Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

The "other" ERE. Societal aspects of the ERE philosophy. Emergent change-making, scale-effects,...
jacob
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Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by jacob »

I'm doing another presentation on The Stoa similar in format to the first one but 99% in the direction of "emergent renaissance ecology" aka "the other ERE". The focus will be mostly in support of the yellow meme at the WL9 level.

Preregister to participate here on 9/2/2021 noon EST:
https://zoom.us/meeting/register/tJArdu ... ZZFjowQ1ph

Or watch it on youtube later (no registration required).

daylen
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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by daylen »

ERE Field Trip!

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by theanimal »

Hell ya!

7Wannabe5
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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Cool. I am watching the spiral dynamics videos. I started with the Blue one. Quite interesting. It helped me figure out why Blue men are sometimes attracted to Green women.

daylen
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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by daylen »

Leo also has a good series on Cook-Greuter's ego development theory. His forum on actualized.org has threads with examples for each color in spiral dynamics.

the_platypus
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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by the_platypus »

Excited for the presentation.

I get "sinister guru" or "cult-y ego maniac" vibes from Leo Gura. Maybe not so much in this video but definitely in other videos of his I've seen.

daylen
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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by daylen »

Sinister egomaniac cults are super educational.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

The yellow perspective might seem aloof and manipulative relative to other perspectives.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@rref:

Gotcha. That’s one of the reasons I prefer reading to watching videos, especially when I am attempting to consider the value of new information towards integration. Years ago I saw Bill Clinton speaking up close and live, and he was like the epitome of charismatic. But, obviously, he came off as “slick” to those who didn’t much like what he was selling.

Anyways, I would say that thus far I’ve been nodding along 70% in agreement, 20% reserve judgment, 10% that strikes me wrong while watching the spiral dynamics series. I’ve been ignoring Gura’s personal presentation style BECAUSE I am annoyed that the information isn’t in book form.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:57 am
I’ve been ignoring Gura’s personal presentation style BECAUSE I am annoyed that the information isn’t in book form.
https://www.amazon.com/Spiral-Dynamics- ... 1405133562

I'm enjoying the few videos watched so far....may be helpful in understanding wtf y'all are talking about here...

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by jacob »

Well, this got weird quickly... my mistake.

If you're going to show up on zoom---some active participation is semi-expected and lurking can get rather awkward---so I suggest focusing more on thinking about what this thing called the "meta-crisis" is, how it came about, and how to fix it at mass scale... than psychoanalyzing youtube presentations of spiral dynamics. SD is part of the vocabulary on The Stoa but you can get a quick overview on https://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/ov ... e-systems/

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by Lemur »

Oh finally ... I was wondering what all this color talk was lately. I'll be watching on YouTube later.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by AxelHeyst »

An article on the meta-crisis I enjoyed as an intro:
https://www.whatisemerging.com/opinions ... oo-excited

Reading about/understanding the difference between the meta-crisis and the metacrisis is also I’m guessing a good pre-viewing goal.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@AxelHeyst:

Great article. The "Science" article linked within was also very good. I happened upon this paper recently, and think it might serve as a well organized "prequel" to the "Science" article:

https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/art ... 576/304804

Obviously, a good deal of the meta-crisis has to do with our inabilities to process the time lags in Hypothesis 4, but I think that some of the inter-level angst might be resolved by full or wide recognition that Hypothesis 1 is not in play. IOW, fully dropping Hypothesis 1 at all levels might go some way towards alleviating "let them eat cake" friction. For example, pricing in the recreational value of the wilderness at Orange/Green, or reflecting back to Level Purple to price in the spiritual value of the wilderness at Yellow/Turquoise, is not going to compute at level Red/Blue/Orange.

For instance, when I was teaching in the city and gave up owning a car, one day I was walking home and chatting with a 19 year old immigrant girl who was telling me about her difficulties with evading her father's druthers in order to attend a local college, and she mentioned that she and her friends had sympathy/empathy for me, because "Poor Ms. 7WB5, she has no car and must walk like us."

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by daylen »

I use to roll my eyes at Pinker's optimism, but now I see that he is exceptional at encouraging the blue->orange transition. He is coming out with a book called "Rationality" which will reach relatively far. I wonder who the female equivalent is? Feels like a niche with great potential.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I'm not sure if Pinker is really Blue/Orange cusp. I suspect he is not. OTOH, I believe he is pretty uni-sex. IOW, on the Feel/Think/Do spectrum, he is very much Think. The Blue to Orange realm of Do is where gender schism still remains very evident. For instance, I subbed for an engineering design class provided with all sorts of very cool software, high tech tools, and resources, at an affluent suburban high school, and the male to female ratio was 10 to 1, just like my experience in engineering school more than 3 decades ago. This might have to do with young women still having more difficulty reflecting back to Red from Blue, because females are admonished towards "clean' and "gentle" and "aesthetically pleasing" at earlier age than boys. So, for instance, although I can clearly remember attempting to build a go-cart around age 9, I had zero knowledge about auto mechanics at age 19. I also find video games designed to appeal to middle-aged females about as appealing as porn designed to appeal to middle-aged females; not a good fix for what is "wrong" with video games and porn designed to appeal to young men. Definitely an underserved because not yet fully understood niche.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by daylen »

Pinker himself is more green for sure (perhaps with a touch of yellow). Though, often the audience of "gurus" is color offset. For instance, Jordan Peterson has quite a bit of yellow in him but much of his audience reaches into the blue/orange cusp.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by jacob »

daylen wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:09 am
For instance, Jordan Peterson has quite a bit of yellow in him but much of his audience reaches into the blue/orange cusp.
Wait wha?!? I see JP strengthening the red->blue bridge (insofar that is done out of a strong concern for latent/protofascism that makes him yellow) with a message of following [outside] standards/rules. Clean up your room. Don't lie. Don't throw rocks if you live in a house of glass. Straighten yourself out. Have a sense of shame. Stay in line and be proud of doing so. Set an example for the children.
The blue->orange bridge belongs to the rationalist community who insist on proving everything with formop and scientific publications (lesswrong, Pinker, Harris, etc.).

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by daylen »

Yeah, you're right. I think perhaps I am conflating more of his recent YT content that pops up in my feed. His newest book is called "Beyond Order" (which is still more rules). He is a complicated character, that is for sure.

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Re: Resolving the Meta-Crisis With Emergent Movements and Post-Consumerist Praxis

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I think Peterson could be best characterized as Anti-Green.

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