What constitutes a buy nothing year?

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Lemur
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What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by Lemur »

I guess it depends on how extreme you take it. Surprised I haven't seen a thread on this topic, but I've seen it mentioned in passing as a way to reset consumer habits.

For me, I think I do a decent job already with not buying things I don't need. At least compared to the average American consumer. But compared to the higher Wheaton level members here, I probably have some leveling up to do. The good thing is I avoid malls, shops, and most other places like the plague ... on the rare occasion I'm in one of those places I view it as 21st century anthropology or something.

Obvious things - I have a vice in my morning routine where occasionally I buy an energy drink. Its a small corner market in the deep suburb where I live. That is definitely a no-no and fails under a "buy nothing year." A small part of me is doing this just to see people in the morning and say hi to the same cashier and other customers I see in the morning...even a hermit like me has to get out. I switch to coffee most days which is much cheaper per serving but even then that is technically not necessary when just water alone satisfies a persons hydration needs and caffeine is really unnecessary ... especially if one is getting enough sleep which one should in a well designed life.

But what about other things?

1.) If I buy a birthday gift for my Nephew (just did today actually....) does that fail?
2.) I purchase deodorant or razors. Does that fail the buy nothing year?
3.) Groceries - we have to eat to live and these things are necessary for survival ... but other food items are pleasures. Where do you draw the line in a buy-nothing year?
4.) Now that I have a child going to school this year - we will occasionally be requested to purchase supplies or chip in on things. The easy thing to do would be to say that does not count but ... maybe there is creative work arounds?

I am wondering if I am taking this too literally or is the idea more of a journaling exercise to see exactly what you need vs want and making a deliberate effort to go as low as you can? I'm thinking about just doing an excel spreadsheet and listing out the days (September 1 to September 30) and just logging every single thing I buy or comes in as rent / bill. I haven't actually done that in years.

horsewoman
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by horsewoman »

Personally, I'm not the kind of person to keep at something for a year, but I found that even "buy nothing months" have a positive effect.

I think it is sensible to set the challenge up in a way that makes it not too hard to succeed - in other words, to work with the way you are (see above - I know I'd never stick it out for a year, so I set myself a month now and then).

In practice, that means setting aside a certain amount for things like gifts for your nephew. If it is an important thing for you, it should be ok to spend some money on it.
Same with groceries/toiletries. In the past I did the "envelope system" by Jordan page:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCr-54OH7IY
She's a typical "mommy blogger", so it may not be your usual fare, but the system works and is IMO perfectly suited for necessities in a no-spend-year. Also, this system trained me to no spend over the set amount, even now when I have been shopping with cards again instead of cash.

To come back to your question about the morning run to your corner shop - why not limit it to twice a week while you do your no-spend-time?
That would curtail some of the "frivolous spending" while still getting a few of the benefits of going amongst people.
It does not have to be black and white to be effective, as long as the spending is mindful.

What "buy nothing" months do for me - they are a "refresher course" to keep away from the consumer mindset. I do believe I'm not too low on the Wheaton scale, but it does happen now and then that my first thought is to buy something when I hit on a problem. Usually I catch myself and find a free solution, but the consumer is not completely gone from my mind. Training in mindfulness when it comes to spending and the surrounding habits, in essence.

ETA: I forgot about the child related spending - I do not include school related costs in my buy-nothing-months. I hope it is enough that I model responsible behaviour with money for my child, but our lifestyle (amongst other things outside her control) makes her enough of an outlier to "normal people". I don't want to make it worse by not letting her participate in a regular social life if possible, because I'm not spending money that month.

7Wannabe5
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

The energy drink- you answered the question yourself. What you are really paying for is the opportunity to get out and briefly interact with other members of your community. So, sub in another activity which serves this purpose. If at end of experiment you determine buying the energy drink was still best means of obtaining this experience then put it back in your budget.

Gift for nephew- I will make a number of suggestions loosely based on spiral dynamics model.

Purple- make him a lucky charm appropriate to the moon of his birth.
Red- teach or expose him to dangerous yet age appropriate gender oriented activity.
Blue- craft a gift or pass on something with sentimental value.
Orange- buy a gift.
Green-plant a tree with him or take him camping.
Yellow- give a great deal of thought to what very small gesture or gift would likely make greatest positive difference in his life moving forward. If this requires some expenditure of money or seems like an odd gift to others, so be it.
Turquoise- Some combination of Yellow and Purple.

Deodorant/razors- experiments with baking soda and growing beard.
Groceries- $2/day/person is a challenging level.
School supplies- head tax can’t be avoided without questioning concept of compulsory group education and current division of labor . IOW, without answering questions such as “Who is going to wash all of the disgusting snot rags produced by a herd of 5 year olds if Kleenex is not provided?”

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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by jacob »

It's a systems shock to your consumer-side during which you over the course of a year (there's no way to speed it up) switch it out with a non-consumer system. Not much different than a complete change of diet or health habits. Transcending your previous behavior operationally makes you a different person. You can still "go back" but in many ways that "journey" will be just as hard. For example, hard as it is to imagine today, I used to love window-shopping going into stores and malls to enjoy the displays even if I didn't buy anything that day, but now I find the activity entirely meaningless compared to all the alternatives that were previously unknown to me. Similarly I have a hard time enjoying "watching" stuff like sports or movies after having increased the "richness" of my own activities so to speak.

This describes a successful BNY. There are now very many who have written about it but I think this is the best. She also has a TedX talk somewhere:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/ ... othing-day
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/ ... -months-in
https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/ ... hier-wiser

Don't pay as much attention to the context-free details as much as the inner journey. It's not important whether you ride a bike or give up your coffee---that's just the method. What's important is the discovery of new perspectives, means, etc.

Personally I think BNY is a fantastic idea, but I'm in favor of https://earlyretirementextreme.com/usin ... -fast.html ...

Think of it as a Venn diagram between "current paradigm" and "future paradigm". In the beginning the overlap will be minimal. You'll be in a "scarcity"-mindset(*). The focus will be on all the things "you're giving up" because it's hard to understand what you're getting. There's a strong tendency to keep operating with your old system under the new rules. This sucks and its darkest after about 3 months at which point one realizes that this is not going to work. At six months there's enough inroads to the future paradigm to create some hope that you'll get through it... and at 9 you've discovered enough of the new world that it becomes possible to reflect back. At 12 usually people don't want to go back.

(*) As will others when you try to describe it too them... They'll immediately dial in on all the stuff you're "denying yourself" while skipping on how the world is opening up to you. Not super-surprising since they have no idea how to interface with these ideas. You might be called "extreme" or even "insane".

In that regard, I don't see the point of "short exercises" e.g. when people say they're going to do a BN week or a BN month. That's the diet equivalent of a fast, e.g. "meatless Monday". It has less apparent suffering but none of the benefits in my opinion.

I also don't see the point of "easy rules". I think the "only food and bills" is a good one. Food means food and not paying others to make it. However, I don't think others should be involuntarily dragged into it. E.g. keep buying the present for the nephew the way you always have rather than using this an opportunity to "lecture" him on "uncle's personal journey". If you and DW have some ritual e.g. a weekly restaurant dinner that means a lot to her, don't shitcan that either. Conversely, if your computer breaks during the year, tough luck---I hear the library provides free access/fixit has repair guides/someone has a spare/...

ONLY BUY MISSION CRITICAL STUFF, e.g. new furnace, suit if necessary for interview, ... like minimalism, it works 10x better if the whole household is in on it.

I'm subscribed to a BN group on fb. Most common fail I see is that someone sees a good sale and then convince them that since they just have to replace their couch eventually, they'll make an exception "just this one time" and buy it now. A possible way out of this is to allow yourself, say, 3 fails for the entire year. E.g. "forgot to bring water bottle, bought $1 bottled water because I was---wah-wah---warm" (fail 1), "favorite author published a book and I couldn't wait for the library to get it" (fail 2), ...

I'd also say that the success of a BNY or any "experiment" is set by whether one keeps doing it after the time-period is over. As such I don't appreciate how it's a buy nothing YEAR ... why not a buy nothing DECADE. Beware of using the time-limit to just postpone purchases all while sitting and making lists of what to buy after the "ordeal" is over. Seen that too.

Laura Ingalls
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by Laura Ingalls »

I am struggling with this issue in terms of healthy eating. I am on day 29 of whole30. I am feeling great. Lost weight (I have cheated and stepped on the scale). My digestive system has worked better.

Longer term it is not sustainable. It eliminates perfectly healthy food. It sucks 90% of the fun of eating out. The challenge is what keep and what too take the gas off on.

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Lemur
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by Lemur »

All great input…Just gonna start (day 1 over) and log in my journal when I come to these spending bridges or temptations. I’m thinking it is important to not overthink now after reading posts above and just do.

Speaking of Spouse eating out - we’ve done a good job of minimizing that but when they do occur my rule is “you get the cheapest meal on the menu and water only.” It is actually nice to have the choice eliminated. This is for me btw my Spouse does what she wants lol.

But all our trips to random snacking and the occasional fast food … usually after a stressful work day - yeah that is a vice I did not mention. This will test me slightly but shouldn’t be that hard to quit. Rule there - Spouse can do what she wants but I can always choose not to partake in these instances.

For family gifts - no problem here. They occasionally come over my place and order pizza which I never do but I love pizza … it ends up being a wash IMO and it is a real treat when you don’t partake in things (ordering pizza that is) but get to have them organically or through social functions.

Clothes - I’m 30 and still wearing shorts I had in high school…no problem with this category.

Car - Can’t dump this due to living situation but I can strategically plan things better to drive less. Maintenance costs suck but they’re better than ending up paying more for a repair due to lack of maintenance. Interesting we do have a market within a 10 mile bike ride … I just haven’t dared enough yet. My bike has a broken seat at the moment.

Entertainment - Tennis. Swimming (son and I have a pass already at the community pool). Running. Netflix (borrowed from brother we don’t have our own account.) Cooking. Playing with son. Watching martial arts fights on YouTube. Easy…I rarely if ever pay for entertainment and I’m not a movie buff. Though I did buy grip tape for my tennis racket a few days ago before the challenge started. Luckily I have two rolls left haha.

Kid - I love our local library. Parks are free. My son is almost 6. They certainly learn by example. School supplies and such happen. I’m not against spending if it means he can experience things / social functions. I think it is important to strike a balance here. One thing I don’t do is buy the latest video game consoles. One memory I’ve is my Grandfather made me cut grass about 20 times until I earned enough credit to get a Nintendo 64. I never forgot that lesson. The N64…totally worth it but I learned at a young age that there is a price to pay in time for fancy gadgets.

Social - yeah … I am longing to get involved in the community. I think these opportunities will be more frequent now that we’ve a kindergartner.

zbigi
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by zbigi »

BTW, does anyone else hates the "Buy Nothing Year" name for this excercise? Clearly, it means "Don't Buy Stuff You Don't Need", and not "buy nothing". The name is lazy, confusing and basically false advertising.

OutOfTheBlue
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

zbigi wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:22 am
BTW, does anyone else hates the "Buy Nothing Year" name for this excercise? Clearly, it means "Don't Buy Stuff You Don't Need", and not "buy nothing". The name is lazy, confusing and basically false advertising.
Yeah... That's why I renamed it to "Low buy years"

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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by jacob »

zbigi wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:22 am
BTW, does anyone else hates the "Buy Nothing Year" name for this excercise? Clearly, it means "Don't Buy Stuff You Don't Need", and not "buy nothing". The name is lazy, confusing and basically false advertising.
The term has become overused and diluted in some circles. The same has happened to FIRE or minimalism for that matter. The best way to define the conditions of the exercise is to make a detailed budget and then decide which categories to be zeroed out. The OG BNY exercises were pretty hardcore in terms of what needs one could pay for. It was basically only food, water, heat, and electricity. This meant cancelling the internet, restaurants, subscriptions, gym memberships, ... It's not like one couldn't have those things; one just weren't allowed to buy them and thus had to find a buy-nothing alternative(*). Ripped your work pants? Better get out the thread and needle. That kind of attitude. IIRC, the woman in the links I posted above went on a bicycle-vacation.

(*) And therein lies the whole point of the exercise.

liberty
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by liberty »

What constitutes a buy nothing year?
Death.

Life is about having fun, not living as cheap as possible. Buy things that give you value. I have sometimes been too cheap, keeping an old phone and old PC for years overdue. Buying things is good as long as it gives you higher value than the needed work takes value away.

Dave
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by Dave »

Yeah, the term is obviously not accurate in a literal sense, and thus needs to be self-defined.

It seems like the hard line needs to be somewhere meaningfully far along the spectrum away from "What I Currently Buy" to "Absolute Zero", at a point that is well past your comfort point and current ability/mindset to secure alternatives to common spending. The specifics vary a lot by individual lifestyle, current skills, pre-existing stock of assets/resources, and social network.

The key is to push hard to force creative solutions to problems previously solved by da moneys, not to coast through a set of constraints easily manageable with your current setup, while not being ridiculously constrained to the point of destroying value in other areas of your life (like if @Lemur didn't give a gift to his nephew in any capacity).

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Lemur
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by Lemur »

@liberty

I've become a broken consumer for the most part. I've a hard time buying things and most of my fun activities are free or really cheap. Just today, tennis at the park with my Brother and my Son playing with some random kid tossing rocks. Free. Also picking up Leo Tolstoy's Calendar of Wisdom collections at the library. Also free. I sometimes pretend I live in a dystopia and I'm finding new ways to explore. Its plenty of fun and lets me be quirky in plain sight.

Sure - a cheap person would not buy a tennis racket and forgo the experience altogether. A frugal person would find a really nice racket and realize each tennis game in perpetuity will cost less than a penny. Money might even be saved from reduced healthcare costs in older age.

Yeah my laptop is ready to blow lol. The only thing I concluded that has purchasing value outside of food, water, and shelter is caffeine. Out of all my various no buy year challenges that I've started/stopped over the years, the one I keep coming back to is coffee and energy drinks. For the former, I mostly make it myself but will take my Spouse out to a coffee shop as one of the things we like to do together. For the latter, I've made it about 10 days or so? Before I started indulging again. But will probably quit again because now I realize how much my sleep is getting jacked from this. I think I want to settle with only having 1-2 a week. Its manageable when purchased only on sale... Caffeine is one of the greatest things ever extracted from plants.

The only thing I allow to break my non-consumption habits is when I'm around family/friends. That seems to break it occasionally. Gift giving, outings, events, etc. One of the regrets of the old is when they say they wished they spent more time with family and friends.

No, I will not join my son's friends and their family to Disney World. That is grossly wasteful. But I won't turn down an invitation to a trampoline park because I don't want to pay the $20 entry.

Dave
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by Dave »

Lemur wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:15 pm
I sometimes pretend I live in a dystopia and I'm finding new ways to explore. Its plenty of fun and lets me be quirky in plain sight.
Hah, good one. That's creative.
Lemur wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:15 pm
The only thing I concluded that has purchasing value outside of food, water, and shelter is caffeine. Out of all my various no buy year challenges that I've started/stopped over the years, the one I keep coming back to is coffee and energy drinks. For the former, I mostly make it myself but will take my Spouse out to a coffee shop as one of the things we like to do together. For the latter, I've made it about 10 days or so? Before I started indulging again. But will probably quit again because now I realize how much my sleep is getting jacked from this. I think I want to settle with only having 1-2 a week. Its manageable when purchased only on sale... Caffeine is one of the greatest things ever extracted from plants.
I know this takes out a lot of the romance and ritual enjoyment out of brewing and drinking coffee, but if it's about $ then caffeine pills are the way to go. You can get 90 200mg caffeine pills for less than ~$3.5 at Walmart. So effectively a cup of coffee's worth of caffeine is free. Other benefits are it's much easier to stop consumption at the desired caffeine dose because while it's really easy to tell yourself "Ahh yes, I'm really enjoying this conversation, let's make another pot of coffee!", it's much harder to not stare addiction in the face when you pop another pill :lol:. This helps (me) regulate intake better, and thus helps with sleep as I'm pretty sensitive to it its insomnia effects. I also assume the environmental load per unit of caffeine is much lower when consuming in pill form as oppose to coffee, but that's speculative.

This may sound lame, but these days I'm taking 1 200mg pill of caffeine 90 minutes after waking, and drinking hot water in the morning. You get used to it and it's somewhat comforting in the way coffee is!

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Jean
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by Jean »

i could never be coffeine addicted, because coffee makes me feel sick after more than a few cups, and the enjoyment i get is only the taste and the ritual of preparing it.

chenda
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by chenda »

If I drink alcohol free beer I still feel tipsy. I wonder if decaff produces the same psychosomatic effect.

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Lemur
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by Lemur »

@Chenda

At my worst, I do a sugar free energy drink in the morning, a coffee at 12pm, and another coffee at like 2pm. Probably I’m getting around 600mg. I hard stop consumption at that point for sleep reasons. When my tolerance is up, I can sleep okay. It’s when I quit / get back on that I have issues again.

Decaf doesn’t do it for me. Though when I quit, I swap out the energy drink for a regular coffee and make further consumption decaf. It works occasionally.

Without caffeine, I just feel bland I guess. With it…intense focus, productivity, and creativity. My brother is also a caffeine junkie and gets the same feelings.

@Dave

I did this in my early 20s when I was getting to 7-8% body fat…I would take 200mg in caffeine form + yohimbine HCL on an empty stomach and then do a slow 90 minute jog. Really good for fat burning but your heart will beat like a drum.

I have dabbled in the idea of just making my own energy drink. All I would need to do is carbonate, add 200mg of caffeine in powder form, and flavor it up sugar free style. Also add citric acid. Ginseng, taurine, and niacin are other ingredients that are typical for energy drinks and can be added. I would have to research the right dosage and determine if that is worth my time.
Last edited by Lemur on Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

chenda
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by chenda »

@Lemur - yes I have a morning coffee and it always feels wonderful. I often have a second cup around lunchtime but it never feels quite as good as the first.

Dave
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by Dave »

@Lemur

Right on. Yeah, I know what you mean about feeling bland off caffeine with less focus/productivity/creativity. Some people say it can take months to get past this "stage", and I've tried 3-4 month stretches. Still not sure I ever got back to the caffeine level. Sure, less peaks and troughs, but the peaks are awfully nice for productive activities! Maybe I need to make it 6-9 months... :shock:

Truthfully though, keeping caffeine <=200mg and following Huberman's tip of having it 90-120 minutes after awakening (instead of right away) has reduced the afternoon crash and nightime insomnia quite a bit. This system seems to work for me.

Great idea to make your own energy drink, that'd be cool to dial in on exactly what and how much you want. It could be a nice combination of the caffeine/energy load and various micronutrients you're going for. 2 in 1.

loutfard
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by loutfard »

Jacob, I like how you see a buy nothing challenge as system shock to consumer habits, as forcing a paradigm shift.

I think I might have found a tiny corner that fits this: cycling to work. My employers pay me 0.225€/km to cycle to work. That adds up to about 2500€/year.

Buying an appropriate speed pedelec for my needs new would be the easy, no brains go-shopping alternative. In the medium term, I might even turn a small profit cycling to work. I'd have to buy into a closed ecosystems though. Bosch is the EU market leader. They keep a particularly tight grip on "their" motor/controller/batteries ecosystem by stuffing it full of digital restrictions management. Their oligopoly shows in their pricing too. None of this is my cup of tea.

So I've studied alternatives a lot. Turns out there's an ecosystem of good quality Chinese manufacturers with a non-zero EU speed pedelec market share. Mostly Bafang and Tongsheng do motors, Lishui and Kunteng controllers, and again Kunteng and Kingmeter displays. This ecosystem was mostly open, and still is more open than Bosch. Then there is a community of enthousiastic free and open source software developers tinkering around prying things open and keeping them open.

I've identified a number of second hand speed pedelec models from this category that should serve my needs exceptionally well. Total cost of ownership should be ~25% of the "obvious choice" closed ecosystem new models. For a safe, fairly legal and much more repairabe alternative. I should make 150€-200€ net a month cycling to work that way.

While that's not literal "buy nothing", I think it does qualify as an example of the creative mindset and agency I understand you to see as goals behind the "buy nothing" nomer.

berrytwo
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Re: What constitutes a buy nothing year?

Post by berrytwo »

I think the question in itself is helpful. What actually is a necessity? Should I buy all the ingredients to make shampoo or should I just buy shampoo? Is it buy nothing new? I think it's helpful to see the things that we don't directly buy but we are still able to use. What do I actually consume? Do I find it moral to consume this? Being honest with myself about ethicalness helps to create more lasting habits for me. I think the intention in creating new habits and mental shifts allows for it to become a lasting action versus just something to give up for lent and then just go right back to feening for more or mindlessly consuming once you are done. I am thinking about how buying "nothing" can be a non-zeroth effect with lifestyle design as well.

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