GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Anything to do with the traditional world of get a degree, get a job as well as its alternatives
AxelHeyst
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GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by AxelHeyst »

Q: I want to organize my life better, I think GTD might be useful and that I should give it a go. Yeah?
A: Yeah.

Q: I think GTD is a scam and is a waste of my time.
A: You are correct.

Q: The point of GTD is to be good at being really busy, right?
A: No. It's to inhabit a state of relaxed alertness, get things out of your head that have no business clogging up your cognitive bandwidth, and make space in your life for the things that truly matter for you.

Q:Oh. I thought GTD was like for corporate executives and tech bros, and it's part of hustle culture?
A: It is, in the same way that ERE is just extreme FIRE. Most people use GTD to simply raise their ceiling of near-burnout levels of productivity in their lives, which makes them better wage slaves but worse citizens and neighbors. 'True' or 'deep' or 'advanced' or 'enlightened' GTD, however, is about mind like water. Do with it what you will.

Q: GTD is useless if you don't have a j*b, right? So the only utility of GTD is for people who are in the accumulation phase?
A: I value my GTD system more now that I don't have a real job, because it helps me organize my post-w*rk and arguably much more complex life. I have a lot more different things going on in my life now that I don't have a j*b hoovering up all my time. GTD helps me keep my freedom-to trajectory straight.

Q: I think I'll just do less stuff instead.
A: That's fine.

--

I've been GTD'ing since 2011 or so. I've used Evernote, Standard Notes, and three different paper systems as my primary GTD platform. At the moment I use Standard Notes with some elements living on paper. More on that later.

There is one main thing to know about GTD: everyone requires multiple attempts to habituate their system. Everyone 'fails' at GTD multiple times. No one who has habituated GTD that I know of was able to pick it up and run with it without falling out of the practice several times when they were learning it. Expect it. If you take falling off as a sign of permanent failure, you'll permanently fail. Just take it as part of the learning curve.

Here's the explanation for why everyone fails multiple times:
  • People who are trying to implement GTD are either doing so because they are currently at the ceiling of their cognitive ability to handle their life-system, or see hitting that limit soon. They have hit the limits of their current organizational system, which may be "I email myself reminders" to "there are post it notes everywhere" to "I don't know, I just try to remember stuff, I guess."
  • The promise of GTD is it is a system that requires less cognitive bandwidth to maintain a much larger and more sophisticated life-system. It promises doing more stuff while consuming less cognitive bandwidth. It promises to hold things for you, so you don't have to store everything in your head.
  • However, GTD is a new system that requires an investment of cognitive bandwidth to spin up.
  • So what happens is that people start GTD at some point where they've caught enough of a break to put some cognitive bandwidth to it.
  • Inevitably, they soon hit a crunch. A deadline at work, a surprise in the home life, whatever. The combined demands of the deadline/surprise PLUS the initial cognitive bandwidth demand of GTD exceeds the individual's limit. They can't drop the deadline, but they can drop GTD. They fall back to their old system that they don't have to spend any cognitive bandwidth on. Out come the post it notes.
  • This is fine! This is inevitable!
  • Once you catch some breathing space again, pick the GTD system back up. Look at what happened and see if you can diagnose what was 'too much' about it. What was your weakness? What was feeling out of control? Work on that element. Then keep going.
  • This will happen a couple times probably. It's part of the learning curve. Just get back up, evaluate, improve, and move on.
Eventually, with enough practice, the GTD practice sinks mostly into your subconscious and you just do it without realizing you are 'doing' GTD. At some point, you won't be able to NOT ask what the next action is whenever there's a project afoot, and that's when GTD is no longer a system but just how you do stuff.


There are two ways of getting started with GTD:
1) Read the book > Find an implementation to copy
2) Find an implementation to copy > read the book

Either is fine. The nice thing about (2) is that when you read the book, you'll have a bunch of "oh thaaat's what they meant" and "oh that's why you do X". If you do (1), the book can be somewhat abstract.

The bad thing about doing (2) is that you'll screw it up and modify things based on what seems to make sense to you, and you'll be violating very sensible principles, and you won't know why your system is failing you. (It's because you're failing your system).

If you do (2), I recommend that you start reading the book within a month or two of your implementation. Otherwise you run the risk of grooving bad habits.

If you do (1), I recommend you read the book as quickly as possible, skimming sections that don't grab your attention, and then immediately go find an implementation. Then read the book again, slower.

Where to find Implementations
  • The GTD website has implementation packages for various platforms that you can buy.
    The Secret Weapon
  • Youtube, I assume.
  • Google around and go with whatever appeals to you. Different implementations will make sense to different people. Some really popular systems make zero sense to me. I've spent hours explaining my system to friends and got nowhere. YMMV.

How I learned GTD
  • I read the book.
  • I made something using paper and maybe Excel.
  • It failed miserably.
  • I found The Secret Weapon for Evernote.
  • I followed the instructions.
  • All of a sudden GTD 'clicked'.
  • I failed a couple times and dropped it, each time picking it back up.
  • Evernote had a big update that made it basically useless for someone who isn't constantly bathed in the EM field of cell towers and wifi. I switched to Standard Notes, and am happy with it.
My GTD System
My system is basically just The Secret Weapon, with my own idiosyncracies and modifications that work for me. There's a lot of canonical GTD stuff I don't use. For example I don't really use context (most people don't these days).

Image
FullRes.

How to name things is a big deal in GTD. You'll notice that my project is called "Add latches to NW Window", not "Window latches". What about window latches? How will I know when project "Window latches" is done?

How to name and think of Next Actions is a big deal as well. "Add latches" isn't a next action. It's a project. A project is anything that requires more than one action to accomplish. A Next Action is something like "Look for latch hardware in that box in the shop." The action after that might be "Look at the NE window and measure the bits of wood I used to get the dimensions for the latch correctly."

Image
FullRes.


If you aren't doing a Weekly Review, you aren't doing GTD.
You can find WR templates online and in the book. This is mine:
---------------------------------------------------
[Date + Location]

### Mindsweep and Reflection on the Past Week: What has your attention?

>

*Triggers: What's been on your mind that you haven't written down? What have you been procrastinating on? What inconvenient thoughts/dreams/desires have you been attempting to reject/repress?*

### Process and Review: Get Clear
Process all inboxes to zero:
- [ ] Personal Email
- [ ] Journal entries
- [ ] Any loose papers
- [ ] artstation
- [ ] news
- [ ] ereforum
- [ ] Signal
- [ ] Untagged
- [ ] Check $ accounts

### Get Current: THIS IS THE CORE OF THE WR PRACTICE. DO IT.
- [ ] Review Project List. Get eyes on (at minimum) every project and AOF.
- [ ] Review/Update Next Action, Soon, and Later lists.
- [ ] Review previous week's calendar data. Anything still an open loop?
- [ ] Review upcoming calendar (short and long term). Any communication that needs to happen, Next Actions created?
- [ ] Review waiting for list

### Plan
- [ ] Review [long-term objectives document], quarterly plan.
- [ ] Write out weekly plan in timeblock planner. What is the most important and deep stuff for me to do this week, that will contribute to my flourishing and long term vision for my life?

**Get Creative**
- [ ] Review my new Manifesto, and my Personal Mythology/Spark image folder.
- [ ] Scroll the internet, looking for sources of new and good information to read throughout the week. Follow links from Farnam Street, james clear, solarpunk people, twitter, medium, etc.

- [ ] Write: What do you want out of life? And what are you going to do about it this coming week? What do you want in 5 years, 10 years, when you're 60? What are you doing about it? Do you actually think you're making progress? If not, what are you going to do about it? Is there any bullshit in your life you can cut out, perma-ignore, delegate, ghost, or next? Anything causing you grief that you don't need? What minimum 1 wild cool thing are you going to do this coming week?
.
----------------------------------------------------

Some Resources
  • Allen's second book, Ready for Anything, is very good. I recommend reading it no later than about the six month mark. It helps make the big picture make more sense.
  • I haven't listened to it in a long time, but the GTD Podcast was good for picking up solid hacks, ways of thinking about my system, and just maintaining general stoke for keeping my GTD system strong.
  • David Allen was on the Stoa. Twice.
..

I couldn't find a dedicated GTD thread on the forum, although you can't search for just 'GTD' so maybe there is one. At any rate, may this thread be a place for general GTD discussion, questions, and resources for ERE folk who are into GTD.

AxelHeyst
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by AxelHeyst »

The core principle of GTD is "Your brain is for having ideas, not for holding them."

GTD is just a bunch of principles for how to get ideas out of your head into a system that you trust. If you don't trust the system, your brain will hold on to them. You want your brain free of the bandwidth required to hold ideas... so you can have more ideas, and put more of your brain towards the things you want to be spending you attention on.

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Sclass
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by Sclass »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:42 pm
The core principle of GTD is "Your brain is for having ideas, not for holding them."
I didn’t know this was a thing. Just read the David Allen Wikipedia. That is really cool.

I’ve worked in several manufacturing outfits. One in particular was like this. The owner always preached “because I don’t want to think.” Meaning he didn’t want to tie up his brain on the day to day ops. So we built some awesome Kaizen systems to manage our process with less brainwork. Combinations of paper, software and hard tooling to allow us to dumb down while still making a complex product. We efficiently ran the place on half the people and money compared with the industry standard. By design philosophy.

Another mantra of his was “we seek to manage complexity.” We had made some complex machines and it was impossible to carry many of the details in our heads. So we used digital and physical records, process books, manufacturing rules and factory automation to help our feeble minds. The goal was to not drown in details but rather make systems that handled that for us automatically. Ultimately we could be more efficient and do more productive work.

We only have so much intellectual budget. It needs to be utilized efficiently. Especially for the feeble minded.

People either get it or they don’t. I’ve been told everything from “wow that’s really smart” to “damn you really don’t like to work.”

In retirement I’ve used the same technique to chump out and be lazy. My whole life is on autopilot by design .

Huh…David Allen, the heroin addict from Cal Berkeley. I was guessing he was a Kaizen black belt.

Crusader
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by Crusader »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:22 pm
The GTD website has implementation packages for various platforms that you can buy.
^ I can't recommend these enough (https://store.gettingthingsdone.com/set ... -s/107.htm). I am on my 2nd attempt at trying to implement GTD, and they have really helped (definitely worth the $10). The first time round, I got bored of the book and just never even started to implement it properly. I also seem to like learning from the top down, as opposed to bottom up.

Other resources I used were:

macg
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by macg »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:22 pm
For example I don't really use context (most people don't these days).
I'm not sure I agree with this ... I've used GTD since it first came into existence, and contexts are important.

I would definitely agree with the statement that the original contexts don't necessarily apply. Even when I first started, I only used a subset of the contexts, mainly because many of them were based around physical setups that didn't exist for me, even back then. And contexts don't have to follow the original list or any list, you should be creating ones that are useful for your system.

But contexts are basically just filters. So for example, I have a context @boss for things I need to specifically talk to with my boss. #shopping for things that I need to shop for (I use that list for online and in person). Granted, I only have maybe 6 contexts/filters, but I still have them.

I think if your next actions list is not very large, I can see not having contexts ... But DA thinks most people should have 100 to 200 next actions at any given time (number likely based on a typical working person).

If you don't mind paying for an application for GTD, I highly recommend https://facilethings.com (no affiliation or rewards for me for saying that). I've been using that for the past couple of years and it's been great. But my work reimburses me for it, so I don't have to do any cost benefit analysis for choosing it lol.

I love this thread, and I will post more details about my history and usage of GTD in the next week. Thanks!

AxelHeyst
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by AxelHeyst »

@macg good points, I actually agree with you in retrospect. Contexts are important, and I've no idea what 'most' people do actually. In fact you can see the main context I use in my first screenshot, @internet. I spend a fair amount of time outside of internet access, so being able to scan my tasks that require internet when I happen to be at it is useful. I had a @gf context.

And while I don't use a @shopping tag, I do have a pocket-sized notebook where I put everything I need next time I go into town, because I dislike using my phone while I'm out. The notebook is part of my of GTD system. (Also, for food shopping, I don't use a list at all, I just have a few heuristics).

When I was working, 100-200 NAs sounds about right. I have 28 NAs right now. I should probably have a few more if I had my system really tight - but it also depends on how you count them. I tend to make the subject line of a note the Next Action, and if I have them in my head I'll dump the follow-on actions in the note body. As I complete actions, I bump actions up into the subject line. It also depends on what your brain holds on to. If your brain isn't holding on to it, there's nothing to capture. I have several projects or areas of focus that for whatever reason I think about when I'm doing it, and I don't think about it when I'm not, so there are no NAs for it.

shelob
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by shelob »

I just searched google for "site:forum.earlyretirementextreme.com gtd" and had a few hits, from discussion of gtd in journals and such.

Thank you for starting the thread.

ETA:

Apple-based GTD: here
Part-timing to FI:here
AnalyticalEngine's journal:here
AxelHeyst's journal: here, here
Last edited by shelob on Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ertyu
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by ertyu »

I watched a couple of GTD videos on youtube. Most of them focus on explaining the system or on explaining how to set up whatever software you use to implement it. I have a question that's a bit different: how do you personally implement this behaviorally? You understand the system, you have your chosen app/notebook/etc, how do you then go about practicing the system as you go through your life?

macg
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by macg »

ertyu wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:14 pm
I watched a couple of GTD videos on youtube. Most of them focus on explaining the system or on explaining how to set up whatever software you use to implement it. I have a question that's a bit different: how do you personally implement this behaviorally? You understand the system, you have your chosen app/notebook/etc, how do you then go about practicing the system as you go through your life?
The key for me has always been capturing everything. If you don't, when I don't, then I can't trust the system. So then, I'm in the store and I pull up my #shopping context to shop, buy what I need, then get home and remember something else I forgot about - something I didn't capture. That's a failed system, that'll cause the "stress" GTD is supposed to be relieving.

So it's imperative that however you collect (capture) things, make it simple and make it accessible. Some have an actual notebook, many use their phone in some way, it doesn't matter - as long as it's some method that is simple for you to use.

Currently for me it's an app on my phone. 99% of the time, that's how I'll capture something. The other 1% might be when I think of a full project that has many pieces (next actions) to it, at that point I usually grab a pen and paper and map it all out, and transfer it to my digital system later. After all the years of me doing GTD, this has become second nature for me.

As for day-to-day usage, actually doing the "next actions", that's also ingrained. I know I can look at my list, decide on my context (am I shopping? am I working? do I want to work on a project? do I want to make some calls?), and just pick one of the next actions to do.

I hope this gives some insight, please let me know if you have any questions or want more details.

ertyu
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by ertyu »

macg wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:32 am
I hope this gives some insight, please let me know if you have any questions or want more details.
Thank you macg, this is exactly the info i was looking for. I assume by now you sort as you capture? Or do you have a dedicated time for sorting

AxelHeyst
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by AxelHeyst »

+1 what macg said. Habituating capture *the moment the thought occurs to you* is maybe the foundation of GTD practice. Your attention will be attuned to noticing thoughts. It's like there's now a routine in my head that's always asking 'should I capture this?'

Since thoughts occur at any time, for me, I rarely sort (organize) when I capture. I'll be on a walk, I'll capture in my app, and the note will be by default in a note inbox, to be sorted later. I trust that all unsorted thoughts go there.

Often I'll sort organically when I'm in my system, but if not, *everything gets sorted at least once a week during the weekly review*. The WR is maybe the second most critical practice. All inboxes go to zero, everything gets organized.

This is why I can capture and then not worry about it, because I trust that that thought will be unsorted for AT LONGEST until my next WR.

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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I sometimes poke fun at GTD, but I integrated a "lite" version of the system a number of years ago. I recently did a re-boot of the system, and realized that I don't have the problem of holding too much stuff in my head and constantly fretting about it, but my powers of procrastination are astounding. For instance, within my recent project Fall Cleaning, I created the Next Action "Organize second shelf in bathroom", and it stayed on my list of Next Actions for over a month until I finally just chose to delete it. And, I can only slog my way through my current grad school assignments by setting a multitude of 15 minute cycles on my timer.

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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by macg »

ertyu wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:48 am
Thank you macg, this is exactly the info i was looking for. I assume by now you sort as you capture? Or do you have a dedicated time for sorting
I usually don't organize as I capture - as AH said, it's usually random times that things pop in my head. Usually I sort first thing in the morning.

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

I think you guys are way beyond me but I try to use what I think are the basics of gtd. I would like to do more. I try to clear small tasks immediately as they come in and I maintain a list of next steps that I check and work on throughout the day. Are there some obvious improvements I would make next to get to the next level?

OutOfTheBlue
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

Great thread, thanks for the inspiration!

@AH, that weekly review seems pretty solid!

I have tried GTD a few times so far, even bought a specialized software (Everdo) at one point (btw if someone is interested, I can send the license key, since I don't use it anymore).

I agree with Leo Babauta's assessment that "GTD is a series of habit changes. This is the main reason why people fall off the GTD system — it's a bunch of habit changes that are attempted all at once."

On this note, some EREers could find it useful to also check out ZTD (Zen To Done) by that author, as it could help clarify or tweak their own implementation.

"ZTD attempts to address five problems that many people have with GTD. I should note that GTD isn't really flawed, and doesn't really need modification, but everyone is different, and ZTD is a way to customize it to better fit different personality types.

If you've been having trouble with GTD, as great as it is, ZTD might be just for you. It focuses on the habit changes necessary for GTD, in a more practical way, and it focuses on doing, on simplifying, and on adding a simple structure. Read on for more."

The book is available for free at: https://archive.org/details/ZenToDoneTh ... a/mode/1up

Pretty short too!


---

Another point I would like to bring up is the choice of tool for GTD (or ZTD).

Some may prefer using physical notebooks, and there are some specialized apps out there. All suggested ones such as those listed in the official GTD Set Up guides store page (https://store.gettingthingsdone.com/set ... -s/107.htm) should be a good fit.

However, if you have already adopted (or are looking to adopt) one of the new generation note-taking apps for Personal Knowledge Management (PKM), task management, etc. such as Obsidian, Roam Research or Logseq, it could make sense to integrate GTD into these. Everything at the fingertips!

For instance, I personally favor Logseq (free, FOSS, privacy-first), so here is a video on how one could implement GTD in Logseq: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nieOiG8LGa0

This thread gave me motivation to attempt a fuller application of a GTD/ZTD system, with this powerful tool this time around. Will report back if there's interest re using Logseq in this context.

shelob
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by shelob »

@OutOfTheBlue
Great writeup, thank you. I'd be interested in hearing how your Logseq experiment goes.

What made you stop using Everdo/switch to Logseq? Depending on your answer, I might be interested in the license key.

shelob
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by shelob »

@Gilberto de Piento: How consequent are you with collecting? I've been binge-reading GTD the last two days and writing down every little tiny thing that I've accepted even a modicum of responsibility for has already improved my subjective stress level. (I've done the exercises in the book as they came up.)

OutOfTheBlue
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

shelob wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:22 am
@OutOfTheBlue
Great writeup, thank you. I'd be interested in hearing how your Logseq experiment goes.

What made you stop using Everdo/switch to Logseq? Depending on your answer, I might be interested in the license key.
EVERDO AND NEW GENERATION APPS

It is a cross-platform offline-first GTD tool, similar to Nirvana HQ. I appreciated finding an app that works well on Linux and is developed by a single person.

At the time, I think I botched my implementation of GTD primarily because okay, I was capturing everything, but failed at prioritizing and reviewing. I ended up planning, organizing and micro-managing things instead of actually focussing on the important stuff and doing.

As AH said, failing is part of the process. ZTD helped me in that regard.

The tool itself is good if someone wants a pure GTD app. You can download and try it for free first to see if you'd like to use it without limitations.

Today, however, I much prefer to apply such a productivity system within the app that I already use for capturing thoughts, journaling, managing tasks, tracking habits, outlining, time blocking, short/long-form writing, note-taking, research and knowledge management.

The inbox is right there. Having a separate, segregated app feels limiting and redundant (prone to duplication of effort). Especially when compared with how frictionless it can be to write in Logseq.

It is a paradigm shift and takes some getting used to and learning curve, though. Obsidian, which is more widely used, is also a solid solution, and maybe recommended for longer form writing (Logseq shines as an outliner, built around bullet blocks, although there is a document mode to remove bullets for long form). In fact, both can be made to play well together (there are a number of posts that explain how to set them up for this purpose), and both use markdown.

Of course, other apps such as Standard Notes or Amplenote could work great too.

---

ZETTELKASTEN + GTD

On a side note, I am currently reading How to Take Smart Notes: One Simple Technique to Boost Writing, Learning and Thinking by Sonke Ahrens (see the related thread and recommendation by AxelHeyst: viewtopic.php?t=12436.

The title doesn't really make it justice. It is such a great and insightful book (thanks, AH!) that touches more on strategy than pure "technique" (the technique being the Zettelkasten method). It often mentions GTD as well.

In fact, I think that method can be combined with GTD for organizing and doing most of your writing in an app like Obsidian/Logseq.

@Shelob, it may be just what you need to read along with the GTD stuff!

ertyu
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by ertyu »

@OOtB, did you install the mobile app as well? I checked out logseq and there appears to be an integration through github. Is that what you're using to capture?

OutOfTheBlue
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Re: GTD Getting Things Done for ERE People

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

ertyu wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:01 am
@OOtB, did you install the mobile app as well? I checked out logseq and there appears to be an integration through github. Is that what you're using to capture?
Yes, I have the mobile app too. It doesn't support plugins yet but otherwise works pretty well. I use either that or pen and paper when on the go. One could also use the Obsidian mobile app on the same vault/graph.

For syncing, I use the free Syncthing, but yeah, you can also opt for the Git/Github integration among other options (for instance some use Obsidian Sync [paid service, Logseq will probably offer something similar in the future[).

---

Alright, for Logseq,I will report back once I've set my full system up and used it for some time.

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