US Apartment sizes are shrinking

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classical_Liberal
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US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by classical_Liberal »

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/ameri ... harts-show

This is good news as far as I am concerned. Both from a personal standpoint (more options for small places to live) and a general environmental societal standpoint. It's up there with packaged junk food shrinkage. :D

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Ego
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by Ego »

Well.... you have to consider that more people are living alone so they need less space, which is not a good trend for many reasons.

ducknald_don
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by ducknald_don »

Shrinkflation, I would welcome the same for cars.

zbigi
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by zbigi »

My understanding is that bigger cars are not that much more expensive to make, so the margins on them are juicier. So, sadly, I wouldn't expect cars to get smaller.

jacob
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by jacob »

zbigi wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:14 am
My understanding is that bigger cars are not that much more expensive to make, [...]
Much of the volume behind the "big fiberglass" is just air. To some degree, it's just a fashion trend. Big cars are designed to look imposing from the front. I don't know whether that makes the drivers feel safer, but for pedestrians getting hit on the legs by the hood of a sedan is possibly survivable (break the legs, get thrown up in the air) whereas getting hit on the torso by a five foot tall front hood (with mostly air behind it) is usually lethal (death by impact/crushing the torso). The most sold vehicle in the US now is roughly the same dimensions as a WWII Sherman tank.

The crazy thing is that while cars are growing, parking spaces are not. This means that big people are somewhat struggling to get out of their big vehicles getting pinned between the spaces. What to do? What to do? Another problem is that a family of four with an average weight of 200lbs (not uncommon at all) may actually exceed the axle load on a traditionally sized car and thus need a bigger vehicle.

Tyler9000
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by Tyler9000 »

Ego wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:27 pm
Well.... you have to consider that more people are living alone so they need less space, which is not a good trend for many reasons.
Exactly. I see this as less about housing and more about societal trends.

"Real estate firm RentCafe attributed the plunge in average apartment sizes to an increase in the construction of more studio and one-bedroom units."

Also note that most of the average apartment shrinkage is in the northeast and Pacific Northwest. So people in those areas are being forced into smaller and smaller living spaces partly for shrinkflation reasons and partly because of a possible increase in single person households. Neither of those things are necessarily active choices about housing preferences by the local populations. The cause is something deeper and deserves more reflection.

jacob
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by jacob »

Shrinking apartment sizes also pose another interesting problem: The furniture needs to shrink alongside with it.

We live in a cube-sized 3bd/1.5ba three story house (floors: -1, 0, 1) that's 3x22x22 ft. Built in 1948. Modern "big-ass" furniture simply doesn't fit in any way that would be aesthetically and functionally pleasing. For example, my room is about 8x9 ft with an in-wall closet(*), which incidentally can hold a lot of stuff! I guess it was originally intended to fit a study desk with a chair underneath it and a bed+maybe an end table or an extra chair. The thing is that the desk would have to be <36" wide lest the doors not work. The bed needs to be twin-size or less. The desk chair needs to be able to fit under the [by contemporary standards unusually small] desk when not in use.

(*) It's interesting how US housing designs store stuff in the walls. This is not common in Europe where people use cabinets instead. Caveat: My info might be outdated or too regional? How about Canada or Italy?

And in going with the car comment above, this means that people need to shrink a bit too.

chenda
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by chenda »

Does IKEA and the like adjust the furniture size depending on where its been sold ?

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Seppia
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by Seppia »

jacob wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:04 am
in-wall closet(*)

(*) It's interesting how US housing designs store stuff in the walls. This is not common in Europe where people use cabinets instead. Caveat: My info might be outdated or too regional? How about Canada or Italy?
In Italy it isn't common at all to have in-wall storage, while in Paris for example it's fairly common (in older buildings)
chenda wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:43 am
Does IKEA and the like adjust the furniture size depending on where its been sold ?
The main stuff (IE Malm Kallax, etc) in the USA is the same size as it is in Europe and even HK.
What they will do is have additional sizes that are country specific (ie in HK they would have a 140cm "twin" bed)

mathiverse
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by mathiverse »

jacob wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:04 am
(*) It's interesting how US housing designs store stuff in the walls. This is not common in Europe where people use cabinets instead. Caveat: My info might be outdated or too regional? How about Canada or Italy?
Cabinets are generally used in East Africa too.

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Ego
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by Ego »

jacob wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:04 am
Shrinking apartment sizes also poses another interesting problem: The furniture needs to shrink alongside with it.
Furniture size is a problem here. Particularly bed sizes. People have just gotten used to massive beds. Our building has built-in, roll-out Murphy beds like the one in the photo that are from 1910s. They are double (full) size beds. Most tenants use them for storage and fill the apartment with a massive queen sized bed. Crazy.

Image

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Slevin
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by Slevin »

Here’s the thing, people have gotten a lot bigger since the 1910s as well (sorry that’s not US specific graph but the trend will hold). For example, at 6’2” I literally don’t fit in a full sized bed. Basically my whole feet just hang off it, which is a weirdly unnerving and unpleasant experience for sleeping. Looking at the average weight trend as well (I’m not even heavy for my height, like 190 etc but me and my 100ish lb partner don’t even fit in a full bed together) and accounting for that the bed inflation makes more sense.

chenda
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by chenda »

Yes which why older houses have lower ceilings and doorframes, requiring tall people to duck.

I believe the height increase is largely due to higher protein consumption during gestation and early infancy. Which is why northern Europeans were/are taller than southern Europeans, due to diet differentials.

But we've also got a lot wider which is of course bad.

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Ego
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by Ego »

@Slevin, don't get me started :lol:

A couple of weeks ago I showed an apartment to a petite woman who said she would not take it. She could not use the Murphy because her queen sized mattress would not fit in the bed frame and she was still making payments on it.

One of my pet peeves is that people are made to believe that they need a large, pristine sleep environment to sleep well and are then convinced to buy crazy-expensive things to create that environment, when in reality their problems are either stress, obesity (apnea) or dietary related. Symptom treatment at its finest.

A double bed is 53.5" × 74.5" or 136cm × 189cm so you should fit. I am 6', 165 and I fit perfectly with 5', 100lb Mrs. Ego even though she occupies at least 2/3rds of the bed with her sleeping style that resembles an mma cage fight.

That said, most of my tenants who do not use the Murphy beds are shorter than me and live alone, so no real excuse other than the sleep-hygiene brainwashing. One young couple who does use their Murphy are both quite a bit taller than me. Like us, they love the fact that they can use the room as a living room during the day and then roll out the bed at night.

zbigi
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by zbigi »

The American tendency to pay over a thousand dollar for a bed mattress is fascinating. Here in Poland, nobody pays more than $200-$300 for a matress and they all sleep fine.

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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I'm 5'9" and not skinny, and I shared a 1960s era full size bed with one of my polys who is 6'2" around 210. I also slept in the berth space available in a small camper for a couple months with my "ex" who was 6'1" and around 250, but I was smushed right up against the cold wall in that situation. I once had a boyfriend who was the same height and weight as me and we would sleep in the back of his little jeep on road trips. My general theory would be that there is a direct relationship between length of relationship, percentage of bodies covered by pajamas, and size of bed required for sharing.

My solution for furniture in the tiny attic apartment I currently inhabit is that I pretty much don't have any. A folding picnic table, two kitchen bar stools, and a mattress on the carpet.

chenda
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by chenda »

zbigi wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:47 pm
The American tendency to pay over a thousand dollar for a bed mattress is fascinating. Here in Poland, nobody pays more than $200-$300 for a matress and they all sleep fine.
Ja but folk are tougher out east ;)

loutfard
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by loutfard »

Edit: My original post was not helpful and off-topic. I removed it.
Last edited by loutfard on Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

mathiverse
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by mathiverse »

loutfard wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:08 pm
Based on what Slevin has said about his fitness routine and what he looks like, he is at a healthy body fat percentage. BMI is a good rule of thumb and most people are kidding themselves when they claim to be outliers with respect to BMI, but I don't think that's the issue with Slevin. (Article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/pro ... d=pl-share and related thread: viewtopic.php?t=6798).

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Slevin
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Re: US Apartment sizes are shrinking

Post by Slevin »

@Ego, idk I really feel like I should fit on one too, but I just laid on the one in my other bedroom with my head touching the headboard and my feet hang off, you see?

Image

@louftard
How about we don’t fat shame anybody here as a matter of principle, because it’s entirely unhelpful and rude? Let me know your line of logic is from shaming somebody about their weight is that will end up helping anyone or moving a conversation in a positive way. Saying “good intentions” at the end doesn’t somehow cancel out everything rude you’ve just said. Yea, I’m within 5 pounds of overweight, also known as “in the healthy weight range” so congrats on calling out that I’m a healthy weight?

@mathiverse, thanks, I really appreciate the support!

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