J+G gets a shipping container house

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Jin+Guice
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J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Jin+Guice »

I purchased a fully constructed shipping container house and am in the process of buying land and moving the house there.

I need to build a foundation for the shipping container house. Does anyone have experience with this? I got some great advice from @AH off forum, but I'm trying to get as many ideas as possible.

The shipping container is 40x8 ft.

I'm going to try to get the movers to roll the container off of a flatbed truck, so that needs to be considered in the foundation build.


I'm sure I'll have a million questions as I complete this process, but this is where I'm at now. Thanks y'all!

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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by jacob »

No experience beyond knowing that foundations depend on the land/climate. Concrete slaps in the south of the US. Basement and crawlspaces in the north where slabs would crack due to freezing water.

So it's important to know what kind of ground the foundation will sit on.

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mountainFrugal
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by mountainFrugal »

Sounds like a dope project.

Some quick ideas/things to consider having worked concrete in highschool:

The estimated weight of the container + vehicle to help determine minimum depth of slab and how much reinforcement within the slab. I am sure there is an engineering chart for this somewhere.

You will have to dig out the area to level it to make the forms. You want as even a slab as possible depthwise, or else you will have to consider different reinforcement if say one side of the slab is much deeper on uneven ground. Avoid this if possible. There are a number of tiny-home/ cabin builds on youtube that pour slabs to give you an idea, but there is less discussion of all these other planning components.

You will have to have a good idea of the water runoff on the land to avoid flooding and the freeze thaw cycle as @jacob said. Also, making sure that a potentially very large rain event runoff does not take out the material between the slab and the bedrock (think highway collapse in mountain canyons). How far down is the bedrock? Are there earthquakes in the area? (not sure what to do about this as my concrete experience was not in an earthquake zone).
If the slab is much larger than your container (i.e. you also want a patio), it will need the additional piece to be angled away from the 40x8 container area to move water away via gravity rather than towards your container.

The size of the driveway to your property and surrounding trees/veg to get a container sized truck (50+ feet at least) to back up in there to begin with and potentially a concrete truck if you do not want to DIY all the mixing. Having all of the concrete set for the slab at the same time is preferable so you want to get this done in one go. You could always add a patio later with handmixing as this slab could be much thinner.

Might also consider the expansion and contraction of the metal depending on the temperature swings (can look up online) and how your container will be attached to the foundation (likely not). Extreme desert environment comes to mind for this, but it is unlikely you would build there. This may not be an issue at all with the long dimension of the container being only 40 ft, but the slab and container will expand/contract at different rates depending on temp swings.

Jin+Guice
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Jin+Guice »

Thanks for the advice. To give some climate/ ground context: I'm in New Orleans. It freezes once or twice every few years, but generally pretty warm. There is a lot of rainfall. The ground is pretty level, but we are planning to raise slightly and level the ground with sand/ dirt before I build the foundation. For the container house, we are more likely to build pillars to put it on than do a slab, though a slab is possible. The added height from the pillars is definitely a benefit in an area that sees a lot of rainfall and occasionally really bad flooding.

basuragomi
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by basuragomi »

If you're trying to DIY it, I'd put the house on screw piles. Shipping containers are designed for that exact kind of point/edge loading, and you are under less time pressure to finish concrete pours. Get fill delivered, rent a mini backhoe for a few days, grub out/level/fill etc. what you need and screw in the piles. Not sure how the house will handle utilities but it's much easier to retrofit those in than with a slab.

You would need a test borehole or two done first to make sure the strata can handle the loading, but that would be true for any foundation. If you don't want to do the geotechnical engineering and can get away with it, overspeccing the screw piles is probably lower risk than hoping a big-ass slab on unknown soil doesn't differentially settle.

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mountainFrugal
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by mountainFrugal »

basuragomi wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:22 pm
If you don't want to do the geotechnical engineering and can get away with it, overspeccing the screw piles is probably lower risk than hoping a big-ass slab on unknown soil doesn't differentially settle.
Given these additional constraints this is a better potential solution.

Jin+Guice
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Jin+Guice »

One more add: My friend has 2 25 ft shipping containers on an adjacent property already. They are on different types of pillars. One is a storage shed, pretty low to the ground, the other is his house which is raised about 3 feet off of the ground. It's likely we will copy what he did, but we want to explore all options, bc we don't know what we're doing and are hiring people to do it for us. @AH was in favor of pillars dug into the ground.

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Ego
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Ego »

I have a little experience with this many years ago in SoCal. Check zoning before buying property. Consider leaving it on a flatbed trailer as that may allow you to completely bypass zoning restrictions. You can landscape around the trailer and it is already 3" off the ground. The cost of a trailer may be offset by the savings on property improvements. The easiest would be a truckload of DG and simple RV connections.

Jin+Guice
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Jin+Guice »

@Ego. Interesting. I checked zoning with the architect I am using and we should be good to geaux. If not, we are willing to proceed illegally... New Orleans doesn't have the strictest enforcement and we are tucked away nicely off the grid. Leaving it on a flatbed is an interesting idea though. What is DG?

The house has a water intake connection and sewage outflow connection which is already plumbed into the toilet and sinks. It's also got an electrical connection which is wired into a breaker box and then wired to the house. The dude I bought it from used all of these, so they are def functional.

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Ego
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Ego »

DG is decomposed granite. Here in SoCal is makes for a good base as it seems to discourage growth and is good drainage. YMMV.

We had to keep the trailers registered and the axels connected. If you purchase the trailer from a place that sells lots of them they may deliver it without wheels and tires which would make it way cheaper. They usually have jack stands in front so you would need some big ones for the back if you remove the wheels and tires.

The general idea is that you are parking a trailer home rather than building a regular home or installing a manufactured home which comes with a lot more bureaucracy. Your architect may not be too happy with the idea as it would make them redundant so you may want to avoid asking their opinion and go straight to the planning department.

take2
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by take2 »

Just flagging that keeping it on a trailer doesn’t really solve any future settlement issues if the ground is unable to cope with the load.

It’s a good idea if it eliminates permitting issues though. @Ego - I assume the DG was used to slope existing land up to the bed of the trailer / entrance to container? What was it actually parked on?

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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Seppia »

This is so cool. Care to share the cost of the operation?
Jin+Guice wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:43 pm
My friend has 2 25 ft shipping containers
Allow me to be annoying: 25ft shipping containers don’t exist. It’s either 20ft or 40ft
Could be important to know in case you’re planning on adding one somewhere and you’re taking decisions made on this measuring.

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Ego
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Ego »

take2 wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:31 pm
@Ego - I assume the DG was used to slope existing land up to the bed of the trailer / entrance to container? What was it actually parked on?
Actually the trailers were (and still are) parked on DG parking plots. I seem to remember it was dumped, flattened, tamped with a compactor and rolled with a large roller. I don't remember exactly what kind of base was used beneath the jack stands but probably some sort of concrete blocks. That said, annual rainfall is something in the neighborhood of 3.5". New Orleans may get a little more rain than that.

Jin+Guice
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Jin+Guice »

@Seppia: Thanks for the clarification, I thought the were 25ft and 20ft but, it makes sense that they would be 20ft and 40ft.
I got the container home plus another empty 20ft container for $8k, but they are in Northern Mississippi and I have to pay to move them. This is an insane deal, one of them is built into a fully furnished home and comes with all the "appliances" (biggest one missing is a stove).

I'm buying 25% of my friends land for $10k. The downside here is obviously co-ownership of the property which will make it much harder to sell. The property is part of a larger garden with another shipping container home. I've been living in a trailer on the property I'm buying a portion of for the last year.

The x-factor is how much it will cost to move it out there, get permits, build the foundation and makes any adjustments to the house required to close the permit out. I feel a little trapped by this, bc not knowing this detail makes it difficult to budget properly or know if I should be working extra to get more money than I have.

It's definitely going to be a little bit of.a struggle dealing with the garden manager and the property owner. We all have a somewhat shared vision for the garden, and are all friends, but who's vision gets realized and who is responsible for what is a source of potential future conflict. I think the property owner and I have worked out the important legal details like cost of maintenance and paying for taxes and utilities.

For where I'm living, leaving it on a trailer is probably not going to work long-term, bc we want to keep the garden looking nice and having a giant trailer parked on the ground out there isn't the aesthetic we're going for. It is useful to know if this ends up not working out and I have to move it somewhere else though.
Ego wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:25 pm
hat said, annual rainfall is something in the neighborhood of 3.5". New Orleans may get a little more rain than that.
Haha.

Laura Ingalls
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Laura Ingalls »

Seppia wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:18 pm
This is so cool. Care to share the cost of the operation?



Allow me to be annoying: 25ft shipping containers don’t exist. It’s either 20ft or 40ft
Could be important to know in case you’re planning on adding one somewhere and you’re taking decisions made on this measuring.
I think you are partially right 20ft, 40ft, and 45ft.

I have family in the shipping industry.

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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Laura Ingalls »

I would think about the vernacular style of high pillars and having a garage, tool storage, and chill out space underneath if the site is amenable. Definitely the most flood friendly.

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C40
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by C40 »

Jin+Guice wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:43 am

I'm buying 25% of my friends land for $10k. The downside here is obviously co-ownership of the property which will make it much harder to sell. The property is part of a larger garden with another shipping container home. I've been living in a trailer on the property I'm buying a portion of for the last year.
Will you legally split the lots and you fully own yours?

Interested because I talk about doing this with my family. (one of us buys a fairly large lot of land, entices other family to move there, and split the lots and sell to those who move there to avoid land/money problems later and allow people to leave and sell their part with few complications)

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Ego
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Ego »

@C40, something like that is getting popular here. They are using a loophole in condominium laws and calling it cloud condos. Typically condos have some common area that is owned by all. With cloud condos the common area is the sky above the property, everything else is owned individually. This allows them to divide the lot into smaller "condo" parcels without the hassles of actually subdividing the entire property, which is often not permitted by nimby zoning. Because the sky is the common area, there is no need for a home owners association and no monthly dues. The downside is the FHA does not recognize them yet so FHA loans cannot be used to buy them. I love loopholes and this is one that is really needed in areas with high housing prices.

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Jean
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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by Jean »

My dad built a container sized home on 8 pillars. It holds very well and you can work on individual pillars if it moves. But thé bedrock is quite close.

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Re: J+G gets a shipping container house

Post by AxelHeyst »

The following isn't a recommendation, just information or thoughts:
.'my' shipping container is sitting on railroad ties that were probably purchased for $5/ea. It's ghetto and illegal, but honestly nothing bad is going to happen as a consequence.
.as others said, the only points that need support are the four corners. In fact, if you try to make anything *other* than those four column points bear the weight of the container, it might mess it up. The weight-bearing area of containers is literally ~4"x4" times four.
.soil subsidance is a really big deal.... for conventional housing. If a sinkhole opens up under half of your container and it falls in, just rent a crane, pluck it back out, and set it on the ground again. Hercules could drop-kick your container off the truck and it'd be fine. Now, obviously, if you're going to spend time and money making nice deep concrete pilings, yeah, make sure they aren't going to wiggle around on you. But the thing at risk is *the piling*, not the house.
.Can hurricane winds knock a container off piers? I have no idea.

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