seanconn's journal

Where are you and where are you going?
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seanconn256
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seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

I figured I would start a journal to better account for my progress, and to keep me honest. If there's one thing I've learned from doing targeted goal-setting and expense tracking, what my gut feeling about what's going on usually has nothing to do with reality.

For my intro; see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11976

I've been looking into the "systems thinking" side of ERE for a little bit, and I still have got more research to do in that regard. My next note after this one should be more about that.

For my first entry, I'll go through where I am and what I'm working on money-wise.

Right now I'm saving 50% of my income, and here is what proportion those other things take up:

Code: Select all

<category> 	<percent of total>
rent 		24.5
car		8.5
groceries	5.5
eating out 	4
utilities	3.5
everything else 4
(I've simplified out taxes here - but I can assure you they are accounted for)

To go in order:
Rent -
Rent is something I'll be reducing pretty soon. I'm currently in a "luxury apartment complex" that is meant to serve all the wealthy people that live in my area. They take out my trash, have a pool, a gym, my own washer and dryer, all that nice stuff I don't really need. I'll be able to instantly cut this in half by getting a normal one-person apartment, and even more when I move in with my girlfriend (aka DW?) after she graduates.

Car -
The car is an interesting one. I'm currently in a long distance relatonship, but once she graduates getting rid of the car is a very feasable option. I did competitive cycling in college, so I already have a nice (too nice) bike and the requisite maintenance/riding skills. I am also going to try and work from home more too, so that should make it even easier. I'm currently in the market for a bike cart, I've seen some good threads on that here.

Groceries -
Groceries is the one I am most focused on right now, as it's the easyest. Eating more staples (ouch), and less meat and processed stuff will make me healthier and cost about half as much as what I currently am spending. Lentils are overpowered.

Eating out -
Eating out is another interesting one; I hate eating out. a lot. But my girlfriend eats about 2-3 times a week (I have been told this is normal), so I've compromised with her at eating out once a week (when we see each other) with us alternating who pays. I've recently gotten her to agree to eat out only once every other week, as she recognizes it as a bad habit. This should improve with time.

Utilities -
Utilities are phone, internet, water power etc. I can save money here, but I'm going to focus more on the big ticket items first.

Everything else -
Everything else comprises the video games and consumer products I purchase, I'm taking this on case-by-case basis. (eg replacing the swiffer with a mop, washing my own car, why not just play dwarf fortress more (free game) instead of buying new game etc)

So if I achieve all these reductions in spending, I get to a savings rate of

Code: Select all

 50 (pre-existing) + 12.25 (rent) + 8.5 (no car) + 2.25 (eating staples) + 4 (not eating out) + 1 (less products) = 78% 
If I want to keep the car, and just wait for my car payments to stop, that puts me at about 73% after two years of 69.5%. Either way, not too shabby.

To end part 1; I understand that saving money is just one part of ERE. My defense for focusing on spending now is that I've got at least 6-7 years to figure out systems stuff, but money saved now is the best kind of money (other than money saved yesterday).

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seanconn256
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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

Second entry, systems time.

So I've been looking around at the more actually-ere part of ere for a little bit, and I've come up with a systems diagram for the things I do in my life that provide substance.
I did notice a lot of inefficiencies, which have helped me move forward a little bit in planning my life better.

Here's my graph:
Image
(I wanted to add linux administration, connected to useful skills, frugality, and doing interesting things but I couldn't figure out how to add it)

One thing I've learned is that having cheap hobbies makes things a lot easier for me to do guilt-free, and I've found that cheap hobbies usually require learning skills or doing things the hard way, which I enjoy.

For example, calisthenics is more difficult than normal weight lifting, but except for a pull up bar and something to do dips on, requires no equipment, and trains muscles in a way more useful to daily life. Drawing requires effort and imagination, but is mostly free (paper is cheap and drawing tablets last a long time), but teaches a potentially marketable skill. DnD requires some social skills and intelligence, and requires you to learn the game, but is completely free (you can find the books online) and teaches social skills and helps with imagination.

Basically, cheap hobbies are the best hobbies.

And cycling for transport is overpowered, any money you spend maintaining the bike is nothing compared to gas (especially now) and the other benefits (cardio, local area knowledge, getting time outdoors) save more time than they use. I mean my grocery store is ~2 miles away, is basically only a couple minutes faster to drive. I still need my car for now, but I'm using it less which is a good thing.

I think that's it for systems thinking for now? I find it a useful way to look at things, but considering money and time are the main resources I spend to do anything, it doesn't really help me analyze that?
Am I doing this right? Is there a better way to think of this? I'm mostly going off the book.

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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by mountainFrugal »

Looks like you are getting the hang of it! Drawing also sharpens your observation skills if drawing from life and your ability to focus which are both transferable mental skills you could consider adding to your graph.

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seanconn256
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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

mountainFrugal wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:05 pm
Looks like you are getting the hang of it! Drawing also sharpens your observation skills if drawing from life and your ability to focus which are both transferable mental skills you could consider adding to your graph.
Thanks! It's nice to know I'm not completely off base.

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seanconn256
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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

Also quick third entry; the ERE wheaton scale (https://wiki.earlyretirementextreme.com ... ton_Levels) has really helped me understand something. Not so much where I am, I knew I was at optimization, but the reactions to where I am.

Doing things that seem totally cool and simple to me are seen as crazy to girlfriend (I estimate she's at level 1 because of college woes but will be at level 2 within a year to pay off debts) and since I'm three levels away from her, the things I mention are crazy.

I suggested turning off the AC (just to try it out), making her gifts instead of buying them, retiring early, saving at 50%, not spending thousands on vacations, not going to starbucks etc, and she calls me crazy.

I don't mean to air my relationship dirty laundry on an internet forum, I really don't wish to complain about her, but I wanted to mention that it makes sense now that things that are very (very) useful to me sound crazy to her.

I should also express that she has indicated that she respects how responsible I am with money, and has joked in the past about how she might want to do ere someday. I know she's just at a different level than me right now, and that's okay.

Thanks internet forum for letting me see it that way.

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seanconn256
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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

checking up;
I'll be leaving my apartment at the end of the month, I haven't picked a new one yet but I found on in a cheaper area that shaves about 500$ off my current rent, and has all the same amenities, so I'm looking forward to that.

I've been working on doing more things myself. This month I've changed my own oil, fixed my bike, fixed my watch, performed general car maintenance, and started working out at home. I also fixed my computer, but I would have done that myself anyways. Even with buying the required tools, I'm on budget this month.

Pretty sweet.

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seanconn256
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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

Checking in again, here's an updated graph:

Image

I removed frugality from the graph; because frugality is a means to an end for me. I want to be independent and not have to work as much as I do, and frugality (and eventually more systems oriented ways of living) is a means to that.

That leaves my exercise activities in a special bubble of their own, which I think is more accurate. Right now, they don't really connect to anywhere else. I don't cycle for transport, and don't use my strength in my everyday life.

My current plans are to do more research and thinking into the life design/systems stuff as opposed to the money side of things. I've been hyper-focused on money, and that's not a good place to be.

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seanconn256
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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

Some minor developments;
I moved apartments, and it ended up being very expensive. I went quite over my budget.
As a result, I'm doing something I should have done anyways. I'm selling the things I never use, and trying to use that to salvage my budget.
That includes, my RC stuff (haven't used in a year plus), piano (ditto), old joystick, game console (not used since before college), and my uber fancy bike.

I've been meaning to trade out the nice (~1250$) bike for a while, as I don't ride too often or too far, and certainly don't do cyclocross for which it was designed, but the fact that the bike trailer hitch wouldn't fit right was the last straw. I'm going to get a much cheaper bike and sell the nice one. I'm sure they will be functionally identical and much better considering it can get stolen while I get groceries.

Speaking of, here is said bike trailer. Cost me 35$. Used once according to the owner. Got that idea from a thread on here, should reduce my car mileage even more.

Image
Last edited by seanconn256 on Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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seanconn256
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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

Positive update:
I've only used my car once in the last week. I've biked a total of around 20 miles, which is a lot less than I used to do but it's still a lot of effort.

Also, I spoke with my GF about ERE, and while she has always been receptive in theory when I told her that I intend to retire in 10 years, of which I have already completed one, her eyes lit up and she said she wanted to see my budget sheet. She then asked some very practical questions about what I've budgeted for, and said that 400$ a month (per person) for rent was not realistic. I consider this a huge win, because the hurdle of convincing someone that yes, you can retire early is a LOT harder sell than finding a one or two bedroom apartment for 800$ (they don't write books or make forums about the latter). She also suggested that this is all pointless if she wants to continue working, to which I responded with the fact that if FI she could work part time, work for whoever she wants, take long (long) vacations between switching jobs, not worry about money, etc and she definitely got it.

Very good week, hopefully the start of a good month.

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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by jacob »

seanconn256 wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:46 am
...finding a one or two bedroom apartment for 800$ (they don't write books or make forums about the latter).
Hard to write a book or run a forum about a simple craigslist search ;-)
https://chicago.craigslist.org/search/a ... =all+dates

For more complications (leverage), google "house hacking" for books and blogs.

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seanconn256
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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

jacob wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:24 am
Hard to write a book or run a forum about a simple craigslist search ;-)
True, what I meant was that it's not so complicated as to need a book or forum to understand, meaning it's an easier sell to my GF than ERE

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seanconn256
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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

Still having a good month, I've sold enough stuff to recover about half of my over-budget month last month, and after finally absorbing the information on SEPP/72t and conversion ladders I upped my 401k contribution enough to save me a considerable amount in taxes a month. This makes saving a lot easier. I'll have to pay the taxes later (probably), so it's a little bit of false gains. I expect to live on a lot less when I hit FI, so my tax rate will be pretty low in the future anyways.

Another thing is I feel like I'm thinking about ERE the wrong way still. I know that it's not really about money, but is more about organizing your life to need less money, and therefore not have to work after a saving period.

The ways I've structurally changed my life since starting ERE (or attempting ERE? not sure how to phrase that) have pretty much been that I don't buy new toys every time I have money, moved into a more reasonable apartment, don't have expensive hobbies anymore, I don't eat anything with a brand name, and I use my car a lot less.

When I look at it like that, I've been living a more efficient version of the same life. I think if I'm going to go further, I need to think bigger. I read something either on the blog or the forums here that incrementalism is overrated.

One of the things that I have been putting the most attention towards in that area is my car. I pay around 260$ car payment + insurance + gas so it can sit in the parking lot a good 95% of the time. I have major hurdles in the way of eliminating the car, namely these:

- how do I explain to my family?
- how do I explain it to my girlfriend?
- what if I need to get somewhere quickly that's more than 10 miles away from me?
- what will I do in the winter? during storms?

Basically, in the modern American understanding of success, having a car is basically a prerequisite. I simply do not have a good way of explaining why I, despite being able to afford one, would sell my car. I haven't told anyone in my life about ERE except for my girlfriend, so this constitutes a considerable mental block for me.

Also a note; I'm going to try to build a small bookshelf this or next month. Should be fun, I've wanted to get into woodworking.

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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by shaz »

- Why does your family need to know that you sold your car?
- Tell your gf, "It's an ERE thing I am trying. If I hate it I will buy a car, no big deal."
- How often do you have to get somewhere quickly that is more than 10 miles away? Can you Uber, rent a car, carpool, or take public transportation? Same answers for winter/storms although cycling during the winter doesn't have to be horrible. It does help if you live near convenient transit lines. I once drove a realtor crazy by insisting I would only look at homes that were close to a good bus line.

If you are really worried about the logistics of being carless, you could commit to not driving yours for a month to see how it goes.

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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by macg »

I got rid of my car at the beginning of this year. Pre-pandemic, I lived at this apartment for about a year, and I used it maybe 3 times a month, purely because I had it. During the first year of the pandemic, I didn't use it at all.

Since I got rid of it, I've rented a car once for one day, to visit friends across the state.

Although I could use public transit or Uber, I have yet to have the need or desire. I walk or ride my bicycle if I need to go anywhere.

I have no girlfriend, nor any family near me, but even if I did, I personally wouldn't care what they would think or say, it's not their life, it's not their decisions. I have friends who think I'm nuts, but I also have friends who I think are nuts, having 3 cars for 2 drivers, and unable to park any of them in their garage because it's full of stuff they don't use. Oh well, that's life.

What's the worst case? You go a few months, decide that you actually need a car? So then you go buy another one.

Think even of an emergency, where you have to get a ride to an airport in the middle of the night or something. Uber, cab, pay a neighbor, etc ... Yeah, it'll cost some money if it's a long distance, but it's still going to cost less overall than wasting money each month on something you never use.

And that's just an emergency. Anything that comes up that has even a little bit of time for planning, that's where public transit, rental cars, etc can come in to play.

Honestly, I have wanted to live a no car lifestyle since I graduated college (which was in NYC, no need for a car while I attended), but never did it. So I have zero regrets for doing it, except maybe for not doing it sooner lol

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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by MeloTheMelon »

Other than the already mentioned options, could you maybe rent out your car a couple of times a month?
I'm not sure about the logistics, taxes, insurance, etc. but I guess that would be one option to keep the car and cover the expenses.
A quick Google search came up with Turo which looks like AirBnB for cars, so you could look into that too.

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seanconn256
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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

I think you all have brought up good points, however I do have disagreements. I especially appreciate the mentions of uber and public transport options.

On the family part of it, they are going to learn one way or another I don’t have a car, and hiding that from them will concern them even more. When I come to see them, it’s always assumed I’ll be driving there. If I get there any other way than a car, I’m sure they will know. Or at least, it will come up sooner or later.

And on my gf, in any relationship you have to compromise a good deal. Almost all of our plans together implicitly involve a car in some way or another, and me not having a car will affect her as well. We need to find something that can work for both of us.

So after I’ve been forced to do some thinking to respond to all of your points; I’ve come up with something I think is workable.

Here it is:

- use cycling/walking for 99% of my transport
- share a car (proportionally) with my gf for the rest
- use greyhound buses (or other options as they arise) to get to family

That way for her day to day life, she has a car, and in the off chance I need it I can use it. This would offset the cost heavily. I should only need to pay for the gas/insurance I use, which would be marginal. It's a good deal for her too, money wise. I still would have to tell my family, but that’s a pill I’m going to have to swallow at some point anyways.

I think for now I’ll just keep using the car as little as possible, maybe do some “don’t use the car for x days” challenges, and when it comes time to move in together (when my gf graduates), I’ll share the car with her. Of course this requires her buy in, which I will see about in the coming weeks.

Thoughts?

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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by macg »

I have to ask, why does it matter if your family knows / doesn't know, or approves / doesn't approve?

I think whatever plan that makes you happy and helps you towards your goals is the right choice.

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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by macg »

Oh, and I think your plan sounds good, assuming your gf is good with it. Seems to encompass all the different wants/issues nicely.

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seanconn256
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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by seanconn256 »

Thanks; we'll see how it goes.
It matters what my family knows because I don't want to be dishonest with them, but it really doesn't matter if they approve. It's just an awkward conversation I'm going to have at some point.

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Re: seanconn's journal

Post by macg »

Ahh, okay, understood. Yeah, I guess that the conversations can be awkward, but I personally just go into it feeling that it's not going to be awkward for me. If they don't understand, choose to not understand, or even get to the point of purposefully trying to make it hard/belittle/etc. (which hasn't happened to me), well, that's their problem, not mine. All I can do is express how I'm living my life, it's on them how they choose to react. But that's me :-)

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