ERE Fest 2023: Ft Dirtbag

[Crusader]

It was requested that we give some constructive feedback. I have a few comments (mostly nitpicking, really):
-> I really appreciated someone explaining to me how to use the toilet in person. I don't know if everyone got that explanation, but had I not gotten it, I wouldn't have known what to do with the sawdust, etc. I think that one person should definitely be in charge of giving that explanation to people. Failing that, a laminated paper with instructions might be good.
-> I liked the lights that showed us where to go at night. However, I wasn't sure how to get to the Serenity area from the house area the first time at night and I had to get someone to help me. I think that one extra light that you can see from the main (car) road to know where to make the left turn would be great. (there was one on the side path, but only when you walk up to it.
-> I would have liked to see more workshops. There were so many potential ones that din't make it in. Maybe one more workshop per day? Or maybe Friday could be made into a workshop day?
-> I didn't quite grasp how bad the LA traffic is during rush-hour. Maybe put that as a disclaimer in the "getting to/from" instructions.
-> We made a premature turn on the way to the house (it got us to the well). Maybe a sign saying "keep going" would be good here.
-> If possible, the solar shower should be higher.

[mathiverse]

I had a wonderful time at ERE fest this past weekend! I am really grateful for AxelHeyst and his second in command, Quadalupe, for making the weekend fantastic. Thank you Seppia for paying for the food even though you weren't able to make the weekend. Also everyone who gave workshops, bravo! Everyone really pitched in and made it a great time.

I enjoyed meeting everyone and chatting with everyone. I'm another introvert turned extrovert at this thing.

I think that one person should definitely be in charge of giving [the] explanation [on how to use the compost toilet] to people. Failing that, a laminated paper with instructions might be good.

Also regarding the outdoor toilet, people should be asked to add sawdust even if they only peed! The sawdust keeps the toilet from smelling only if it's the top, clean layer in the bucket. This is different from when you're peeing in a normal indoor toilet where you don't need to flush if you only pee. I hope that goes on the laminated instructions and in the script for face to face instructions.

Here are the slides from the geopolitics talk: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/ ... sp=sharing.

The talk was based largely on the books "Prisoners of Geography" by Tim Marshall and "The End of the World is Just the Beginning" by Peter Zeihan. Happy to answer questions and to receive constructive feedback via PM from anyone who saw it live or anyone who looks at the slides!

[Crusader]

Hmmmm. Would we not be able to instruct people to just not pee in the toilet (even if they don't pee standing up)?

[mathiverse]

There is no reason to restrict peeing in the compost toilet. People just need to add sawdust whether they pee only or pee and poo. That will keep the experience more generally pleasurable by reducing incidences of a smelly toilet.

It's not a huge deal if someone forgets sawdust, the next person can add it if the smell bothers them. But I think some people were unaware of the difference in usage compared to an indoor toilet, so calling it out would likely reduce that mistake.

I'll also note that at least one person didn't realize you are allowed to pee in the compost toilet. So adding the mention about using the sawdust after every use will also reinforce that you can use the compost toilet for number one and number two.

[Crusader]

But if you suggest that people don't pee in the compost, it we will use less sawdust and it will fill up less quickly. To me, that's reason enough.

[avalok]

Haha, we have a bucket-based compost toilet at home and it fills up pretty quickly with just the two of us. There were how many of you? I don't want to know the turnaround time on that thing

[mathiverse]

This weekend I only had to change the toilet twice a day since the group spent most of the time by the indoor toilet. The toilet was not full when I would do either cleaning, but it was more full in the mornings than the evenings. I changed it in the morning after coffee, but before lunch and before dark in the evening. I would check it around mid-afternoon as well. If people were heading to the toilet and finding it too full to use, then I was unaware. I hope that didn't happen! As far as I know, I was the only person changing the buckets from Friday to Sunday.

If the outdoor toilet gets used a lot more next time (such as if more activities were held near the shade structure or more people camped over there), then maybe we will need to find ways to reduce usage such as by telling people not to pee in it. On the other hand, if the toilet starts filling quickly or if we have a lot more people, maybe a better solution is adding another outdoor toilet rather than telling people to pee elsewhere.

However, if the set up remains the similar to this year with most time spent by the indoor toilet, it would be fine to trade off a faster filling bucket for less of a smell by requesting that people add sawdust after they pee. It may not increase the rate of cleaning at all if all else was held equal based on my experience this weekend.

With all that said, I wonder if a useful thing for next time would also be a posted list of who is responsible for what and instructions to contact the owner of the task rather than AxelHeyst if there are issues. I told some people to let me know if there was something wrong with the toilets rather than telling AxelHeyst, but I'm sure I forgot to tell everyone and perhaps AxelHeyst was dealing with compost toilet troubles I was unaware of.

[grundomatic]

A separate fruit-tree urinal might be a good way to retain all that nitrogen but reduce the amount of labor input needed. This assumes such a tree is in the plans at Ft. Dirtbag.

[mathiverse]

Great idea, grundomatic. I suppose that I'm not opposed to peeing elsewhere and that seems like a nice solution.

I am opposed to banning peeing in the compost bucket (seems particularly inconvenient for people who do not pee while standing). I am also opposed to the status quo of peeing in the bucket without putting sawdust on it since it made the bucket cleaning chore and the bucket usage less pleasant for no benefit this past weekend. However, it wasn't a huge problem, as I said, so perhaps it doesn't need to be solved and perhaps I'm underestimating the costs of encouraging people to use the sawdust on their pee in the future.

[mooretrees]

For our compost toilet, we use a simple urine diverter. Nothing fancy and keeps the sawdust usage down. Smell isn’t any different imo.

[AxelHeyst]

Yep, just adding my $.02:

• Pee is gold. I want it.
• Enough sawdust/cover material keeps the smell down.
• I agree it's not cool to tell everyone to pee in the bushes, for a lot of reasons.
• Separate urinals for all equipment types is a good idea. It'd go to the same place, the humanure pile, unless it was a tree/planter style urinal in which case it'd get used right there.
• By next time I'll have more bucket toilets.
• I'll also have clear instructions and a tutorial.

[avalok]

How many buckets did you have in rotation? I know Joseph Jenkins says in the Humanure Handbook that you can queue up full buckets to save time when emptying and cleaning. Do it once and do it in bulk, but this requires a good stock of buckets if there are plenty of people using it. Not sure if this would have helped/been appropriate with the current temperatures?

[mathiverse]

There were two buckets in rotation. One in use and the other on stand-by next to the compost toilet (once it was cleaned and dried). Perhaps more buckets in rotation would be appropriate in the future when there are more attendees. This weekend, the stand-by bucket was never needed before the next cleaning.

[avalok]

Wow, sounds like you were really on the ball then mathiverse, props to you.

[theanimal]

I'll be curious to see what develops from this event. Personally, I would like to leverage this past weekend into spending more time with forumites in real life.

Also, consider it tentative for now, but Mrs. Animal and I are thinking ERE fest: Arctic AK edition, June 2025.

[grundomatic]

I'll be curious to see what develops from this event. Personally, I would like to leverage this past weekend into spending more time with forumites in real life.

I also was thinking about how to maintain, or preferably strengthen, at least some of the connections made over the weekend. It really is a drag that we are all separated so much geographically.

[ertyu]

Quadalupe and I plan to develop the format of the session a bit further and iterate a process/workflow for learning chapter 5. We think a lot of people read about reverse fishbones and WoGs but don't every really attempt it and so leave insights on the table. We think there are a few fairly accessible exercises that people can play with to generate insights and develop more rubust systems thinking in their day to day. We'll of course be posting about this as we go.

This would be cool. We did try in an mmg a while back, but it fillzed out. Coming back to it after this new experience might be fun

[ertyu]

Here are the slides from the geopolitics talk: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/ ... sp=sharing.

The talk was based largely on the books "Prisoners of Geography" by Tim Marshall and "The End of the World is Just the Beginning" by Peter Zeihan. Happy to answer questions and to receive constructive feedback via PM from anyone who saw it live or anyone who looks at the slides!

Many thanks!

[AxelHeyst]

Also, consider it tentative for now, but Mrs. Animal and I are thinking ERE fest: Arctic AK edition, June 2025.

I just blocked out all of May and June 2025 on my calendar to be safe.

[jacob]

I'm surprised and pleased to see that the workshop idea worked out well. Previous attempts (e.g. the Junta or arranging an ERE meetup around a single theme) have failed. Perhaps this is something that requires several days in order for it to work. It could also be that MMG experience helped as a catalyst?

One suggestion for future fests would be to include more detailed travel information. Conference organizers would have a page detailing which airport(s) to fly into, which hotels/motels they recommended, and which bus/taxi/train number to take from the airport to the hotel/motel. I realize that this may all be null and void in a world accustomed to using google maps and booking motels with an app on the fly, but for planning purposes (those of us over 40) it would be nice to have a better idea than "drive west for 5 days until you hit the Rockies and then turn left just before Old Man Johnson's haystack, continuing until you see a cactus".

I'm kinda curious how the air travelers solved the tent/sleeping bag issue? Did you bring it or rough it?