What do you miss from your pre ERE life?

[kumasan]

I'm trying gratitude! It has been good!
Since I'm still far far from FI, I am curious to know for those who managed to achieve it, what is it that you miss from your life before it.

Kind of reminds me of that cliche about the journey being more important than the goal itself...

[J_]

That is more than two decades ago. I remember in pre-times I was astonished and a little disappointed that the salary of me and my wife miraculously vanished every time I made my sums about our yearly income and outgoing money and hardly any savings. Although our salaries rose each year....
I do not miss that, I do not miss anything from those pre-times. Perhaps there was something but that has completely vanished.
It is the other way around: I am glad, every day, that I decided to change, first YMOYL style and later ERE-style when Jacobs blog came to my horizon.

[jacob]

I mostly miss having a beginner's mind. It was exciting to learn and build the [ERE] systems. Now that the systems are built, it's just maintenance. Sure, I can still talk about it, but it's not as exciting to talk about as when I was still building it. More precisely, you'll see me responding to questions and interviews, but it's not like I'm internally driven to blog or talk about it. As the challenge was overcome, it's gone from "arousal" (excitement) to "relaxation".

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chal ... _skill.svg

[Slevin]

The great thing about ERE is that it is about building and adopting a certain mindset and systems for yourself. And once you adopt it, you are safe from many of the externalities of the world much much before a magical “FI” number. So while you might not be FI yet, you can certainly be “ERE”. And that’s something to be thankful for.

Or to put it another way; there is an old quote, “Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.”

The ERE equivalent is: “Before FI, create meaning and happiness through low consumption and non monetary pathways. After FI, create meaning and happiness through low consumption and non monetary pathways.”

Having a magical number in you bank account just changes a number in your bank account. I’m my opinion It is best to feel contentment and enjoyment in where you are now and enjoying the struggles you have now. I only ever found discontent in looking forwards always to some magical number that I didn’t reach yet.

[AnalyticalEngine]

I miss the ignorance of not being able to see certain systems (consumerism etc) play out their externalities. It made the world simpler to understand.

[OutOfTheBlue]

The great thing about ERE is that it is about building and adopting a certain mindset and systems for yourself. And once you adopt it, you are safe from many of the externalities of the world much much before a magical “FI” number. So while you might not be FI yet, you can certainly be “ERE”. And that’s something to be thankful for.

Or to put it another way; there is an old quote, “Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.”

The ERE equivalent is: “Before FI, create meaning and happiness through low consumption and non monetary pathways. After FI, create meaning and happiness through low consumption and non monetary pathways.”

Having a magical number in you bank account just changes a number in your bank account. I’m my opinion It is best to feel contentment and enjoyment in where you are now and enjoying the struggles you have now. I only ever found discontent in looking forwards always to some magical number that I didn’t reach yet.

This is gold. Thank you, Slevin, for putting it down.

[unemployable]

Ambition

[Sclass]

Yeah same. I miss desire.

I got really good at talking myself out of wanting anything. Now I don’t want anything. It is a relief but it also is a void in my soul.

I remember wanting a bunch of material things, vacations or a romantic interest. It seems silly now. But I miss that feeling of actually wanting something. It’s like I can no longer fall in love with something, someplace or someone. Whenever I see something really desirable I can just shut it down in my mind and walk away from it. “Too much money, too much trouble, too much upkeep.”

The other thing I miss is being with my old friends. Once I retired things got really awkward. We spent a lot of time complaining about our financial problems, politics and jobs. Now none of that applies to me so I have kind of been dropped by the people who were closest to me at one time. I get it. We just cannot feel good around each other anymore.

[unemployable]

Whenever I see something really desirable I can just shut it down in my mind and walk away from it. “Too much money, too much trouble, too much upkeep.”

Or I get the thing but I'm completely analytical in the process and that takes all the romance out of it. I have objective X; here are paths A, B and C to get there; now optimize. Okay B's more expensive than A but has less hassle factor, go with that. Great, that worked and I have X. Now what?

I've done all the hiking I really need to do. No ambition even to finish the Colorado 13ers, much less something like Aconcagua. Been to all the states and national parks, World Series games, Final Fours. Moved to the mountains. Got my withdrawal rate down to 3%. The math says that'll do.

Basically the last great unknown in my life is buying a house. Part of me isn't so sure why I'm in such a hurry to do this, because all it'll really be is a place to sit around for the last 30 years of my life.

[DutchGirl]

I've felt cursed recently for still wanting things, and wanting people to like me or love me. The hunger is real sometimes, and I can't have everything. Reading your stories, sclass and unemployable, perhaps I should be glad that I can still feel this?

I also feel like some of your "meh" feelings could be caused by growing older and having had some experiences.I think I also have some situations where I would have thrown myself in enthusiastically at age 18 or age 24 and now know: oh... careful here... it could be not worth it/this could be painful or a lot of trouble...

I do miss from my early ERE days the feeling that my world view was put upside down (and in a positive way: I can control my finances? I can grow my independence? Wow!). And the way how reading new articles on personal finance/ERE would truly leave me with a new insight. I'm still reading articles and blogs but they will not surprise me as often anymore.

Also back then I had the satisfaction of learning new things and doing things in a new way, and being proud of being able to do them. Now setting money aside for the future is normal. (And a bit easier because of a bigger paycheck).

So I guess I could find these feelings again (and kumasan also?) by focusing on some other part of life and learning new things there. (Of course not abandoning ERE completely while doing so).

[ertyu]

I also feel like some of your "meh" feelings could be caused by growing older and having had some experiences.I think I also have some situations where I would have thrown myself in enthusiastically at age 18 or age 24 and now know: oh... careful here... it could be not worth it/this could be painful or a lot of trouble...

This is exactly what my thoughts were reading those posts. At least for me, if I am to really want something, I need to be able to idealize it. I need to be able to ignore the negative or harmful sides, such as with ice cream and other such that produce a feeling of satisfaction in the moment but harm the body long-term. Or I need to be able to tell myself an unrealistically rose-colored glasses story of how things will turn out (see new job, new apartment, a relationship, etc). If I can't sustain a fantasy, I can't want it -- and if I have the life experience or wisdom to know the realities involved, I would likely not want it (except for ice cream and the like, for which the natural addictive tendencies of the brain to blank out future consequences take over)

[jacob]

I think I also miss being on the same level or life stage as other people. ERE is like speedgaming a 20th century life. Finishing the game of "working for a living" in 5 years instead of 50 years. If we see life as a progression of stages from kindergarden to elementary and middle school and high school and college; then job and the RE ... you gotta wonder why people remain stuck in job class for so many years and not graduating.
Back then there was a shared sentiment of working towards something ... now I wonder what's holding everybody back? Year after year you see people somehow not being able to pass the FI exam so they can move on with their lives.

So also missing is the naivety and expectation about other people. It's like they want to stay in the system/Plato'sCave forever.

[Jean]

i used to say that is speedran my career.
I miss having responsabilities. It was fun to get rid of them efficiently.
I also miss my commute. For some reason, i can't force myself to bike that much with no obligation involved.
It's like i finished doom, but there is no ultra nightmare to keep failling at things.

[chenda]

Absolutely nothing.

[zbigi]

So also missing is the naivety and expectation about other people. It's like they want to stay in the system/Plato'sCave forever.

Most of people have children. This tends to make most people very risk averse. Once the children are gone, people are often already in their fifties.

[Sclass]

Speedrunning- yes!

Gaming the system. Cheating. Cutting the course. Ignoring the rules. DQ. Not counting. I’m all this to my old friends. There’s no going back and I kind of miss the old times with them. Maybe in fifteen years when they retire we’ll make up.

I haven’t figured out homeownership yet. I suspect I just went around that one unless I’m going to buy an old folks home.

[J_]

I think I also miss being on the same level or life stage as other people. ERE is like speedgaming a 20th century life. Finishing the game of "working for a living......" .

(bolds by me)

Yes that's what I recognize: the speedgaming to another way of life. Suddenly you have/take time to ponder how to live. More quiet sometimes, much more adventurous other times. Suddenly the "boys and girls" of your age are restricted in comparison to your freedom. I can imagine that such is a shock for really young people (like Jacob in his start). For me the difference in age to rather early retired or fi people was not so much (about 17 years).

[Viktor K]

those of you who have expressed or experienced it, why do your relationships suffer?

was it a you or a them cause? both?

what could you have done differently to preserve them?

would it have been worth it?

[AnalyticalEngine]

@Viktor K - This has been my experience.

1. You realize a lot of your relationships were only outgrowths of the institutions you participated in. ERE often includes participating in less institutions as you gain independence, which can be isolating.

2. People often bond over shared suffering that you no longer relate to. Ie, complaining about how hard it is to meet the rent or about the latest new car they want. If you opt out of that, you have less to relate over, and some people may resent your choices.

3. Engaging in things on a deeper level makes it hard to reengage with them on the shallower level. So you're left with a deeper understanding of some topics but no one to communicate or discuss that understanding with. As a result, you have to translate/withhold mental frameworks so that others can understand them, but it's never the complete picture.

In these cases, I think you simply outgrow some social situations but find it's hard to replace them with something new. Of course, it requires leveling up your social skills so you can find new groups and institutions to replace the old ones, but ERE is sometimes a lonely path in that respect.

[Sclass]

Why my relationships suffered.

I cannot read minds but I’ll give you my best guesses.

1) good old fashioned jealousy.
2) I became a distraction that had nothing to do with their plan.
3) I discussed my unorthodox investing while young.
4) I disrupted the class hierarchy among a multigenerational friends network by retiring early. Oddly there were some people in the group who said this cannot be because it was not supposed to be due to some preexisting condition. They’re the people who control the social calendar.
5) related is there is a strong sense of rules in that hierarchy. I have apparently broken the rules.
6) a feeling of being betrayed. I had a bunch of older friends who thought they would share their financial guidance with me. They thought they were advising a poor friend on how to become financially stable like themselves. This went on for years till one day I told them I was retiring at 43 with 25 years of expenses in the bank. Our roles in the implicit hierarchy switched and their heads exploded.

I think the bottom line is the world runs on a set of assumptions. When you blow up that stuff too quickly it can really make somebody’s head explode. While pursing ERE you look like a pauper and then suddenly you retire and surprise everyone with the real you. I miss the pseudo pauper days when I was the affable underdog.