Everyday noise tolerance

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zbigi
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Everyday noise tolerance

Post by zbigi »

One of my bigger weaknesses is low tolerance for noises. For example, a downstairs neighbor's dog barking loudly maybe 5-10 times per day on the balcony directly beneath me (circa 5 meters from my ears) is enough to want me to move out to wilderness. I wonder how many of you are similar, and have sacrifices a lot of comfortd of living in the cities or suburia for peace and quiet in return?

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mountainFrugal
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by mountainFrugal »

It depends what I am doing, but if I am deep in thought I get annoyed much easier. I often sleep with ear plugs in even though it is relatively quiet here compared to the city. We moved out to a rural town, but I still hear my neighbors use the leaf blower and other annoying equipment once a week. I just throw in ear plugs and over the ear noise cancelling headphones and put on ambient music. If it really drives you nuts, you could look into audio engineer in-ear noise cancelling headphones.

AxelHeyst
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by AxelHeyst »

Reddit sub for misaphonia has lots of tips/ coping strategies that might be of use. E.g. I have moto earplugs that live on my keychain. When I lived in a city I wore over ear headphones and listened to loud music, white noise, or rain sounds a lot. I prefer living far from cities so not being in one is no sacrifice.

zbigi
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by zbigi »

Unfortunately, I can't use ear plugs, because of tinnitus. I already have good noise-cancelling headphones, in which I play noise that masks the tinnitus as well as some of the outside noise. However, depending on such crutches at times seems more like coping that living. Hence the periodically recurring dream of moving to the sicks.

chenda
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by chenda »

Not really but I always carry earplugs on my keyring if I'm in a noisy environment e.g. bar, live music. Noise induced hearing loss and tinnitus is a serious problem which can be easily protected against. Modern earplugs can block out the high decibel noise whilst allowing low decibel noise, so you can hear conversations better in a noisy environment.

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Ego
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by Ego »

Change your mindset regarding noise. If you tell yourself that noise is driving you crazy then it will drive you crazy. If you tell yourself that your tolerance for noise can increase with exposure and convince yourself that your ability to adapt to noise is trainable, then you can get better at dealing with it.

Notice how your mind reacts to noise and make a conscious effort to change that response. Every time you hear the dog bark, smile (literally) and silently thank the dog for the opportunity to increase your noise tolerance.

In other words, when you cannot change the barking dog, change how you react to the barking dog.

I am speaking from experience here as our place is in the landing path of a major international airport with 500 flights a day and we have a lot of crazy homeless people in the area who like to scream at odd hours just for the fun of it. When I say that we are in the landing path I mean that the planes pass 150 meters from our widow at 180 meters elevation.

Campitor
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by Campitor »

Growing up in the city and enduring the random drunk neighbor blasting music to the most inconvenient hours, and hearing sirens and random noise day and night, has made me very resilient to noise when I'm focused on something.

I suggest you actually expose yourself to more noise rather than less and try to build a tolerance to it. Use your headphones (noise canceling off) to protect your hearing from decibels in the harmful range.

I once shared an office, next to a loading dock, with several coworkers. Everyone complained about the noise of the trucks backing into the dock or the forklifts buzzing around right outside our door. I never had issues working.

The bad side to having a high tolerance to noise, is the risk zoning out someone who is actually talking to you - this is a real thing - I'm not joking.

theanimal
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by theanimal »

This is something I’ve been trying to work on for a while. I generally prefer quiet over industrial noise. But I’ve found that unless you’re completely isolated, there’s noise just about everywhere. Cities with all the people and services, suburbs with leaf blowers and rural areas with chain saws and heavy machinery. If I’m going to stay in an area otherwise I’ve tried to embrace the @ego approach. If I tell myself that I can’t work/sleep/live due to X noise then I am often immediately noticing it when it happens and become more frustrated than if I accept it. On the flip side, I’ve heard stories of people from NYC who can’t sleep if they’re in an area with minimal noise.

Also I can definitely attest to the high noise at @Ego estates. The planes seem like they are barely above the roofline and DW and I awoke at 3 am to some crazy person doing a yelling monologue in the street. :lol:

Scott 2
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by Scott 2 »

In my experience, even if you ignore it, constant noise accumulates stress. I'd rather spend that energy elsewhere.


I use a pair of wireless, noise cancelling headphones. Every day. For hours. Bose QC35 II. They were $330. No regrets.

The over the ear aspect also provides a strong physical cue. My brain knows it is time to focus. Others know not to interrupt.


After trying quite a few ear plugs, I settled on the HEAROS Ultimate Softness Series:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EPQ3H4

They are comfortable to sleep in. I don't use them every night, only when life is especially loud. Neighbor having a party. Fireworks. That sort of thing. For awhile, I was at a gym where the music was so loud, I'd wear them to workout. Tinnitus is unpleasant. I don't want it.

In my experience, constantly wearing ear plugs isn't good for your ears. That's part of why I favor the headphones.


It is true there will always be some noise. Try a sensory deprivation chamber. You'll learn with enough quiet, even the body is loud. You can hear the lungs inflating, heart beating, joints creaking, etc.

AxelHeyst
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by AxelHeyst »

Exposure therapy for noise annoyance is a fine thing, just wanted to point out that if the issue in fact is misaphonia, exposure therapy is viewed to be ineffective. Actually makes it worse.

https://misophoniainstitute.org/treatments-to-avoid/

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Ego
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by Ego »

Scott 2 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:18 am
In my experience, even if you ignore it, constant noise accumulates stress.
Stress is necessary for survival and essential for thriving. Human beings are adaptable. Eliminating all stress makes us fragile and more susceptible to damage. See my modified hormetic curve.

Image

We can expand these zones. Eliminating stress expands the red zone on the left. Some stress expands the green zone.

We become the story we tell ourselves.

We are bombarded with opportunities for hedonic adaptation....
jennypenny wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:07 am
Ascetic adaptation is necessary because we are constantly bombarded with opportunities for hedonic adaptation. It’s like trying to tread water in a strong current—you have to swim the other direction just to stand still.

zbigi
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by zbigi »

Ego wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:12 pm
Stress is necessary for survival and essential for thriving. Human beings are adaptable. Eliminating all stress makes us fragile and more susceptible to damage. See my modified hormetic curve.
The problem is, I prefer the stress to come from things i find valueable. Let's say, I want to learn something new about coding. If I push myself doing it, it's stressful and challenging. However, if I am already stressed by living in noisy environment, there won't be as much capacity left for extra stress from worthwhile pursuits. Creative people often move to a cabin in the woods for weeks/months where there are absolutely no distraction to get the bulk of their work done.

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Ego
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by Ego »

zbigi wrote:
Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:50 pm
One of my bigger weaknesses is low tolerance for noises.
zbigi wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:47 pm
The problem is, I prefer the stress to come from things i find valueable.
Improving one of your bigger weaknesses is not valuable?

Either way, it is what works for me. Probably not for everyone and that's okay.

zbigi
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by zbigi »

Ego wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:41 pm
Improving one of your bigger weaknesses is not valuable?
The question is, if it can be really improved... One plausible path is that I would adapt by turning into a person who does not go after intellectual pursuit as much, because focusing is too hard in noisy environment. I'm not 100% sold on "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" - sometimes it can also make you a weaker, broken man.

Also, on noise conditioning, I have two friends who lived as children over international roads with constant heavy truck traffic. They are now fine with all kinds and levels of noise. So, maybe they really got conditioned to it - but children's brains are miraculously plastic.

BTW, on dog front, I finally managed to talk to the neighbor with the dog (who's been avoiding me for a couple of months, and didn't open her door the past 3-4 times I went to talk to her). She was extra unreasonable, defensive and immature about it (how can a 50 yo lady believe that the problem will just go away if she doesn't open the door?), so I yelled at her a little bit to communicate that the problem is real and she must do something about it. Suprise suprise, today the dog is not barking any more. We'll see if that trend holds in the long term.

zbigi
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by zbigi »

Ego wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:41 pm
Improving one of your bigger weaknesses is not valuable?

Either way, it is what works for me. Probably not for everyone and that's okay.
This guy is someone I'm leaning towards quite often in my ruminations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdLAM-wChxY

He says he basically found modern living way too stressful, so he ditched the job, family and city living and built a hobbit house in Oregon woods. I suspect I'm closer to him in resiliance to stress, external stimuli that to you. That's why I created this thread - to find out how people similar to me in this regard are coping. So far, the main response were ANC headphones and earplugs. No one went to the extreme of moving into the forest. BTW for me, the immediate deterrant for doing that is Internet availability - any plot of land with cable-based connection will mean neighbors (so: dogs, gardening and farming equipment etc.), and wireless solutions (LTE or Starlink) are too flimsy for me to bet the farm on them.

AxelHeyst
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by AxelHeyst »

I don't think anyone's story is as straightforward as "my neighbors dog was barking so I sold everything and moved to the boonies"... But there are plenty of people who live in the woods because they're the kind of people who prefer the problems of the woods to the problems of living cheek to jowl to other people.

If your reason for moving to the woods is purely freedom from (annoying sounds), that's not going to cut it. You also need to want freedom to... Piss off your front porch, watch coyotes from your kitchen window, get snowed in, etc. Life in the woods is a much greater pain in the ass than listening to neighbor dogs, if you don't actually enjoy those pains in the ass that go along with life in the woods (like actually chopping wood and actually carrying water).

If you like cities and think you need cable internet, probably follow Ego's advice and stay there. Actually, follow Ego's advice either way because you'll need it in the forest just as much as in the city.

But if there's something very attractive about the simple rural life, and you do your homework and go for some test runs and still really like it... Yeah maybe the forest is calling your name.

J_
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by J_ »

I live in a historic town centre (no high rise builidings), with a canal ( on summer-days used by booze laden people with loud pounding music) to the front of the house, a town garden behind the house, to the rear, the left and right neighbours on two levels etc.: in short silence is a precious thing.
I like the hustle and bustle some times, I like quietness more often.
So I have compartmented my house: If the noise is from everywhere there is the central room, the most quiet one I can even use a folding bed to sleep there, if it is in the garden I go upstairs to the front room, if it is in the front I go to the diner/kitchen.
So I adapt by evading too much noise.

guitarplayer
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by guitarplayer »

I tend to avoid noise too (e.g. choosing quiet space on trains etc), but noise comes in different forms.

I have heard of some research about potential long term detriment coming from prolonged exposure to industrial noise on the evolutionary ground (i.e. people are not used to hearing e.g. speeding cars all the time, sound like something is coming to attack a person and it's tricky to reason one's way out of it because it is wired in a different part of the brain). But it's not like 24/7 unless someone works at a gas station or similar, so maybe like @Ego said one just adapts.

Being in the nature can be loud; between April and May when I am on the phone with the window open, people I speak with sometimes complain about birds being too loud. They normally start about 4am and can wake you up. Or imagine living in Bialowieza when the stags and deer are mating in the Autumn time. I would probably count barking dog into the 'natural noise' group.

Like others mentioned, I also use headphones with white noise (the sound of rain) and like @Scott 2 mentioned, for me too it tends to work like a behavioural indicator 'it's time to focus now'.

@Campitor this was indeed really funny about zoning out someone actually talking to you!

Dan Price is quite something, but he has a whole different lifestyle, I don't think you'd be able to keep your job going down his alley @zbigi. You could start drawing though like he does :)

A fun fact: I once spent some time in an anechoic chamber, where the main thing that reaches one's ear is the sound waves traveling through one's body (and a little bit from diffraction). Being there in silence was a very odd feeling, I feel strongly we seem to be designed to have some level of noise going on at all times.

Scott 2
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by Scott 2 »

Ego wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:12 pm
Eliminating all stress makes us fragile and more susceptible to damage.
I agree, but I distinguish between eustress (good) and distress (bad). Both eat away at one's daily dose tolerance.

Noise can be a source of distress. In my experience, degree depends on the arousal level one is trying to maintain. A barking dog is much more disruptive to programming than lifting weights. Reducing stimulus relieves more stress with the former. Maybe more important - having control over the source (whether mechanical or social) lowers the degree to which it is experienced as distress.

That last statement adds support to @ego's strategy - it's all in your head. Adapt. However, my personal experience has been there's an adaptive limit. It erodes without constant exposure. Even with adaptation, some overhead on one's arousal curve and daily stress tolerance persists.

Ignoring the noise example, home temperature is another. I've got a 10 degree window. Go below 65, my fingers tend to get numb. Focused activities like programming are harder, because sitting still is uncomfortable. Go above 75, even the lightest movement makes me sweat. I avoid cleaning or doing physical chores. In both cases, I grow frustrated more quickly. Given the opportunity cost, I happily use my heat and AC.

This is not to say I refuse sources of distress. But I seek control over them, to diminish their ability to disrupt. I'd rather spend my capacity to absorb stress on eustress.

And at times, when the price is right, I accept the overhead of distress. I lived across from a freight train corridor for 3 years. A homeless woman lived in the train station. At night, she would scream into the pay phone, slamming it into the receiver over and over. I could see the station from my window. They'd also hold freight trains just outside my apartment. The squeal a train makes when starting or stopping is like nothing else.

When I moved, my sense of peace increased. I slept better. There's no doubt it was a source of distress, even after 3 years. My housing expenses also doubled. I needed a car. I could no longer get places by train. The trade off was very real.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Everyday noise tolerance

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I’ve more frequently had the experience of being driven nuts by other humans who can’t tolerate noise than by noise itself. Of course, I’ve also been more frequently bothered by other humans who notice I’ve put on 10 lbs before it’s fully registered with me 😂

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