WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

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AxelHeyst
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by AxelHeyst »

i found a killer app for drawing WoGs: Prezi.com

The ONE feature I want for WoGs is the ability to 'stick' line handles to text boxes. In other words, I want to be able to draw a line between two text boxes, and then I want to be able to move the text box and have that end of the line move with the text box. Prezi does this!! Total game changer!

This is the closest I've gotten to a WoG diagram that isn't total spaghetti, and is I think topologically correct. It's a work in progress, but:

Image
  • Green text are goals/effects.
  • Black text are actions/nodes,
  • Line thickness indicates degree of contribution to the goal (e.g. #nocar has a thick line to VLCOL goal).
  • Red lines are negative effects, so the red line from Ft Dirtbag to qt with friends points to the fact that many of my friends aren't near here. (It doesn't capture the fact that my friends are spread out, and any move closer to them would introduce significant second order effects for other goals like VLCOL, qt with parents, etc. So, home basing out of Ft Dirtbag is as close to pareto optimizing my location as I can figure... but the negative order effect has to be acknowledged so that I can balance it with for example biasing my adv and travels to be with friends.

7Wannabe5
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@AxelHeyst: It's interesting that you have a couple of instances where green text is connected to green text with a flow line. Obviously, "Have FU stash" has passive flow connected to "Generae Incidental $." What is the "OTIFOMS" that "Mountain Jacked" connects to with passive flow?

AxelHeyst
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by AxelHeyst »

I must Obey The Inscrutable Exhortations Of My Soul, OTIEOMS. From a Calvin and Hobbes strip. The OTIEOMS node is there to make sure I don't miss things I enjoy doing just because I super duper love doing them. On a fishbone diagram, it'd be represented by a first order BECAUSE THIS IS AWESOME arrow.

7Wannabe5
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@AxelHeyst:

lol-gotcha. I started again on tracking my daily happiness rating and best moment of the day, and I am attempting to integrate with 2023 WOG renewal. So far, it seems like I enjoy positive one on one interactions with other humans and eating homemade soup quite frequently.

avalok
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by avalok »

@AxelHeyst thanks for sharing. Readability is something I have struggled with when drawings WoGs in the past; yours is easily readable with the key you provided.

candide
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by candide »

I second (or third, or whatever) that it is an excellent format for a WoG drawing.

Thanks for your work on it and then sharing it with us, Axel.

7Wannabe5
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

jacob wrote:Optimism: Focus on adding to the positives and hoping that the negatives don't crush you.
Pessimism: Focus on eliminating negatives and hoping that the positives aid you.
Realism: Rare unicorns doing both.
I was reviewing my (failed) WOGs from July of 2021 this morning, and it occurred to me that jacob's take on pessimism vs. optimism might go a long way towards explaining why some multi-dimensional lifestyle designs are more like unto Novelty Card House of Semi-Ridiculous Schemes than Web of Goals.

avalok
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by avalok »

@7w5 do you mean that optimists kid themselves until the whole thing comes crashing down because a negative did indeed crush them?

jacob
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by jacob »

avalok wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:06 am
@7w5 do you mean that optimists kid themselves until the whole thing comes crashing down because a negative did indeed crush them?
Optimism has a clear survivor bias. Also attribution bias.

7Wannabe5
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

avalok wrote:@7w5 do you mean that optimists kid themselves until the whole thing comes crashing down because a negative did indeed crush them?
Yup.

Also, most rationally-minded folk tend towards a linear or multi-dimensional graph-like perspective on their life. So, I was kind of puzzling out how temperament might still change the shape of the life function() no matter how many dimensions are included in perspective. Somebody with an optimistic temperament is more likely to view/experience their life as more of a wave function. A generalist is more likely to take every looping side path on the trail up mountain or towards sea. Etc.

avalok
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by avalok »

By generalist I presume you mean realist? As in an optimist is the kind of person to worship comparative advantage, whereas the realist may realise the need for contingency goal sets because they acknowledge the catastrophic negative that may crush them eventually.

7Wannabe5
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@avalok:

I was thinking of generalist more in the sense of somebody who changes their college major every 3 months vs. somebody who goes straight through to PhD in same major. Like how some people want to hike right to the beach or up the mountain, and other people are more likely to go side-ways.

candide
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by candide »

When Avalok wrote in a journal response that he had missed the decentralizing FI thread, it made me realize it was possible to miss it, so I am linking here as I agree it is one of the best threads and should be on any syllabus for trying to level up to WL 6 and beyond.

viewtopic.php?t=12663

So, one could say I am centralizing the decentralizing FI thread.

avalok
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by avalok »

One thing I have thought about off the back of that thread is a stressor-as-catalyst. If the WL5-6 barrier is (in part) about going beyond only thinking in terms of financial capital (via comparative advantage), then taking oneself away from the reliable drip feed of FTE could help facilitate the shift because one would be forced to figure out alternative flows. That does however sound drastic, and I do think the advice in the book to keep one's head down during the accumulation phase is sound, but the idea of the stressor does not need to apply to that situation alone. For example, to travel by bike more, sell the car; to cook for less commit to only buying reduced or scavenged. This may seem cavalier, but consider that the downside is known (cost of car, meal composed of bad mix of ingredients) but the upside is not entirely.

candide
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by candide »

I waited until Spring Break from school teaching so I could have time to work on this, but I think we need to retool this thread/group.

Open to other ideas, but here are two options I see:

1) Have someone else take over. Baby+work means I just don't have the time or free attention to do a good job. If anyone feels they have a vision of what this thread/group can be, or should do, I would happily give them the nod.
2) ask admin (Jacob) to move this over to, say "community" or some other category as it does not appear to be a mastermind group. We have some good stuff in the thread, and I think people will add on to it in time, but I still don't see it working as an MMG.

I think the data is in from our experiment; MMGs really need something like a video meeting or discord, or the like. This makes rapid progress possible through more social information, more of a sense of community, and more moments of accountability -- with each in this list flowing from the one before it.

Where that leaves us with the "darknet problem" I cannot say. I started this in response to that discussion, but I don't think is doing all that much heavy lifting as a solution.

Anyway, what are some thoughts?

avalok
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by avalok »

I agree that the thread would be better positioned in a different sub-forum; there's some good stuff in here. I don't really have any suggestions on the darknetting problem (predicament?). After this experiment I am wondering whether the situation is unsolvable (other than relying on members to return to the forum). I don't like how defeatist that feels though.

candide
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by candide »

avalok wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:19 pm
I agree that the thread would be better positioned in a different sub-forum; there's some good stuff in here. I don't really have any suggestions on the darknetting problem (predicament?). After this experiment I am wondering whether the situation is unsolvable (other than relying on members to return to the forum). I don't like how defeatist that feels though.
I think people returning to the forum to share their progress in various projects is the way forward. And I don't see that as all that defeatist. The real work has always outside of the forum, it was just done by individuals spring-boarding off Jacob's work. Now there are people doing the work in adjacent places. If they just report back regularly, then it is the same value-proposition.

The forum is a place to show what is possible, and then for someone like me on a pretty strict internet diet, it filters out news -- giving a higher signal/noise than I know how to find elsewhere.

AxelHeyst
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by AxelHeyst »

Yeah, I think threads are threads, and MMGs are MMGs. You can have a thread about an MMG, reporting on an MMG, but a thread cannot *be* an MMG.

Despite that, I agree that this thread was valuable and insights were had and it was/is worthwhile. But calling it an MMG, in retrospect, wasn't quite right. It's almost more like a "Fixit Log" thread in style.

Mastermind groups are exclusive. It's N people with nonpermeable boundaries having realtime discussions in private.
Threads are non-exclusive. They're ??? people with permeable boundaries (exemplified by the fact that I'm posting here) having asynchronous conversations in public.

candide
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by candide »

I like the idea of a "level-up activities log" although that title seems wordy, but it also seems wrong to shorten it, as it implies people are leveling up with each entry.

I think that is the topic for discussion: what name should we have, whether it is renaming this thread, or starting a new one? (I assume the thread is going to get moved at some point -- when that happens, I'll DM all of the members to try to leave no one out of the loop).

OutOfTheBlue
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Re: WL 5 -> 6 MMMG

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

@Candide, I appreciate your efforts in taking and coordinating this initiative to conduct an MMG through the forums in the wake of the discussion on avoiding darknetting ERE, and while navigating a demanding life period.

So far, the experiment has run through a cycle of gaining and losing momentum (or should I say gumption).

I can't fully wrap my head around this development nor put my finger on a single/simple reason for the prolonged collective silence, but I'm pretty sure this was not for lack of coordination.

I'm not certain there is a definite conclusion here. It may well be that threads are threads and MMGs are something else entirely that needs some private space, as AxelHeyst points out, but even if that were the case, I think there is value to arrive at such an insight through lived experience, especially when group dynamics are involved. We had to try it.

There's this quote from James Clear in Atomic Habits that I found quite fitting (and funny in this context):

You do not rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your systems.

Replace goals with web of goals, and it "clicks".

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THREAD NAME AND WHAT'S NEXT

I'm okay with the suggested name change and to move the thread someplace else. Could also edit the title like so: "Moving from WL 5 to 6" or just drop "MMMG" from the current title.

Maybe it is also a good time to ask whether we would like to create a more canonical MMG out of this or leave it as is and continue from here.

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PERSONALLY

To relate my personal experience, because I cannot speak for anyone else:

As I have already expressed this, participating has been valuable for me, and has prompted a lot of reading and thinking/strategizing. I have not followed through with posting WOGs and reverse fishbones, but at some point, the whole point of going from 5 to 6 appeared to boil down to further developing the nodes/modules and their connections through focussed and mindful execution/hands on approach with a view at increasing integration and application of systems thinking.

At some point (around the end of January), I had to move from the drawing board back to the actual field work before returning to adjust the model and so on and so forth.

This meant that I had done enough internal mental sketching/journaling to know what I should be "doing", but needed more "time" to fully articulate this into a WOG. More time/availability that I didn't grant myself, because I chose instead to engage with my projects and start implementing things.

While the exercise of thinking in terms of WOG/reverse fishbone diagrams sometimes felt like just spelling out what was already in place (and creating a blueprint after the fact doesn't feel that useful), it did lead to some insights, especially when considering connections between modules and "what's missing",

Systems tend to be in constant flux, always evolving, and life can be beautifully messy. I find that planning and trying to build too much structure and formality into the process has its limits for me. I have been too rigid in the past and now look to strike a good/better balance.

All this to say my focus has since shifted to pursuing/doing stuff, which party explains my silence. I could also speak about my failures, but that angle doesn't have much juice left ;)

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QUESTIONS

With the above in mind, and to get the ball rolling again, my question(s) to fellow thread members would be:

What are you "doing"? What are the areas (renaissance education domains, skills, etc.) that you are actively pursuing? What changes have you initiated since this thread has started, maybe in the context of this move towards WL 6 and above?

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