living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

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Autotroph
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living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by Autotroph »

Its been almost 100 days since I started living in my office, and I am so happy with my decision to go for it. I had the idea years ago, but it was for a friend who fell on hard times. Well a few months ago, a kind of wonderful crescendo occurred in my life where I decided to say 'fuck it, what's the worst that could happen', and gave it a shot with the goal of accelerating my path to FI. I live in a VHCOL and I hate paying rent because it feels terrible, and I can feel/see the money going into the pockets of some rich asshole. So I feel great not having to do that anymore.


I share the room with one other person, but there is a divider, and he only comes in once a week. So, I have a ton of privacy, and I don't see any risk of getting caught. If I can, I would like to stay here for about another 9-12 months, perhaps longer. I have a mini-fridge, a microwave (which I haven't used yet), and there is a kitchen down the hall with a toaster oven. My diet largely consists of: greek yogurt, maple syrup (or honey), nut butter (peanut, almond, cashew, etc), fresh fruit/vegetables, whole wheat bread, various seeds (e.g. flax, hemp, chia, etc), oats, and sardines. Sometimes I use the toaster oven to make sandwiches with some combination of the previous ingredients. I loosely follow the Mediterranean diet and I am the healthiest I have ever been.


For bathing, when I'm not lazy I go to the gym (like a 5-minute bike ride away), but lately, I've been using a bucket and two towels in my office, which I actually prefer because I don't have to get my face/hair wet. I typically wash my hair twice/week which I go to the gym for -- usually. Sometimes I go to a private bathroom on campus. I would now like to live in a home that doesn't have a 'traditional' bathroom, but instead a compost toilet and a small space to bathe with a bucket. For laundry, I still have a key to my old apartment complex's laundry room, so I just bike there and use it. I know it sounds a bit crazy, but if you saw me, you would have no idea.


I just turned 30, and my goal is to be more or less FI in the next few years, which should be easy given my trajectory. If I wasn't an emotional wreck, or a graduate student, the last 5-6 years I would have been done by now. Currently, my NW is ~60k, which given my expenses, could last me a long time. My monthly expenses are very low, almost entirely food and the occasional haircut or similar, but this won't last forever. I also:
1. got rid of my cell phone a little over a year ago (now I usee google voice, and no one can tell the difference)
2. I haven't had a car in almost 10 years, so I save a lot there. When I ditched my car, I made a promise to myself to never get one again.


I have a bike with a rack and panniers, and I'm in good pretty good shape so I can get around fairly easily. There's a lot of other things I do to get the expenses low, but I pay basically no money for transportation and housing which are the big ones. With no phone, I feel a bit more 'free' and able to have some *real* alone time. People often ask 'what if a loved one has an emergency and needs help' to which I say 'call a damn ambulance not me wtf'. I enjoy having times where I can't be reached, i.e., when I'm not around wi-fi. One of the initial benefits of moving into my office was that I started spending A LOT of time outside, obviously, because I don't want to be in a windowless room all day. Spending so much time outside, particularly hiking trails around me, I discovered an entire fucking world lmao


So yeah, that's that. Please ask me questions! There's a lot more to tell, which I am eager to do :-D. Once I'm done with this, some ideas of the next move would be:
1. Getting a van and driving around California (I want to spend some time at slab city!)
2. buy some land in Northern California (or my homeland of Michigan), grow some weed, build a cabin/tiny house or something and just not work for a long time lol
3. Get a job in tech/finance, live in a van or the office, and save up a bunch of money for 1-3 years and 'fatFIRE'

fuck society.
Last edited by Autotroph on Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

HalfCent
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Re: living out of my office, AMA!

Post by HalfCent »

Props to you

Autotroph
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Re: living out of my office, AMA!

Post by Autotroph »

lmao thank you. Feels good to share with people who understand

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unemployable
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Re: living out of my office, AMA!

Post by unemployable »

I love house/dwelling hacking. I do most of my laundry in the sink. Most coin washers don't seem to clean very well. I suspect laundromat owners (including laundry rooms in apartment buildings and the like) do the bare minimum of maintenance on the machines and plumbing, if they're cognizant of the need to perform maintenance at all.

With a panini press your cooking options expand greatly, including the ability to grill ground beef or chicken. You'll probably want to use it in the kitchen area, though.
Autotroph wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:22 am
3. Get a job in tech/finance, live in a van or the office, and save up a bunch of money for 1-3 years and 'fatFIRE'
FatFIRE is generally considered to require assets in the $2m+ range, so that you can accommodate annual spending around $100k/yr. Is that the context you mean?

Autotroph
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Re: living out of my office, AMA!

Post by Autotroph »

unemployable wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:56 am
With a panini press your cooking options expand greatly, including the ability to grill ground beef or chicken. You'll probably want to use it in the kitchen area, though.



FatFIRE is generally considered to require assets in the $2m+ range, so that you can accommodate annual spending around $100k/yr. Is that the context you mean?
I thought about it, and I may. I think that if I bought anything, I would get a hot plate and/or a food processor (mainly to make nut butters). I still have some pots/pans so I could cook in the kitchen with it.

Sorry I didn't know that, I meant 'fatFIRE' in the sense of trying to get to >$500k.

theanimal
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Re: living out of my office, AMA!

Post by theanimal »

Have you ever read this guys blog? I remember reading it a few years ago, sounds like you have a very similar setup
. He lived in his office for nearly 2 years without being noticed. I don’t remember the original blog name but here’s an overview article he wrote.

https://www.salon.com/2015/04/30/i_sec ... _500_days/

Any issues with cleaning staff or people coming in on the weekends?

Autotroph
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Re: living out of my office, AMA!

Post by Autotroph »

theanimal wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:23 am
Have you ever read this guys blog? I remember reading it a few years ago, sounds like you have a very similar setup
. He lived in his office for nearly 2 years without being noticed. I don’t remember the original blog name but here’s an overview article he wrote.

https://www.salon.com/2015/04/30/i_sec ... _500_days/

Any issues with cleaning staff or people coming in on the weekends?
I have! It did help inspire me a bit, especially since we live in the same region. Although, I think his situation is worse since he had to do it for financial reasons and I think my setup is much better. I didn't know he had a blog! I'll be reading it now.

Nope, the situation with that is: Every Monday at 6am they open the door, check the trash can, and then leave. I made sure to leave it empty so they don't spend any time in here, once they see its empty they just leave. Minimum wage, minimum work.

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Sclass
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by Sclass »

Hats off to you. I had a fellow student who did this in grad school. We practically lived in our labs so it made sense. He had a van and he parked it in a big parking lot at Stanford. They used to let RV people park there overnight so it fit in. This was 25 years ago. Now I imagine they wouldn’t get away with that. Given Palo Alto rent.

He showered at the gym and prepared his food in the lab’s break room.

There was a downside so I thought I’d offer a tip. He got very depressed and eventually dropped out. I believe living in his van caused some isolation issues. He wasn’t exactly having parties out there.

Not sure what caused what. Maybe he was just depressed and he wanted to be in the van in the parking lot. I’m just mentioning it because living in a situation like that can become socially isolating.

Jin+Guice
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by Jin+Guice »

Niiiiiiiice. I lived in my office half the week in grad school and I lived at my job when I worked at a recording studio. It makes you see the world in a different light. Good luck. Befriend the cleaning staff/ late nighters if you can.

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mountainFrugal
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by mountainFrugal »

Props. Especially because you are spending a lot of time outside in nature.

AxelHeyst
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by AxelHeyst »

Ha! I love (genuinely) that you thought fatFIRE meant 500k. This place is awesome.

What does your leisure time look like, besides exploring the local trails? Do you work a full 40?

KRUMPn
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by KRUMPn »

I love the voluntary discomfort aspect of this (if you even see it that way?). Should make any other living situation after this a breeze. Also the fact that it has forced you outside a lot is great! This is part of my goal with small mobile living in the future. Couple of questions:
How’s your social life holding up while you’re doing this (worse, better, same)?
Do you think this will force changes quicker? I know for me if I get comfortable I get stagnant, so this seems like a great way to keep motivated.

Props for sure! It’s kind of funny that in the era of WFH you went in the opposite direction, I love it

basuragomi
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by basuragomi »

What are your sleeping arrangements? How much clothing/bedding do you cycle through?

Autotroph
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by Autotroph »

Thanks everyone for the interest in my journey, feels really nice to be around people who understand :-)

@Sclass, thanks for the tips. I still maintain a pretty active social life, so no issues there yet. I'm a bit introverted so I enjoy the solitude.

@AxelHeyst LOL I know right... $500k to me is fatFIRE :-D. I get about ~15-20 hours of exercise outside per week which includes either: hiking the local trails, cycling, or running. I'm fortunate to be in socal where there are a TON of amazing trails that are within biking distance, and of course the weather is basically perfect year round. I work about 30hrs/week right now, but I hope that will slowly go down over the years. I keep my mind occupied with various hobbies: chess, poker, reading, self-improvement, etc. So I have a lot to keep me busy! Never a dull day.

@KRUMPn yeah I like the voluntary discomfort aspect, although, to be honest, it's far more comfortable than I thought it would be. In fact, it's more comfortable in a lot of ways than being at my old apartment lmao. To that end though, I plan to run the badwater 135 sometime in the next 1-3 years, and do the race across america. I'm a big fan of voluntary discomfort/suffering, as that is where I have the most self-discovery. There is a lot to say on this topic!
My social life improved tremendously -- when I interact with people now I am very engaged and attentive. I'm not checking my phone or the news etc., I really value my time with my friends a lot more now. Now that I get so much solitude, I enjoy my time with others and look forward to it.
It did force changes quicker than usual, but honestly setting the goals I mentioned aboved forced the most change. I'm not saying I will be able to do what I am setting out to, but just attempting to has forced me to kind of dial everything in, i.e., my diet, sleep, etc. I have commited to the goals, and I have told a few loved ones which has helped keep me acountable. Training for these endurance races brought about the most change, mentally and physically.
My philosophy has always been to set my goals absurdly high, because I don't really fear failure. My main goal in life is to push my limits and 'not leave anything on the table', so to say.

@basuragomi I bought a 'japanese mattress' that folds up. I do laundry every two weeks

To add to Sclass's comment, I've struggled with mental health since my teen years, although now I have a treatment plan that works. A lot of accumulated stress mentally and physically really started to take its toll. Earlier this year I hit a low; I weighed >200lbs (which at 5'7 put me in the obese category), and I spent 95% of my time indoors. I lost a little over 70lbs so far this year, almost entirely through walking outside while listening to audiobooks/music. Eventually I changed my diet and other lifestyle factors -- one small change at a time and eventually it all started to compound!
I also took up running, which I hated for about 4-6 months until my endurance and strength improved. If I don't get outside and get exercise in daily I don't feel well mentally. I try to spend as much time outside as possible. I believe I have ADHD that went undiagnosed, and so being active and outside is unimaginably therapeutic for me. Nature is so stimulating -- all the various colors, sights, sounds, etc. Birds flying around, insects crawling, every direction I look is an entire ecosystem. All of the senses are being engaged, the fresh air, the wind, the heat from the sun, and there are always things to focus your attention on.
I know it's easier to be outside when you live in a nice area, but I am a believer in 'there is no bad weather only bad clothing'.

Jiimmy
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by Jiimmy »

This is awesome. Grats on so easily stepping away from the ‘norm’. I will follow this journal closely!

RealPerson
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by RealPerson »

Very impressive. I cannot wait to read more. What did you do with the lockdown/required work from home that I think was imposed by many places for to COVID 19? I.e. what would be plan B and how much time do you need to implement it? Would this be sustainable for a longer period? Not a criticism, just curious. Your setup sounds incredible.

Autotroph
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by Autotroph »

thank you :-D Perhaps I should start a blog
If I understand you correctly: my plan B, in the event I have to unexpectedly leave here, is to either:
1. rent an air bnb on a month-to-month basis until I figure out something more sustainable (hopefully 1-2 months maximum)
2. Implement some combination of stealth camping, staying on couches, etc. while using libraries/gyms/school for basic needs
3. Convert a van and do the whole #vanlife thing.

I've been doing a lot of research and, unless something extraordinary happens, I plan to implement (3) once I am done with #officelife. Problem is, I need to learn a bit more first: what van to buy, how to convert, where I can stay, etc.

My kind of 5-year plan moving forward looks like this (of course I always remain adaptable and open to different opportunities):
1. Live at the office for as long as I can, hopefully, another year or so. I'll invest basically all of my income, keep my expenses low etc.
2. A few months before I leave this living situation, I will get a van. I've been looking at cargo vans (e.g. ford Econoline models), sprinters, and similar. I'm thinking of getting one in the $10-20k range, financing it through a dealership. The only car I ever bought was like 14 years ago and it was $1k, so I am out of my comfort zone in this area.
3. Then I would like to travel the Western US, and potentially work somewhere in tech/finance (ideally remote or mostly remote). In any case, I will be living in a van so I can accelerate path to FI.
4. Then once I have some money saved up from the above, I am not sure what I would do next. Some options would be to get a nice house somewhere in socal and rent out all the spare bedrooms etc; buy some land in Ca/Mi either with a cabin/house or build one with some help, etc.

Autotroph
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by Autotroph »

I must admit, I'm having a lot of fun with this 'experiment'. So far I've saved a little over 3k from just rent alone, which I've invested. My savings rate is in the high 80's/low 90s. Really, my only expense is food, everything else is negligible. I've been trying to 'dial everything in'. Soon I want to start logging my water usage, power, etc. I like to have data to visualize, and I want to see how low I can (comfortably) get these numbers. I also want to look for patterns/correlations in the data eventually once I get enough.

For bathing it looks like this:
20oz of room temp water + 10oz of 200 (Fahrenheit) water in a bucket.
I do this twice, once to bathe my hair/face, and once for everything else. So I'm using about 60oz (~1.77L) to bathe, and I do this about 2-3x per week. So I'm using about, say, 23L for bathing per month. In the coming months, I'm going to try and minimize this, but I'm happy with where it's at. I guess part of it is fun, and part of it is preparation. Preparation for... life? RV living? I'm not sure.

Laundry is the most difficult process. I've been going to the laundry room at my old apartment complex (still have the key!) but it's a pain in the a**. Well, at least for me because I'm 'lazy'. I have tried doing it by hand and it's not worth it for me. I may buy a little portable washing machine (which I'll use for RV and/or tiny home later in life).


So here are some categories and variables of interest (this is just a sample):
Fitness
VO2max (good measure of cardiovascular fitness and aerobic endurance)
resting heart rate
sit up test, sit and reach test, etc.
body composition (I plan to get this tested)
resting metabolic rate
etc


Health:
hours slept per week
weight
body fat
nutrition/hydration (getting all the macro/micro nutrients I need, etc)

Money:
savings rate
credit score
net worth


Social
Seeing friends on weekend
keeping in touch with friends back home
playing video games with online friends
posting on forums/documenting thoughts
minimize impact by reducing resource consumption

Some loose 5-year goals: becoming FI, running/cycling endurance events (e.g. badwater 135, western states 100, race across America). I think most of my behavior is driven by these goals, and since these goals are going to be challenging, I have to 'optimize' various areas of my life (the categories above). Above all else, I am trying to become the 'best version of my-self' -- to self-actualize.

More thoughts on health:
I put a lot of value on health/fitness, because I believe this is a large fraction of 'quality of life'.
So with that, my first priority is to dial in my nutrition. I'm learning about macros now, and I realized my protein intake is way too low. The plan is more greek yogurt, sardines, and hard-boiled eggs to correct this. I also need to settle on some ratio, I'm thinking 40/30/30 (carb/fat/protein) but I don't know enough to say. Right now I'm just mapping the nutritional content of all my meals to see where I'm lacking. Once that is figured out, the next step is to ensure I'm getting all the other nutrients my body needs: fatty acids (mostly omega-3 and omega-6), fiber, iron, magnesium, etc.


More thoughts on fitness:
Right now, my legs are so sore I can barely walk. So far I have been focused on just getting more activity and reducing my weight. Now that I have that accomplished. I'm going to try and implement a training routine. To this end, I need to learn more about 'periodization', but the goal is to 'peak' at the time of the endurance events listed above. I've also been implementing functional strength training/calisthentics and yoga, which are really nice because they are highly efficient and require minimal equipment (typically nothing!)

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Seppia
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by Seppia »

I so much love what you are doing so huge props.
But the cynical and practical side of me cannot help but think that you could probably have 90% of the savings with 1% of the risk by just renting a sofa somewhere nearby.
That would help you spend some regular time off-site and go off the radar
I would think if you live 365 days/year in an office (and blog about it) you will be caught sooner or later.

Autotroph
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Re: living out of my office in pursuit of ERE

Post by Autotroph »

Thanks for the kind words and concern :-)
I don't mind risk, I typically enjoy it. The level of risk, for me, is not a cause for concern. If I get caught today it will all have been worth it, financially and otherwise. I was a bit nervous at first, but it has become my 'new normal' in a sense.
I spend 1-2 weekends at a friend's house, and once I replace my stolen bike I will experiment with dispersed camping (i.e. free) at some nearby locations. I like solitude, and with everyone working from home, I get a lot of it here. I'm not a misanthrope, but I can relate to them.

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