What do you miss from your pre ERE life?

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zbigi
Posts: 995
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:04 pm

Re: What do you miss from your pre ERE life?

Post by zbigi »

Jean wrote:
Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:51 am
The screw up happened much earlier, and i probably wouldn't have done better.
But we went from a time when humans could just hunt, to a time when most were serf.
And being able to just hunt is what i wish for myself and all my future bloodline, and what i'm willing to work for.
I think it's doable. I've listened to a podcast about a young American man who wanted to do something altruistic and flew to some god-forsaken village in Siberia to help an oprhanage there. Long story short, he got to know the local population pretty well and learned that there are some locals who still live like the idealised tribes of the past - they roam the land in groups for months, hunt caribu etc. Some of them sometimes come to live the settled life in civilization for a time, but invariably end up as depressed alcoholics. Sometimes they manage to shake out of that and return to the tribe.

Anyway, what I want to say is that there are still people who spend their lives hunting, and some of them are relatively accesible. The language would probably be the biggest barrier.

Hristo Botev
Posts: 1739
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:42 am

Re: What do you miss from your pre ERE life?

Post by Hristo Botev »

The discussion of "rights" here is interesting. I've not read my Aristotle yet, much less my Aquinas. But, with those admitted deficiencies, I'm not sure "rights" are something that we are meant to claim for ourselves: i.e., "I have a right to food." And I'm also not sure it's even correct to separate out and alienate "rights" the way the enlightenment folks do/did (sorry Jefferson et al.). When we talk about "rights" it seems we are really talking about the virtue of justice; and the virtues are NOT things that exist in a vacuum (I've read that much of my Plato)--they necessarily coexist with the other virtues: temperance, fortitude, prudence, and then throw in your theological virtues of hope, faith, and charity.

So, does Johnny have a "right" to food? Or healthcare? To privacy? Or even a "right" to labor for food? I think the answer is, and always will be, "well, it depends . . . ," and that's regardless of whether you're looking at it from a purely natural law perspective or from a Catholic/Thomist perspective.

If the question is "do I have a right to food?"; I honestly would hardly know where to begin to answer that question.

OutOfTheBlue
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:59 am

Re: What do you miss from your pre ERE life?

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

Hristo Botev wrote: The discussion of "rights" here is interesting.
This reminds me of a discussion the author Daniel Quinn has with a real reader in "If They Give You Lined Paper, Write Sideways".
From a Goodreads review of the book wrote:You can think of If They Give You Lined Paper, Write Sideways as the fifth book in Quinn's Ishmael series (the other four being Ishmael, The Story of B, My Ishmael and Beyond Civilization); it deals with a lot of the same ideas he introduced in Ishmael. This is not a work of fiction, like the three Ishmael books, or a descriptive nonfiction work like Beyond Civilization, though; it's a transcription of a dialogue that actually took place between Quinn and a reader. And, if it's about anything, it's about how to think critically rather than about Quinn's ideas directly. He's trying to get "Elaine," the confused reader, to adopt the perspective of a "Martian anthropologist," which is how he looks at things, and how he writes his books. And he succeeds, which is what gives the book something of a dramatic arc. It's striking to see how Elaine's dialog changes over the course of the book; she gains so much in insight and critical-thinking skills that you'd think she was another person. Indeed, if she were a fictional character I might express skepticism that a real person's thought and speech patterns could change so much in four days, but she's real.
The whole book/discussion is presented as an attempt to explain how he does what he does, which he identifies as examining subjects and underlying assumptions through the lens of a Martian Anthropologist.

At some point, the two of them start tackling various subjects or questions submitted by readers, and one of these questions is this:

“Do you support the idea of extending human rights to primates?”

Daniel Quinn and "Elaine" then go on asking themselves about human rights, and rights in general. The famous statement written by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence that all Men are “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights” is also examined.

The whole dialog is quite edifying, but here is how it ends:
Daniel. Obviously. A whole lot of people think they have the right to decide what people can and can’t do in their bedrooms [they were talking about homosexual rights]. This was the only tool they had to use against them. The asserting of rights has become an important tool for the people of our culture, but my point is …?

Elaine. That it’s only the people of our culture who need to use it.

Daniel. To us, having to assert a right in order to have the things we want or want to do is taken to be a sort of human norm. It seems to make perfect sense — to be not in the least bizarre. One of my tasks has been to pull people far enough away from our culture to see how very bizarre it really is. I don’t mean that it’s uniquely bizarre.
I just mean that, seen from a distance — from the point of view of a Martian anthropologist — our culture is no less bizarre than cultures whose customs seem to us outlandishly grotesque. Our way of doing things would seem as bizarre to the Gebusi of New Guinea as the Gebusi’s way of doing things seems to us.

Dave
Posts: 547
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:42 pm

Re: What do you miss from your pre ERE life?

Post by Dave »

Lemur wrote:
Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:51 pm
I've gained too much from FIRE/ERE to miss anything from pre-ERE life.
Same.

It's not all from ERE - some is just growing up - but overall ERE has made me more effective at achieving life outcomes I want, and that's a huge positive. I don't feel a loss of naivete from pre-ERE, as I was already fairly aware of many of the issues in the world ERE highlights. I somewhat empathize with a loss of mystique in the world, but this was offset by a gain in learning so much more.

ffj
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:57 pm

Re: What do you miss from your pre ERE life?

Post by ffj »

What do I miss?

Being hungry, literally and figuratively.

Having been retired for over 8 years now and still relatively young compared to other wage slaves, I feel I've handled the transition well, BUT, it comes with a cost. If you don't have the imagination and desire to create new goals and satisfactions in your life post work you should probably stay at your job.

The first shock after leaving work is that you have left part of your identity behind AND you have just accomplished an incredible goal with virtually nobody to talk about it or celebrate with the exception of maybe your spouse. Everyone else will think you are bragging, won't understand your motivation, will think you are leaching off of someone, or will become resentful because they have to go back to some shitty job the next morning.

But by far the biggest issue is not having the same intense desires while still employed, as it takes a less than ideal life situation to create that hunger to do anything to escape and create a better life. At some point, all of your good decisions and efficiencies will catch up to you and you'll be sitting in a chair getting fat wondering what to do that day because there aren't any demands placed on you. This is where you had better have an imagination as well as curiosity and be able to temper some of your internal motivations. You've won the game, now what?

kumasan
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:46 am

Re: What do you miss from your pre ERE life?

Post by kumasan »

Thank you everyone for sharing your wisdom and experiences. This is definitely my gratitude of the day! So many interesting journals from the active members too.

I roughly separated into 4 categories:
1) Missing nothing (what a bliss!)
2) Missing excitement, ambition, desire
3) Missing peer relationships, social norm, routine
4) Missing ignorance of environmental, consumerism, money related issues

I'm not a driven person, so I already miss number 2. It can be an ageing effect too.
@Slevin, wow! That was very thoughtful!

Humanofearth
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:32 am

Re: What do you miss from your pre ERE life?

Post by Humanofearth »

Jacob had a fair point.

I don’t miss anything at all. Just wish I started investing more in my health earlier. Mainly, went to the gym, got a nice kitchen, and very healthy lifestyle.

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