Reddit Advice on Coping with Salaryman Work

[AnalyticalEngine]

Instead of theory vs action, this discussion seems to have drifted more to "does this person have an internal hangup preventing them from living their life to the fullest?" Really everything is just a tool in a toolbox. Mental difficulties can cause the inability to select and use a tool at the appropriate time and instead lead to projection or externalization of the problem, but this isn't cause by theory a priori. People get locked into mental boxes due to past negative experiences and a lack of coping mechanisms, and unraveling that usually requires therapy, careful awareness, and developing alternative coping mechanisms, all of which are both internal and external shifts.

[oldbeyond]

I think in practice, it’s rarely one or the other. Theory is merely a game if you never act on it; action always requires some form of framework to inform what actions to take. I don’t think anyone is saying that you should take random actions and see what happens? Going to the gym or learning to fix your car or interviewing are chosen because it is theorized that they would improve the situation.

I’m certainly too attracted to theory by temperament. But I’m also very thankful for having learned about a lot of theories that make me more insightful or effective or help me remain sane.

I work as a structural engineer. I always respect the practical know-how that good tradespeople have. It can be absolutely essential and has saved us eggheads many a time. But I’m also quite happy that those guys aren’t tasked with doing the design work, data management and abstract theorizing that is needed to build complex structures.

[oldbeyond]

I personally started out as a looser out of choice, having internalized the dim views of work life that can be found in a lot of corners in the FIRE-sphere. Merely passing the time and counting the days to freedom. That did not work for me. I guess I’ve been somewhat clueless at times and spent to much energy on pointless tasks and bought in to the smoke and mirrors of sociopaths. But mostly I’ve looked for things to master and spent as much time as I’ve dared on them. I also spoken up about things I dislike and stated my preferences clearly. It’s made work easier and more rewarding.

Whether that’s a useful strategy or not probably depends on where you are in the global economic pyramid. If you’re Cal Newport, congrats. If you’re barely holding on to your cleaning job, then we’re sorry.

[ertyu]

Burying them under a pile of theory compounds the problem and often provides them excuses why they cannot change. Baby steps forward.

... i think we are talking about different things.

theory is cerebral -- an intellectualization. it is absolutely possible to be telling yourself stories about your fears without actually getting over any of them.

whereas actually sitting with and knowing your fear (or whatever there your bullshit is) is experiential. you can actually, physically sense shit unwind in your body and this is accompanied with a realization like, "aaaah so that's what i was scared of." as you know your fear, it changes, and you change. and action steps that used to be impossible become possible.

[loutfard]

I personally started out as a looser out of choice, having internalized the dim views of work life that can be found in a lot of corners in the FIRE-sphere. Merely passing the time and counting the days to freedom. That did not work for me. I guess I’ve been somewhat clueless at times and spent to much energy on pointless tasks and bought in to the smoke and mirrors of sociopaths. But mostly I’ve looked for things to master and spent as much time as I’ve dared on them. I also spoken up about things I dislike and stated my preferences clearly. It’s made work easier and more rewarding.

Whether that’s a useful strategy or not probably depends on where you are in the global economic pyramid. If you’re Cal Newport, congrats. If you’re barely holding on to your cleaning job, then we’re sorry.

Accurate observations on internalising the dim views of work life in much of the FIRE-sphere. These dim views extend to many working people without a FIRE perspective. That must be even more depressing, in that fun is being equated to spending. Free fun, let alone productive fun, is hardly seen as an option. Look at Caleb Hammer's youtube channel for example. His message is you have to earn a lot and to straighten a suboptimal financial situation, and "you cannot have any fun", meaning no unnecessary spending.

I personally find quite a bit of meaning in my full time employment. Frugality comes to me quite naturally. FIRE inspired me to deepen my financial knowledge by dangling the sweet early retirement carrot. It works for me despite the dim views of work life of many in the FIRE space.

ERE ties things together for me in a much more holistic way. Frugality, financial agency, generalist skills and ecology form the core of a system full of positive feedback cycles. That very much works for me. It also gives me direction picking a side gig. FIRE would simply tell me to get back into IT. ERE suggests I might want to look wider, at things like privacy aware home automation, bicycles, stage work or ecological construction.