ERE level of spending

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Salathor
Posts: 394
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:49 am
Location: California, USA

Re: ERE level of spending

Post by Salathor »

That day care is a large expense. My wife stays home with the girls (well, we both do now that I'm FIRE), but it's important to keep in mind that any work you or your wife does (the one who would be a stay-at-home parent) has two additional costs--not being with your kids and $11,000. That alone would shave your expenses to closer to $45,000, which would be a nice.

Groceries, as mentioned above, can be cut pretty good too. I think this is the one that maybe shows the "fat" in your budget most clearly. We're also a family of 4 and we spent $4,003 over the last twelve months on groceries, and that's after a concerted effort to buy more organic, local, etc. That's nearly a 33% reduction for you guys. I don't mention this to brag or anything, but just to show that there is significant assumed overhead that you guys could be shaving--does that exist in your discretionary/house cleaning/other services you may think are essential?

ertyu
Posts: 2893
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: ERE level of spending

Post by ertyu »

Salathor wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:43 pm
That day care is a large expense. My wife stays home with the girls (well, we both do now that I'm FIRE), but it's important to keep in mind that any work you or your wife does (the one who would be a stay-at-home parent) has two additional costs--not being with your kids and $11,000. That alone would shave your expenses to closer to $45,000, which would be a nice.
Depending on the field of work, staying home with the kids might mean pausing one's career track and incurring the opportunity cost of missing promotions and derailing the course of one's income stream. Happened to me for covid, the job I found after I took my break pays less than the job I left and since then it's been difficult to get back up to my old level of pay. New employers want to offer a margin above your last pay, not current market rates. Ultimately, the right decision is personal.

kawaivf1
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2023 11:26 am

Re: ERE level of spending

Post by kawaivf1 »

Salathor wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:43 pm
That day care is a large expense. My wife stays home with the girls (well, we both do now that I'm FIRE), but it's important to keep in mind that any work you or your wife does (the one who would be a stay-at-home parent) has two additional costs--not being with your kids and $11,000. That alone would shave your expenses to closer to $45,000, which would be a nice.

Groceries, as mentioned above, can be cut pretty good too. I think this is the one that maybe shows the "fat" in your budget most clearly. We're also a family of 4 and we spent $4,003 over the last twelve months on groceries, and that's after a concerted effort to buy more organic, local, etc. That's nearly a 33% reduction for you guys. I don't mention this to brag or anything, but just to show that there is significant assumed overhead that you guys could be shaving--does that exist in your discretionary/house cleaning/other services you may think are essential?
That's only two days a week for one kid :shock: ...

My wife could watch my daughter since she works 4-12pm, but thinks having her socialize with other kids, and get the mental break is worth the added temporary expense. I tried to convince her otherwise, but I can see why she would want some down time.

Groceries could definitely be cut.. I eat a pretty spartan diet. My kids consume fruit like it is going out of style which tend to be expensive. Havent figured out how to cut that down.. Any good ideas? I try to limit packaged products as well, but not always successfully. Definitely fat there.

Frita
Posts: 942
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:43 pm

Re: ERE level of spending

Post by Frita »

My kids consume fruit like it is going out of style which tend to be expensive. Havent figured out how to cut that down. Any good ideas?
1. Substitute vegetables, and a small amount of dip if necessary to get them to eat, for some of the fruit.
2. Train them to portion out servings of fruit (Kids need less than adults.) and buy loss leaders at the store. Involve them in figuring out which to buy.
3. Grow your own fruit/veg (and/or obtain locally when in season) and process/freeze. Involve your kids in this too.

Be mindful of appreciating what you have and the value your time/money buys. Some things may be worth the investment; other stuff, not so much.*

Another thing I would suggest is reconsidering your expectations. Experiment with doing a little less or substituting a less expensive or free option.*

*Discuss this stuff as a family. Model. Practice. Consider what a gift this could be to your kids, plus they would not have to unlearn to relearn.

kawaivf1
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2023 11:26 am

Re: ERE level of spending

Post by kawaivf1 »

ertyu wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:55 pm
Depending on the field of work, staying home with the kids might mean pausing one's career track and incurring the opportunity cost of missing promotions and derailing the course of one's income stream. Happened to me for covid, the job I found after I took my break pays less than the job I left and since then it's been difficult to get back up to my old level of pay. New employers want to offer a margin above your last pay, not current market rates. Ultimately, the right decision is personal.
Ultimately we are trying to find the right balance of work and life since we have yet to hit FI. She likes her job (RN), but obviously prefers having the option to work, and loves our kids, but also free time. We have considered her going per-diem, and some other options, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. Reducing work would also reduce our transportation expenses since she does home care which requires driving with a mileage reimbursement.

In the end we can still have a relatively high savings rate, and some day care so it was something I was OK with as long as it wasn't going to last forever. So far I've tried to focus on the areas of the budget that will always be there (housing, transportation, groceries, etc). She will be happier if I say if we do X, and it will lower how long it will take to reach FI by X..she will typically be more receptive.

Salathor
Posts: 394
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:49 am
Location: California, USA

Re: ERE level of spending

Post by Salathor »

kawaivf1 wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:11 pm
Groceries could definitely be cut.. I eat a pretty spartan diet. My kids consume fruit like it is going out of style which tend to be expensive. Havent figured out how to cut that down.. Any good ideas? I try to limit packaged products as well, but not always successfully. Definitely fat there.
The packaged foods are probably the primary issue. We started really cutting when I realized that we should shop primarily by comparing kcal per $ after accounting for variety/health.

Basically, we get almost 100% of our calories from bulk staples--specifically, short grain brown rice, whole wheat flour, and a variety of beans and lentils. We then add a lot of nuts (peanuts because they're cheap and I like them and cashews) also bought in bulk from costco for the fats and proteins. We supplement with other bulk fats (organic EV olive oils) and animal proteins (mostly milk and eggs, OCCASIONALLY chicken. We aren't vegetarian but we eat meat rarely). After that, we then add as much greens and veggies as we can eat. The girls also like fruit, but I think it has too much sugar to eat all the time. They can eat an entire bell pepper (I know, it's really a fruit) and cucumber in a couple of sittings between them, though.

The main goal is to buy NOTHING that costs more than 1000 kcal per dollar (rough guide, some things may come in at 750 or 800 and be fine, like beans) unless it has a specific nutrient goal. This is where greens come in. They are essential to the diet, so we buy them. Packaged food is never essential, and it is almost never cheaper than the 1000:1$ ratio, so we don't buy it.

When it was just my wife and I, the goal was $4 per person per day. Basically you should be able to meet all of your calorie, protein, and fiber needs for $1-$2 per day per person (staple grains and beans). Then supplement that with another $1-2 in greens, fats, dairy, etc. The kids don't need to cost the same $4 because their calorie needs are fewer (but you still want them to eat greens and fats and stuff), so they probably weigh in more at like $3.

It takes more work at home, but you will definitely be saving money, eating more healthy, and making less waste!

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