Fiction Writing MMG

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AnalyticalEngine
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Fiction Writing MMG

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

I'm looking to start a fiction writing MMG for any interested forumites. This will function similar to a critique group where you bring fiction you've written over the past month for critique. There will also be discussion on fiction writing techniques and skills, as well as trends in publishing and how to potentially sell to a publisher/self-publish your work.

Currently I'm thinking this will be held over Discord so we can have text channels for various topics then a once a month video call, but this format might change depending on what participants are comfortable with.

If you're interested, you can post here and I will PM you further details.

AxelHeyst
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Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by AxelHeyst »

Sign me up please!

7Wannabe5
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Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I would like to join.

theoriginalcin
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:33 pm

Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by theoriginalcin »

I’ve always wanted to write. Maybe this will be the kick in the pants I need. Sign me up!

AnalyticalEngine
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

Great! I've sent out invites to everyone who's posted so far. If anyone else wants to join, the group is still open.

shelob
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Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by shelob »

I would also like to participate. Thank you for the offer!

AnalyticalEngine
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

Invite sent!

OutOfTheBlue
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Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

I would like to join, too. I've mostly written poetry in my native Greek/French, but it's been several years since I've done so. This could be a way to reconnect with that desire for expression through words, even if not in my native language(s). And to connect with and read prose from some fine individuals :-)

I am sure there are ways this can benefit the public forum too.

Edit: Having second thoughts on adding a time commitment right now. I'd feel better if I was already writing, too. Apologies for the back and forth...

AnalyticalEngine
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Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

@OutOfTheBlue - No worries! Whatever you decide to do is okay. The group itself is pretty laid back. Everyone who's joined so far has done so because they want to get back into writing, not because they already are writing. Indeed, the reason I started it is because group peer pressure does wonders for motivation. :lol: So it's pretty lowkey if you do decide to join, but of course I understand if you have too much on your plate to commit.

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Jean
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Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by Jean »

I would like to join. I'm writing in french.

AnalyticalEngine
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

Invite sent.

I'm pleasantly surprised there is more interesting in this MMG than I thought. It seems like a lot of people are using this to either get into writing for the first time or get back into writing after a hiatus. We have six confirmed members so far.

ertyu
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by ertyu »

I would like to join. I am not sure how comfortable I'd be with sharing my writing or showing my face on call, so at first I was hesitant to apply, but I would like to participate in conversations around the craft of writing and "becoming the sort of person who can write a great book." I will also contribute by critiquing other group members' writing in chat discussion.

AnalyticalEngine
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Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

Invite sent. And no worries if you don't want to join calls or share your work. Participating in conversations and getting motivated by the group energy is a valid use of the group too.

IlliniDave
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Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by IlliniDave »

I'm game if there are still openings.

AnalyticalEngine
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

Invite sent.

OutOfTheBlue
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:59 am

Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

ertyu wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:16 pm
I would like to join. I am not sure how comfortable I'd be with sharing my writing or showing my face on call, so at first I was hesitant to apply, but I would like to participate in conversations around the craft of writing and "becoming the sort of person who can write a great book." I will also contribute by critiquing other group members' writing in chat discussion.
Hey Ertyu, we're starting in earnest, if you still want to join.

AnalyticalEngine
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Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

On Writing and ERE

We've had some great conversations on how writing relates to ERE in the MMG, and I wanted to rely some of it back to the forums. I also have some additional thoughts based on my own experiences to share here as well.

Pros of Writing
1. Interesting experiences - In order to be a good writer, you need many different life experiences to write about. It's hard to write something you've never experienced, so even writing about novel topics forces you to do research and meet new people. For example, I've interviewed a former gang member for some of my crime fiction and I'm in the process of signing up for the FBI citizen's academy class in order get a better idea of how the federal justice system works.

2. Becoming a live player/unlearning the salaryman loser mindset - Writing is a ridiculously competitive field. If you want to get published, you need to have high technical writing skills and a very high degree of strategic thinking. You want to write where you see reading trends will be in the future, not where they are now. This requires you think ahead and try to live in the reality of publishing as much as possible.

It also forces you to learn business skills and think like a businessman/workingman instead of as a salaryman. For example, looking at what was published recently and backtracking the agents and editors from those books then trying to meet those people at conferences/conventions is critical. Networking is a huge part of getting published. You also need to think about how to build an audience and engage with fans.

These are all new and important skills compared to being a salaryman. Being a salaryman involves unlearning agency and following orders. But a highly competitive environment forces you to actually compete, which is very important in tossing aside the loser mindset.

3. Rebuilding atrophied attention span and reclaiming how you use your time - Wasting 3 hours watching people dance on TikTok becomes abundantly clear as the waste of time that it is. Given how hard sitting down and writing actually is, learning to rebuild your ability to focus and cut garbage activities from your schedule is suddenly important. Part of unsalarymaning yourself involves actually caring about where you spend your time, and this is a great way to do it.

4. Other writers are interesting and open minded people - I've had a much easier time meeting ERE-compatible people at writing groups and book clubs, in part because writing attracts people who tend to be fairly intelligent. Writing is also a free activity, so it's a great way to meet frugal people who want to talk about interesting topics.

Cons of Writing
1. It's all encompassing - Trying to write is quickly taking over my entire life, and it's not always for the better. Given I also work full time, I now feel constantly pressed for time and it's sometimes translating into me being even more impatient with other people than I already was. Hanging out with people in purely social situations is starting to feel like a waste of time that I don't have, and I don't think this lack of balance is healthy. True, this does give me incentive to quit my salaryman job because now I have actual things to do outside of it, which is hugely important, but writing is so all encompassing that I could see this easily leading to burnout.

It's also starting to consume my social life and how I spend all of my leisure time. Reading/writing groups are becoming my primary source of socialization, and the time I should be spending unwinding is now being spend reading novels. And the issue is that, as writer, you aren't really reading novels for fun. Your brain automatically starts deconstructing the whole thing as you read it, so it's no longer a fun, relaxing activity. It's work. So any form of genuine relaxation now feels like a waste of time, and this single-minded workaholism is one of the things you should be trying to escape with ERE.

2. Consumes your focused attention ability for the day - Writing is such a high focus, high creativity activity that you can only spend so long working on it. If you have other high focus things you want to do, they compete with writing for your execution time. For example, I also draw comics and I'm working on programming a video game in addition to my full time job. This is WAY too much of "high brain focus" time, and the fact I can only do so much of it in a day is frustrating.

3. The dreaded social media - I have zero social media presence currently, and it's fantastic. I love the fact I do not have to touch twitter/tiktok/instagram with a 10-foot pole. But as I think about selling books, I realize I need to build an audience, which would involve reengaging with platforms I hate.

4. Skills it encourages may be unbalanced - I'm thinking primarily about physical skills here. Writing is just butt in chair, and you're missing out on things like sports, hiking, anything physical when you write 24/7.

5. The fact it's so competitive means you need to specialize - Which means you may not be going full on renaissance man "sew lentil fermentation box out of pine needles " because of the workload.

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grundomatic
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Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by grundomatic »

Thoughts from a non-writer. Regarding social media, if writing is a post FI activity, you don't need a giant audience, and you certainly don't have to be a part of an attention sucking ecosystem if you don't want to. Go old school and have an email list. Or do a meandering cross country book tour at independent booksellers. How did people sell books before social media?

Regarding specialization, in Refuse to Choose, Barbara Sher recommends writing as an umbrella career in order to try lots of new things out. Dive into the criminal/justice system and crank out some books for some years, then dive into something else and write about that.

As far as being worried about sitting down all the time, you could train for a law enforcement fitness test. Also, in this book viewtopic.php?p=245845#p245845 i think taking a walk is one of the top recommendations for creative types.

AnalyticalEngine
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Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

Thanks @grundomatic, those are all great points. What I've decided with respect to social media is to just kick that can down the road until I have a book written. Given most published authors have to write multiple novels before going anywhere with it, might as well worry only about getting the first one down then save the business side of the equation as a problem for the future. It seems like a lot of authors do a 50/50 split with the business/writing in terms of how they spend their time, and given that my "business" time is being consumed by full time work at the moment, the problem can be solved later.

I also picked up that book at the library and I'll give it a read, thanks for the rec!

ertyu
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Re: Fiction Writing MMG

Post by ertyu »

Sounds like a sensible choice to me. If you're going to invest time in promotion anyway, might as well do it when you have a backlist that people can check out once they're hooked on your writing. You'll be promoting more books at once, increasing benefit per unit effort, and you won't fall into the trap where poor social media feedback to the first novel one puts out discourages one from sticking with writing.

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