Social Skills + Social Capital Challenge & Resource Collection Thread

[Jin+Guice]

@AE: Yes doing the stuff I like and hanging out with other people I like and meeting people they like are the best for both. I am also really vocal about what I am trying to do. For example, I just started learning to embroider and I asked around and found out that I already know several people who embroider. This is also a good way to talk to someone if you notice they have embroidery supplies or a bunch of embroidery in their house.

Demographics is also important. I don't actually like most people. But I live in a city. I like people who live in cities, on average, more than those who don't. I also live in New Orleans. I like people who live in New Orleans, on average, more than those who don't. Low and behold I end up meeting more people that I like than that I don't by a huge margin. I want to meet musicians. I live in a city full of musicians. I want to meet attractive available women. There are a lot of attractive available women here. Basically the deck is stacked in my favor already bc of how my life is set up. It's a positive feedback loop with going places you like, meeting people through other people you like and doing things you like with other people.


Does that answer your question or am I missing the mark?






I wanted to add one thing that has been bothering me since I typed the previous post this morning.

People tend to have particularly strong narratives/ assumptions about building social skills. It's not totally necessary to get rid of them to improve, but, I believe you will be able to improve more quickly and go further if you do.

An example of what I'm talking about that I see above is when y'all are discussing clothing. It is not necessary for you to dress better. But how you dress and present yourself influences what people think about you, which influences social interaction. It also influences how you feel about people other people and how you feel about yourself. It will influence everyone differently. But the influence exists. If you declare that you will not dress better bc you do not care and it does not matter, you are denying reality and hindering your growth. It's the same as someone saying they hold cash because all investments are risky. They are trying to not participate in investing by holding cash, but in reality a cash position is an investment position and it is subject to inflation and other risks. There is a difference between saying "I hold cash bc I am lazy or bc I do not have an investment strategy. I realize the cost of this is losing money to inflation and possible confiscation among other risks and right now I bear that cost" as opposed to saying "I hold cash bc all investments are risky, so I chose not to invest." The former acknowledges reality and the context of the decision while the latter does not.

I think identifying these biases, assumptions and narratives are important for growth and I've found them to be particularly ingrained when it comes to social skills.

[shelob]

My assignment for the week:
1. Finish reading "Nonviolent communication: A language for life" (I'm about 1/2 through)
2. Look up the translations into my native language for all the emotions-related vocabulary, and practice them
3. Practice the NVC framework, especially with the ample opportunities I'm likely to have over the holidays.

Done! Not very life-changing so far, though. Which leads me to...

To help with this, you might want to consider defining how precisely you are going to act in certain situations.
[...]
You can use this method with common job interview questions, other common situations you encounter, etc.

This is really helpful, thank you. Therefore, my next assignment:
1. Make a NVC cheat sheet to keep on hand and look at several times during the day
2. use this method to analyse the social situations I end up in that don’t go as well as they could!

What I've learned doing this for a few years:

Amazing list, thank you. Re: point 3): I’m not sure if I’m qualified to say something about that . My take is that it’s not completely impossible, just a lot of work. And pretty likely to fail if the foundation that normal people tend to take for granted isn’t built up carefully. For example, I didn’t really realise that other people show what they feel on their face until I was 9 or so and saw the television series Lie to Me. I’m not sure if I could ever get good at “reading” people, but I am a lot better at it than I was at 16 or so. YMMV.

Also a great point about the importance of narratives, and very illustrating example. To the importance of self-presentation, I’d like to add that if you’re living in a communal living situation, it’s not just clothes (and manners), but also how well you make your bed. When I realised this some time last year, I got more orderly instantly.

[Jin+Guice]

@shelob: I think it's possible as long as you can recognize emotional and social cues. The ability to recognize them is better than being good at recognizing them. If you don't have the ability to recognize them you're going to need a different strategy. If you are just really bad at recognizing them (which I was) then you can build the skill.

Changing social and emotional and communication habits is really frustrating and slow. I focus on only one or two things at a time and repeat them in a bunch of situations until they are subconscious or habits or ingrained or w/e.

Incorporating the NVC stuff works in a similar fashion, ime.



Some recent successes:

Went to 2 parties yesterday and introduced myself to every person at the parties. My goal was to talk to them all, but I ran out of time at the first party. I met some musicians at the 2nd party and actually remembered to get their contact info. Calling that a win.

[Quadalupe]

Nice J&G!

I recently attended an event where we practiced with polarity. According to the theory, everyone has feminine and masculine energy and you can be mindful of what kind of energy you want to bring to social interactions. This can have a great effect on how the interactions will go.

For the rest of the week I want to experiment more with using the different kinds of energy and see if I notice a difference.

[Jin+Guice]

@Quadalupe:

How are you defining each? Are you using sexual dichotomy theory?

[mathiverse]

Mrs. Ego grew up on both sides of the border and learned a lot of these social graces in a place where they are still regularly practiced. She also reads old etiquette books that are chock full of embedded wisdom. Perhaps we need an etiquette thread here with the goal of developing friendships.

Any chance you could ask Mrs. Ego to recommend a few of those etiquette books and post them here, Ego?

[Ego]

Any chance you could ask Mrs. Ego to recommend a few of those etiquette books and post them here, Ego?

Sure. For years we had a dogeared copy of Emily Post, which is great for handling difficult social situations as well as all of the basic table setting things you would expect. Little things like the correct way to deal with someone at a dinner party who overwhelms a conversation or what to write in a condolence note. These were details that were invisible to an ignoramus like me. Over the years I learned that they represent a thousand small secret handshakes I never knew I didn't know. Fortunately I was just smart enough to not do anything really stupid and my few faux pas were written off as being a gringo. Since then I've learned that if there is a person who I think is really interesting, who I would like to get to know, the chances are high that they know this stuff. They may not always follow it, but they know and appreciate it when they see it. Also, I like rule breakers and find that those who know the rules and the reasons behind the rules often make the most interesting rule breakers.

[mathiverse]

Thanks, Ego! In case anyone else is interested, I found an old edition of the book for free, legally, online here: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/14314.

[Myakka]

Perhaps we need an etiquette thread here with the goal of developing friendships.

I like that idea. Perhaps, it could being with reading and discussing that etiquette book on gutenberg?

Personally, I think I need to start at chapter 35, "The Kindergarden of Etiquette".

[Frita]

I like that idea. Perhaps, it could being with reading and discussing that etiquette book on gutenberg?

Personally, I think I need to start at chapter 35, "The Kindergarden of Etiquette".

This sounds fun. Not working for money I find that I spend more time alone and have a higher standard for whom I spend my time. Based on observation, it seems that American etiquette expectations are loosening up…and not always in a good way.

[Jin+Guice]

Yassssssss

I've been trying to try to get into etiquette for years.

@Quadalupe: I'm not sure how I would incorporate sexual dichotomy theory into my various social schemes? I guess I could try to determine what energy I and those around me are exhibiting and try to ???? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I don't see the fun challenge or next action yet.

[7Wannabe5]

Since I am now old enough to remember life as it was half a century ago (sigh), and my rather old-fashioned father was from what passed for the upper-middle-class gentry in 20th century U.S., and my working class background mother was extremely upwardly mobile minded, I had etiquette constantly drilled into me as a child. One downside is that being trained to perform little speeches or exercises when you interact with people can actually make a naturally shy child feel even more shy due to fear of doing something wrong. Another downside, which I am sure has been amended in most modern books on the topic, is that the old school rules of etiquette tend towards strictly delineating and emphasizing differences in gender and class. For instance, I was frequently informed that my behavior was not "lady-like" or not something that was "done in our family."

My point here being that even a sociopath can exhibit elegant etiquette or superficial civility. I'm sure Ego and Mrs.Ego would agree that what matters the most in the realm of true refinement of social manners is exhibiting thoughtfulness, kindness and generousity of spirit even when under pressure. I am far from a perfect example of this behavior, but I know it is one of the core characteristics that allows a human to live life at the highest level even absent most other resources. When everything collapses around you, and you are digging through the garbage for your next meal, if you can turn to another human, smile, and say "Please, join me for dinner.", in that moment you are in possession of the greatest wealth possible.

[chenda]

There is a women on you tube called Jamila Musayeva who teaches etiquette.

I've taken steps for taking a table manners class before going to the UK for uni Sadly it's necessary.

Did you actually do this Shelob ?

[AxelHeyst]

@Quadalupe: I'm not sure how I would incorporate sexual dichotomy theory into my various social schemes? I guess I could try to determine what energy I and those around me are exhibiting and try to ???? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I don't see the fun challenge or next action yet.

Think of it like those forms of martial arts where it's all about observing and using your opponent's energy/momentum. Except, in social contexts, don't think of people as adversaries, think of them as dance partners maybe? An example is in a work situation, I would try to notice what sexual polarity/tensions/etc were present, and so small subtle things to increase or decrease the amount of 'energy' being applied to the task at hand. You can make projects more/less fun, more/less productive, more/less fictitious, by adroit engagement of these energies.

Action/Challenge ideas, from easier to trickier:
1. Notice and observe people's polarity state. Ask if person X is being sub or dom, masculine or feminine, if it seems to fit well or if there's some strain happening there, come up with theories about why. Key here is not just what energy a person if giving off, but what you think they feel about it. Some people exhibit masculine traits and aren't too stoked about it. Some people exhibit feminine traits and aren't too stoked about it. (in specific situations I mean.)
2. Take small exploratory actions. Think about is as playing with the polarity gap, either making it bigger or smaller. If someone's exhibiting masculine energy and you put out some feminine actions/vibes, does that change the energy flow? In what way? Does it feel better, worse, more charged, in a good way, in a bad way? How do you think they're feeling about it? If you're manipulating the polarity between you and Joe, keep an eye on Sally. How is Sally responding if at all?
3. Once you feel some confidence in accurately noticing and beneficially playing with energy levels, without much risk of doing something weird/creepy, approach some longer term situation with an overall desired outcome. Like, I'm engaged in Project X with person Y and Z, and these are their basic polarities and how they act in certain situations, and my goal here is to drop the three of us into a really fun high-energy creative state and to do that I think I'm going to take on a slightly more feminine energy during work sessions because that really gets Y going and Z feeds off that, but then when we're having drinks after I'm going to switch my energy to more masculine which functions as a sort of polarity break and also guards against Y taking a dominant attitude towards me which I don't like....

[7Wannabe5]

When I researched the origins of late 20th century sexual dichotomy theory, I discovered that it actually has some roots in the practice of Voodoo (or , more correctly, Vodun.) IOW, some of the "magic" of Vodun is due to recognition of this kind of energy/polarity.

Since our modern culture is still primarily very masculine in energy, but secondarily tending towards repressing that energy, it has been my experience that even a very unskilled presentation of feminine energy can free up a lot of "potential." Or in simpler terms, in a world where almost nobody attempts to exhibit feminine charm*, just a teensy bit will result in pretty much endless supply of grouchy old guys rendered happy to open car doors for you

*Obviously, in many contexts, such as this forum, I exhibit very different energies, such as " somewhat verbally obnoxious asexual nerd", but in dating environment, for better or worse, I have trained myself to do what works on auto-pilot. IOW, it is now the case that I can't not be charming on a date without purposefully making the effort to behave otherwise. It's analogous to how it is diffiult to make yourself interview poorly even in a context where you don't particularly want the job. I think the more social skills and experiences you accumulate in life, the less you focus on being the "real" you; the more you realize that you have real "yous." As always, MMV, and/or I might just be a bit cuckoo-bananas.

[chenda]

When I researched the origins of late 20th century sexual dichotomy theory, I discovered that it actually has some roots in the practice of Voodoo (or , more correctly, Vodun.) IOW, some of the "magic" of Vodun is due to recognition of this kind of energy/polarity.

Oh this sounds interesting, where can I find out more ?

[Quadalupe]

@Quadalupe: I'm not sure how I would incorporate sexual dichotomy theory into my various social schemes? I guess I could try to determine what energy I and those around me are exhibiting and try to ???? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I don't see the fun challenge or next action yet.

Everything is about sex, except sex, which is about power!

But honestly, I am at the very left part of the mt stupid curve here. I think AxelHeyst gave some good examples of things I would like to try. Exactly how to play with the polarity gap is still something to discover. The whole concept of polarity might just be another tool in my social toolbox. I know notice that a lot of people at work for example exhibit a lot of feminine traits. There is not much conflict, but also some things don't get resolved quickly since no one wants to step in and employ masculine energy.

But it might also be that I'm using a hammer on screws here, still figuring it out!

@7W5: I was hoping you'd chime in! Do you feel that you can easily 'switch' between the feminine/masculine energies?

I think the more social skills and experiences you accumulate in life, the less you focus on being the "real" you; the more you realize that you have real "yous."

This sounds like some real higher WL on the social axis! Would you be willing to explain more? I feel like I have multiple 'scripts' for different social situations, but I don't feel like I have multiple 'mes'.

[shelob]

I was going to write “+1000 for the etiquette thread!”, but then I thought better of it and started it instead: Dedicated Etiquette Thread

@Chenda: Thanks a lot for the youtube recommendation, I’m thinking about applying for her course!

Did you actually do this Shelob ?

No, not yet. I hope to move to the UK by October or so, and I want to get it done before then. Not very soon though, I have a major exam coming up

[7Wannabe5]

@Chenda:

I can't unearth my line of research back to the Voodoo reference, but I thought I came upon it after I traced Dr. Laura"s " The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" 2003 to Helen Andelin's "Fascinating Womanhood: How the Ideal Woman Awakens a Man's Deepest Love and Tenderness" 1963 to "Fascinating Womanhood or The Art of Attracting Men" 1922 - The Psychology Press. It might have been in an article by the author of this biography of Helen Andelin https://uofupress.lib.utah.edu/helen-an ... -movement/ . Or it's also possible that I happened upon it when tracing back influences on David Deida, author of #1 book in Amazon category Men's Gender Studies, "The Way of the Superior Man: A Spiritual Guide to Mastering the Challenges of Women, Work, and Sexual Desire."

Every 30 years or so there is a revival of notions along the line that "American Men have become weak and lily-livered compared to their fore-fathers." with similar sentiment applied to "the fast and forward, unfeminine behavior, of the sweet young girl become 'flapper.'" There's a good deal of somewhat scammy and/or repellent "bathwater" to be disposed of in the lineage of "sexual dichotomy theory." Mainly what it's got going for it is that it "works."

@7W5: I was hoping you'd chime in! Do you feel that you can easily 'switch' between the feminine/masculine energies?
7Wannabe5 wrote:
I think the more social skills and experiences you accumulate in life, the less you focus on being the "real" you; the more you realize that you have real "yous."
This sounds like some real higher WL on the social axis! Would you be willing to explain more? I feel like I have multiple 'scripts' for different social situations, but I don't feel like I have multiple 'mes'.

I do not consider myself to be in possession of high level ambient or flexible social skills. I was thinking more in terms of psychological perspective rather than social behaviors in terms of "having multiple "me's" ." It might also have to do with doing Plotkin like therapy work examining different aspects of my personae in my late 30s combined with practicing polyamory in my 50s. Obviously, we work our way through our own development within the contexts of our most intimate relationships. We have personal therapy, couple's therapy, and family therapy. We don't have Acquaintanceship Therapy. Imagine if you were simultaneously having different problems in relationship with two different long-term intimate partners that you were addressing in Couple's Therapy, and you were also meeting with somebody for Personal Therapy where you were primarily discussing the experience of simultaneously doing Couple's Therapy with two different partners. IOW, this might just be me being currently in a really weird head-space due to having gotten to a juncture where I now have "old relationship energy" with 3 different men resulting in complex conversations being flooded with unexpected emotion.

[mathiverse]

... I thought I came upon it after I traced Dr. Laura"s " The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" 2003 to Helen Andelin's "Fascinating Womanhood: How the Ideal Woman Awakens a Man's Deepest Love and Tenderness" 1963 to "Fascinating Womanhood or The Art of Attracting Men" 1922 - The Psychology Press. It might have been in an article by the author of this biography of Helen Andelin https://uofupress.lib.utah.edu/helen-an ... -movement/ .

One of the funniest, most interesting, threads I ever traced was Dr. Laura's "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" back to a late 19th century work on the topic of voodoo love spells. I sort of feel like I own this "trace", so I often share the wisdom found therein