Methods and examples of highly developed social capital

Fixing and making things, what tools to get and what skills to learn, ...
Western Red Cedar
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Re: Methods and examples of highly developed social capital

Post by Western Red Cedar »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 6:30 pm
From the WL6>7 thread,

I'm interested in:
1) Stories/examples of how folks have employed high level social skills/capital, and what yields those skills/capital generated. Particularly where one could have employed a technical skill (fix leaky sink), but chose to employ social skill instead (did/called in a favor with a plumber friend). The idea here is to help forumites get a sense for ways social skills can be employed that they might not have considered before.
2) Thoughts and stories of how folks have developed high level social skills/capital. Books? Experience? Nature vs nurture? The use of social skill to develop social skill (i.e. by hanging out with a high-social-skill friend in order to learn methods)?
ETA 3) Mixing technical and social skills. (e.g.: social + cooking skills = start a "dinner and conversation nights" thing, which positions you as a social hub)
One approach that works well for me is to try to develop skills and build relationships simultaneously. Healthy relationships are an element of my web of goals, so learning from and helping out friends and family represents a natural path toward developing skills.

Some examples:

1. A few years ago I had woodworking as one of the skills I wanted to focus on. I decided I would build a table and found some plans online for a cheap, farmhouse style table from dimensional lumber. I decided I would build it with my dad to learn from him and make sure it turned out okay. We went to one of the locally owned stores and they didn't have what I was looking for, but I snagged some beautiful, thick blue pine slabs for the table top and benches, and hemlock for the trim and bench legs. My dad has never been into power tools, and I soon realized we weren't going to be able to make the cuts I needed with his hand saws. I sidelined the project for a few months, but brought it up with a few loose acquaintances when I found out they were into woodworking. Both of the guys I discussed it with would have helped me if I followed up, but I ended up working on it with my brother-in-law over a few weekends. I turned out great and it was the longest time I'd spent with my brother-in-law. It's a nice memory, and something we share. My sister really liked the look, and when they bought a new house he built a really large farmhouse table for their dining room. The whole experience really solidified the notion that "I built that feels better than I bought that" discussed in ERE.

2. I brought my guitar with me both years I taught English in South Korea. Each time I found a coworker who also played and had a guitar with them. Both times I was clearly the inferior player, but we would regularly meet up with our guitars and some beer on the weekends. I was gaining much more from these interactions, but they always had fun. I'd often bring a new song that I wanted to learn, and they would pick it up quickly and teach it to me. I met up with one of them in the States two years ago, and he was really impressed with all of the progress I made. I credit those relationships with really learning to play my guitar. I'd happily teach one of my friends if they wanted to play, just as a means of hanging out and pursuing a shared interest.

3. I've been interested in hunting for a while and think it would be a natural fit in an ERE framework. Every year I go on a camping trip with guys from middle/high school. We have a core group, but there are often a few others who filter in and out. Some of them have become regulars. I found out a few (what I would call really loose acquaintances) regularly hunt. They all go out separately with other groups, but they all offered to take me out and show me the ropes. They know I'm a backpacker and one of them was talking about a backcountry/backpacking hunting trip. I never followed through with my hunter safety test because of Covid, but know that I have that network there if and when I decide I want to go hunting.

-----

As a bit of a counter example to number 1 above, I persuaded my parents to fire their financial advisor. They knew that I was learning about investing and tax optimization, but kind of got swindled by an insurance salesman masking as a financial advisor. I happened to be over for dinner one night when he stopped by. We were talking about a social security loophole that the IRS was closing that allowed a spouse to maximize their earnings by claiming early. He didn't know about it, and said something to the effect of "I don't get involved in politics." He seemed like a polished salesman and was pushing annuities pretty heavily even though my parents have plenty of income through a pension and their social security.

It took a few weeks of discussions, and a PBS Frontline special on financial advisors and fiduciaries, but they ultimately got rid of him. I convinced them to ask him to sign a fiduciary statement, and he wouldn't do it.

------

In regards to number two above, I'm just naturally curious about people and their stories. I tend to ask a lot of questions to help fill in the story. I am a bit of a geography nerd, love cities, and travel so I'm always curious where people are from and why/how they ended up here. As someone said upthread, you have to avoid it coming across as 20 questions if it is a new relationship.

It also helps to be curious or interested in a lot of subjects. People love to talk about their hobbies or interests.

Jin+Guice
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Re: Methods and examples of highly developed social capital

Post by Jin+Guice »

Campitor wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:11 pm
If you want to find out who is really your friend just make note how many times you're invited to get together when there's no "capital" to be exchanged except for pleasantries and/or shared interests.

I have friends who invite me over just to talk or have dinner. Then I have "friends" who only invite me over so at the end of the evening they can ask for my "help" on a home improvement project. The former are my true friends and the latter are just people bartering a meal for my expertise.
I'm highlighting this because other social threads have had similar arguments and I used to think in this way.

I would dissuade members of this forum from thinking of "social capital" like this. Calling it "capital" can be deceptive.

I do not encourage people to make most of their relationships about extracting material or financial resources from people. I encourage you to look at your existing relationships and see what flows of resources you are already getting and giving and ask if this situation could be improved in a mutually beneficial way. Once you've done this, I would encourage people to try to extract a resource from someone using social skill (this will work best if the other person wants to give you the resource or, better yet, if you seek advice that they like to give about a subject they have mastered). I think this is a useful skill, but I understand why it would be controversial and not for everyone. In most cases, examining existing relationships is your best bet and should, imo, always be your primary strategy.

Additionally, if you consider the social economy of time, attention, emotionally energy and effort, a fiend who invites you over to talk is extracting a large amount of resources from you (and possibly vice versa). Also, dinner is a capital asset 8-)

I've been kind of waiting for someone to make the argument that I quoted, so sorry to pick on you @Campitor. We don't interact much, but I'm a huge fan of your posts!

Campitor
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Re: Methods and examples of highly developed social capital

Post by Campitor »

@Jin+Guice

I think I did a poor job explaining what I meant in my post you quoted.

I put the word capital in quotes because I believe the term "social capital" is being used as a euphemism for "using friends" by those who seek out friendships only for this reason.

I never have or will base my decision to make a friend based on any value they can provide other than being a good companion. When I'm only invited over for "capital" extraction, it's very obvious to me. It's akin to a woman noticing that her boyfriend only calls her when he's making a booty call or when a lottery winner suddenly has the tremendous outreach from family and friends who haven't been around for a multitude of years; both know how their friendship is truly being valued and that the invitations to hang out will evaporate as soon as there's nothing of value to extract.

Real friendship shouldn't be based off of anything other than the true desire to be friends. I understand that friends sometimes need help. And a true friend who has the ability to help should provide assistance if its within their means to do so - this is what friends should do. Forming relationships primarily or only for quid pro quo exchanges is toxic and puts a negative energy on social interactions.

So when I see articles regarding social capital, where the emphasis is on how to extract it instead of how to provide it, I just think someone is fishing for techniques on how to be a better social vampire. This is the reason you see quotes regarding "givers need to set limits because takers never will."

AxelHeyst
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Re: Methods and examples of highly developed social capital

Post by AxelHeyst »

In other words, social capital flows ought always be an incidental yield, a first or second (but not zeroth) yield, in the context of friends?

It does get tricky to discuss this topic and avoid exploitative mindset thinking doesn’t it. There is a difference between analysis “what yields have I benefited from via my relationships? How can I best utilize those yields?” And exploitation “how can I mine my friends for free stuff?”

“To the extent your personality thrives with it, develop social skills and relationships. Engage in deep relationships to the extent that you find enjoyable and maintainable for the inherent value and joy in human interaction, and your life will be rich as a result. Don’t be a people pleaser, have clear boundaries, and don’t be on the take.”

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Methods and examples of highly developed social capital

Post by Western Red Cedar »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:38 pm
In other words, social capital flows ought always be an incidental yield
I think this is probably a good way to think of it. Agree with everyone's sentiments above about avoiding transactional relationships.

In response to the OP, I think the level of effort and time associated with a request is important. I'm usually really happy to chat with someone about my area of expertise and point them in the right direction for their projects. I can probably save them a couple grand in consulting fees (or much more) with a 15-30 minute conversation. I'd feel differently if they were actually asking me to draft up documents, contracts, or do other "work" though.

It's one thing to ask your carpenter/plumber/electrician friend about how they might solve a problem. It's another to ask them to come over for half the day to work on your project for free or at cost.

Another example of yields and social capital that popped up this weekend was a request to help my friends mom (who I know really well) come up with some options or a financial strategy as she approaches retirement. I'd be hesitant to spend much time on something related to my actual job, but personal finance is one of my favorite hobbies. I'd happily sit down with them for 3-4 hours and talk about finances, taxes, and cost-benefits of when to take social security because it interests me and I know it could have a significant impact for her.

-----

I also remembered that my best friend's dad was a plumber when I was younger. I think he came over at least 2-3 times to help with emergency situations and didn't charge my parents anything.

Sometimes it really helps to have a wide network that you can call on in times of need. As a kid, this often revolved around the church. There is a strong element of charity, sacrifice, community, and support in that social circle.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Methods and examples of highly developed social capital

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I think the perspective on whether or not you are being “used” or a “user” for any given resource greatly depends on relative supply and subjective valuation in the social field. In emotional terms, generally if you are proud of possessing a resource and feeling abundant in that possession, you will rarely feel “used” by those who seek it from you unless you were covertly hoping for something different or some other form of validation from them in trade. Rule of free zucchini.

Jin+Guice
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Re: Methods and examples of highly developed social capital

Post by Jin+Guice »

I think it's more a question of intent and mentality than anything else.

It's not possible to enter into relationships without some exchange of resources, so everyone participates whether or not they admit it and accept the default option or not.

Acquiring skill in exploiting social capital should make you a greater social asset, not a social and economic pariah.

Gaining yields from relationships and enjoying those relationships aren't mutually exclusive.

If you view people as things to extract resources from, you'll enter into relationships where you use people (even if you only use them to extract social and emotional resources).


Two possible ways of gaining boat access are 1) have a current friend who has a boat and ask them to go boating or 2) go to the marina and talk to boat people until you befriend one. If you don't actually like the boat person you befriended, both of you are eventually going to be worse off.

It is highly possible that you and the boat owner are both made better off by your "transactional" boat seeking relationship.

Assuming you have relatively consistent wants and needs, the more relationships you enter into, the less you need to extract from each individual relationship. The greater your skill in giving and getting, the less burden you place on each individual relationship and the more others get from you, making you less of a burden.

Entering into relationships for purely transactional reasons assumes a scarcity of both social and economic resources, otherwise, why not only receive things for people you truly enjoy?

In other words:
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:25 pm
In emotional terms, generally if you are proud of possessing a resource and feeling abundant in that possession, you will rarely feel “used” by those who seek it from you unless you were covertly hoping for something different or some other form of validation from them in trade. Rule of free zucchini.

white belt
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Re: Methods and examples of highly developed social capital

Post by white belt »

I'm going to plug this article that I've seen referenced a few times in other threads related to social class: https://web.archive.org/web/20151006183 ... n-the-u-s/

I think in the USA it is useful to consider the social class of yourself and the people you're interacting with in order to better navigate social waters. Similar to how Jacob talks about having an easier time socially if you're a "normal" person, you'll probably have an easier time interacting with those of your same social class. However, a typical renaissance man will have a breadth of pursuits that will likely bring him in contact with a far greater range of social classes than the typical salaryman or workingman.

Obviously, like any lens it can be over-applied, but nevertheless I think there is value in being able to anticipate how a person will react to a certain gift, good deed, or action. I grew up G3 so I'm definitely a native in that environment, but I found the categorizations do provide some explanations for interactions I've had in the past with L and E (mostly L as I've probably only interacted with a handful of E's in my life).

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GandK
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Re: Methods and examples of highly developed social capital

Post by GandK »

I don't have many strategies for how to care more about others. Partly this comes with age, and with the realization that you can connect with almost any person about something, if only you find the thing.

As far as developing social capital, the one thing I've learned to do as an Introvert whose friends mostly live far away that has seriously helped, is to touch base on a regular basis with every single person I'm interested in developing a better, or keeping an ongoing, or healing a broken relationship with. It takes seconds and costs nothing to send a text. Do it once a month at least. Put it in your calendar if you have to. "You've been on my mind lately. How are you?" or "What are you reading right now? I like the way you think and I need a new book
:)" or "Time to get coffee soon?" These should help anybody. It's difficult to develop social capital if you let relationships fizzle through carelessness.

Finally, because everyone will eventually get on your nerves: assume goodwill in all people at all times. It usually helps social capital development to use that lens. People usually want to build their relationships (for whatever motives), not destroy them. Most do not deliberately sabotage themselves by alienating others. When they do so, it's probably accidental. I think a lot of us assume malice or snobbery or some other negativity when what we see is plain old social clumsiness.

gettingfired
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Re: Methods and examples of highly developed social capital

Post by gettingfired »

I am definitely a person who has enjoyed a lot from social capital such as:
- never had a car but people always offer to drive me (I do use public transportation most of the time, I for occasions such as buying a mattress or going somewhere a bit off the road);
- when I'm sick-ish or need a prescription, I just call a close friend who is an MD. I haven't been to a family doctor since I was a kid;
- I get free books from a friend who works in publishing;
- most of my clothes and shoes are from a friend who loves shopping and she selects a big bad of almost new clothes/shoes to donate (to me) every six months;
- a lot of the things I have at home and probably 80% of my kitchen utensils were hand-me-downs from friends or family;
- a close family member is a hairdresser so I never paid for it;
- several friends live abroad and I always have free accommodation in a variety of countries available;
- I needed lawyers on two occasions and didn't pay for them (one is my best friend's mom and the other was a sort of "repayment" for something my stepdad did for him).

On the other hand, I have the reputation to be available to help whenever needed. I have the keys to several of my friends' houses to water their plants when they're away, I always help when someone moves, help the ones abroad with paperwork in the country, bring small gifts or food when visiting, etc.

While I don't feed into the relationships for the sake of social capital, I am very grateful for what it brings me.

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