Priority 1: Health

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Humanofearth
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Humanofearth »

@IlliniDave
Is the weight regain actually a problem for you?

I notice the same regression with anything in life, once it ceases to be a priority, desire, and the suffering Ill endure for the goal subside. The calorie counting has come as a result of years of experimenting and I couple it with protein fasting at times.

The problem for me is my appetite. I don’t have an off switch when I’m full and if I don’t restrict calories in some way, I can easily overeat chicken breast with vegetables because the lemon and salt or mustard or keto bbq sauce is too delicious and I go for 5ths. My restriction now is to mostly eat some chicken and vegetables then fill up on popcorn and gelatin. I love beef with garlic and carrots but I have to be careful with it. I made a cacao, protein powder, blueberry, strawberry, almond milk ice cream with ~300kcal a pint but again, easy for me to overeat because I eat it with more berries as dessert and have popcorn anyways. The counting for me is a tool for awareness. I often have 4000-5000kcal days and this helps me to be aware of what habits are actually costing me in terms of progress and think of ways to mitigate them. Recently, I had some soup that tasted of blood but was spicy and had anasthetic for my gf’s bday. It was very new to me and I didn’t taste the blood until an hour later when the numbing agent wore off. Then, I wanted to cover the taste and got cake ball, brownie, macarons, cake. The taste was still there and I should’ve just gotten some sparkling water and maybe a bingsu to cover the taste better. This all helps me learn what foods work better but it was a one time event, as most of my feasts are justified as. I can have some beef but better at home than at a buffet. The more I eat out, the more fun and less restrictions there are, further excess calories. So I plan for this better with the calorie counting but I don’t assume I’ll plan every calorie for even a day. I try to change my environment to make the high protein, small deficit natural and it’s not too difficult with the high volume gelatin, vegetables + breast, and popcorn. This will definitely change over time with more experiments.

Frugalchicos
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Frugalchicos »

Interesting journal that aligns with my current goals. Good luck on pursuing happiness and health!!

Any book, podcast, videos or documentaries you could recommend?

Dave
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Dave »

Right on.

I have also found counting calories to be extremely effective in combating a defective appetite switch :lol:! At least when I eat starchy carbs.

What works for me when cutting is to either eat an almost purely whole food diet (be that meat, plants, or some mix, but meat-heavy works best) OR to eat mostly the same thing every day. I have successfully cut while not counting calories, but it required approximate repetition on a daily basis and monitoring weight. The general strategy is some combination of both: eat a mostly whole food diet with a bit of fun meals mixed in on the weekend, eat roughly the same portions all the time, track weight movements, adjust intake marginally up and down based on how weight is moving.

Currently I am traveling and away from a scale. I'm trusting my appetite as I'm eating an almost purely whole food diet, but I'm not counting calories (during weekdays when eating cleaner) and don't have access to a scale. So far so good.

IlliniDave
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by IlliniDave »

Humanofearth wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:11 am
@IlliniDave
Is the weight regain actually a problem for you? ... The problem for me is my appetite.
I don't know if I'd call it a problem because it's pretty predictable. My annual cycle is I spend the first 6-9 months eating per a regimen I know to be fairly effective for me (hoping to take it to the next level this year). Then I spend the rest of the year eating in a completely different way that I know will cause some weight gain (and problems with things like inflammation and insulin-related metabolic things). So I'm not one of those people who get on a regimen with some initial success but then somehow balloon back up while still sticking to the regimen. It's because I go into my autumn feasting mode.

Of course at my age piling on as much as 30 lbs every year between September and December isn't a good thing, mostly because of what happens under the hood.

The interesting thing is that when I get about 2 weeks into my limited carb regimen (cut out sugar/starch/breads) my appetite falls pretty noticeably even when I'm significantly calorie restricted. When I'm in autumn feasting mode I am constantly hungry even though I might be overeating by as much as 1000 cal/day. With me it's all about insulin, and keeping it fairly low curbs my appetite. I pair a moderate selection of protein with all the non-starchy vegetables I can stand to eat (various amounts of fats, primarily "healthy" ones). I do one meal per day (aka OMAD) 5 days a week and 2 meals (in a 6-hr or shorter window) 2 days a week. I eat as much as I want for a meal which are typically 6-8 cups of veggies, 4-8 oz meat/fish/seafood, plus the fats (usually olive oil, avacado oil, sesame oil, etc., plus some grass-fed cheeses). Most days I probably run pretty well under 2000 cal and basically no hunger, even on OMAD days right before meal time.

I don't eat out at restaurants much, and usually the 1-2 times a year I do I just let it be a cheat day. I have been known to get carry-out pizza and eat the toppings and toss the crust.

Like most years I'm tinkering with the nutrition approach and am sort of following a strategy laid out in a book called The Keto Code (Gundry I think is the doctor/author's name). IF is a big part of it, which is nothing new. What I'm going to try to do differently this year is to try to stick reasonably close to it for the entire year, and try to just loosen up a little over the last few months rather than succumb to my traditional autumnal binging.

J_
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by J_ »

If you really want Health #1, why so much-meandering? Start reading “How not to die” and stick to it for at least some years. The knowledge of this book is well testet. And free from unduly food industry bias.

Humanofearth
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Humanofearth »

I’ve read many books and podcasts but none that I swallow the whole philosophy. A book is necessarily a prescription and we’re all individual so I read, apply, and let go of what doesn’t work for me. Typically, I get a few tools.

@Illinidave
The weight cycle is something I struggled with until I kept health as #1 long term. Previously, I’d make it a priority then let it go and experience something similar to you, albeit, not annually. Have you tried fasting around the feast days or eating lots of lean protein and vegetables prior to the feasts? Those help me some but again, it takes a lot of mental energy to do the fasting necessary.

@J_
Meandering how?

I read that book long ago and found some useful tips but I distrust anyone selling me on less meat when my body’s so clear that it feels worse and that I gain weight (which lowers expectancy with more consistency than most other factors) when I eat more fruit, starchy vegetables, and especially grains (which are typically processed these days). I can’t touch even raw fermented whole grains without gaining weight and stomach pains. Stress, motorcycles, sitting in excess, these are the highest dangers to me personally beyond excess calories but I’ve done well in decreasing exposure. I trust my body’s signals over any book and recommend everyone to experiment over years to find what works for them.

Some swear against counting calories or meat or vegetables, good for them. Keep experimenting and improving for long periods of time.

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Slevin
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Slevin »

Can you help me understand what you mean here by priority #1 - health? For example, is getting an 8-10 pack healthy for you? I.e. Is your definition of health including some explicit aesthetic goals that are more important than longevity? What is your focus on primarily? And is a large priority of yours to get to some specific body type (big muscles low bf) and keep it as you age? Would you want that even if it conflicted with health data on longevity and aging?

Humanofearth
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Humanofearth »

Priorities are that which come first, meaning I take action on them prior to other activities and they have a higher weighting for decisions.

First is sleep. Second is a moderate calorie deficit and sufficient protein. Third is progressive resistance training for musculoskeletal and cardiovascular system.

Most important for the whole progress is consistency rather than perfection. Low stress.

To me, health is a state of well being. Lots of energy, certain metrics with hip to waist, shoulder to waist, and waist to height.

My goal leans on very lean rather than large. It’s more efficient for movement, softer on the joints and organ systems, and it’s more aesthetic. The body becomes like art at the highest levels of health. The skin glows. Movement is agile. Gymnastics are easier.

An 8/10 pack, which I’m a few kilos of fat away from, is the easiest visual representation of this state of lightness, of high energy, of resilience to illness for me. It requires consistency in deep rest, caloric deficit, and daily weights/cardio+ sauna is actually not in any way required for it but it feels good and facilitates the process of health.

IlliniDave
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by IlliniDave »

Humanofearth wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:17 am
@Illinidave
The weight cycle is something I struggled with until I kept health as #1 long term. Previously, I’d make it a priority then let it go and experience something similar to you, albeit, not annually. Have you tried fasting around the feast days or eating lots of lean protein and vegetables prior to the feasts? Those help me some but again, it takes a lot of mental energy to do the fasting necessary.
No I haven't really tried any of those or any other tactics because I wasn't motivated. Once football season starts I enjoy the foods I like, sweets and all, with the somewhat specious rationale that fattening up for the winter is natural, and soon after the start of calender winter I roll over to a fasting-based (IF) regimen since winter and spring are the "lean months". This coming autumn/winter will be the first time I tend to be deliberate about limiting what I let myself gain over the autumn cold months. What I do will depend on how things go with my new regimen. If it goes well I'll probably adapt it.

Humanofearth
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Humanofearth »

@IlliniDave
In all honesty, it is natural for many species in cold climates. Most of my home bases and travel destinations are in the tropics so I don’t typically experience anything below 15 (C).
——-
Today was first day of dieting again. Had a 3 week break averaging 2700-3000 kcal a day, expected burn rate is 2200-2300.
Goal: calories 1500-2000 until May 22nd, then to 2100-2200 daily average.
Any days with calories at or below 2000 with protein >160g and trailing weekly fat >47g/day is success.
1686kcal today with a workout, protein 212 grams, fat 40 grams but 666g in past week so about double my goal on a weekly basis.
Changed workout back to push, pull, cardio + sauna, leg, cardio + sauna. I get exhausted doing legs every workout. I miss the pump and connection of hitting a single group. The reality is that consistency is more important than the exact split. And sleep, stress, diet are all more important for composition than the training. So within health:
#1) Sleep <9pm, no electronics past 8pm, dry fast as experiment after 6pm.
#2) Calm, all of life is a rock, nothing is intending to stress me, it is in the nature of others to act for themselves so don’t anger for a rock doing what it can’t help.
#3) Kcal ~1.7k/day, protein >160g daily, fat >47g daily (trailing weekly). Water is sufficient, far more than most expect so I don’t need to focus on water.
#4) Progressive resistance training with weights, cardio, and sauna. Cardio is relatively new so I am starting very light.

Hope this is the final stretch of health as top priority for me.

OutOfTheBlue
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

Hydration

If you can share, how much water input do you average, aside from any contained in food?

Do you limit or otherwise monitor salt consumption or use it (as an electrolyte) to limit dehydration from exercise?

What's the thinking behind the dry fast experiment?

Humanofearth
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Humanofearth »

@OutoftheBlue
I probably drink 5-8L of water daily. I add a pinch of Himalayan salt to 6L containers. I also eat lots of gelatin, it’s mostly water with some protein added in.

I add ~2.5 grams of salt to a L of water each morning and heavily salt my foods. I tried lowering and increasing salt and tested my electrolyte levels and egfr after this. Increasing salt actually made my egfr test much better and sodium was exactly the same for both tests.

Dry fasting will hopefully help me stop waking up at 12-3am to go to the bathroom. This experiment has not yet succeeded at its intended goal of a solid sleep with no wake periods.

OutOfTheBlue
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by OutOfTheBlue »

@Humanofearth, thanks for sharing! That does sound like a lot of water from my frame of reference, but I can't really judge. It was especially interesting to read about your salt consumption. Since you put such an accent on having good sleep, I see why you try observing a dry fasting period. Keep up the good work!

Humanofearth
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Humanofearth »

Diet is very good on calories, protein, and fiber since start date. Been in a deficit every day. Fat has been too low though so thinking of some ways to increase that. I have several options:
1) Go out on a date once a week to get some crispy pork, shabu, or another variation of fatty meat. This runs the risk of overeating while having the benefit of a fun date.
2) Eat a few egg yolks a day. This is the most financially efficient decision but also the most boring.
3) Buy a kilo or 2 of some Wagyu when I buy groceries and have a feast day to top up fat in my diet.
Im leaning towards a combination of 1 & 2. 2 is likely healthiest as there’s nothing healthier in the world than Wagyu but I’ll definitely eat in excess that day and I’ll also bore to eat alone. Going on dates is almost essential to not go crazy on diets and with working from home. It’s the activity I miss most, eating out. But it’s difficult to balance the calories so I’ve mostly given up on it. Once I feast, I feast. So learning to hamper that with some gelatin, chicken, vegetables, and popcorn before eating out will help me to not overeat as much as long as it’s not a buffet.

Salathor
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Salathor »

Humanofearth wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:19 am
Are you set on animal fats? Why not some delicious and healthy olive oil or nuts?

Dave
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Dave »

Have you considered purchasing beef fat trimmings from a grocery store/butcher? They often throw these away and you can get them for free or (in my experience) an extremely low price (~$1/lb).

The times I've bought trimmings I cut and fry them up, then eat them over the course of a few days. They are delicious with leaner meals, and a really low-cost way to add fat to the diet.

Humanofearth
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Humanofearth »

@Salathor
Oils and nuts are too easy for me to overeat, I do not keep them in the house.
The main goal with nuts and seeds is the ALA/Omega 3s but they're much less bioavailable than the EPA/DHA in fish/algae oils. I got really, really fat when I was vegan. I can't go back, I tried it 3 times. Animal protein is the bulk of my calories, followed by fibrous vegetables and animal fats.

I've been cutting down on my popcorn actually, it was skewing my macros too much towards carbs. Replacing it with more gelatin and vegetables.

So now, the experiment is vegetables + chicken + eggs & gelatin for dessert. Popcorn if I'm about to workout or really craving some crunchy snack.

@Dave
Good idea, I looked around and didn't see many butchers in my part of town. I've started eating whole eggs the past couple days. Realizing how high calorie 1 egg is and considering how much I can eat, I think the chance of overeating is very high if I go out to eat fatty meat in any significant quantity.

----------------
First week successful. Avg calories ~1769

For now, going out is alleviated by having company over, going to various health places, walking at park. Could just limit how much I eat when I go to a food place but it's much harder than not going.

Think to go out and eat light every 2 weeks or so.

Expecting another 3 weeks of dieting before I go back to where I was before I took a diet break.

Humanofearth
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:32 am

Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Humanofearth »

Weight stable now, slowly lowering calories. Maintenance around 2300-2500 kcal depending on activity and calorie composition.

Life is pretty good.

Training daily on 4 day cycle of push-pull-legs-cardio/sauna and the weight days I eat about maintenance with less calories on sauna day because weights make me hungry.

kawaivf1
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by kawaivf1 »

Humanofearth wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:10 pm
@Salathor
Oils and nuts are too easy for me to overeat, I do not keep them in the house.


I've been cutting down on my popcorn actually, it was skewing my macros too much towards carbs. Replacing it with more gelatin and vegetables.
I am trying a similar diet (fat/protein/non-starchy veggies) I find almonds I don't over eat if they are raw.. If I want to make them fattier I toss them in some EVOO and salt to really increase the healthy fats. I made the mistake of having cashews and peanuts around.. those are too addicting.

As for your popcorn substitute.. I recommend you try pork rinds for something crunchy. Get the plain ones. They aren't nearly as tasty, but much better for you.

Good luck!

Humanofearth
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Re: Priority 1: Health

Post by Humanofearth »

My weight is exactly the same. I've been working out a bit more. Still doing PPL but I added some arm and neck work on Leg day as those feel lagging.

Life is still a dream beyond what I pictured for myself. That's a joy and a bit of a curse as I don't have a clearly motivating image of what to go for next. More B, more love, more health, more is really what I want? Starting a family, improving my trading, improving my health are the main motivations I feel next but they all have a price. Trading is the most fun work I've ever done. Raising a family would be deeply enriching. My health requires sleep and calorie control. I enjoy sleeping less and later, more fun in evening when it's less hot. I enjoy eating out...

With my health, I've had a lot of fun lately, I love going out to eat and go out most days, which makes calorie control difficult as I won't be bringing a scale everywhere. I notice eating at home, maintain around 2300-2400 and I weight everything, eating out, eyeballing and thinking actual calories consumed is definitely under what I'm counting it's around 2100.

Also, weights are something that feel very good psychologically but physically, increasing weight leads to pain on some exercises-leg curls, bicep curls mainly. Some variations hurt less and I can overload the hamstrings with hinges as well but it's a frustrating limitation I've been working around for a while now.

Withdrawal rate 2-3% again at my increased spending level. I finally got the hang of being patient and consistent in my trades. Had winning trades all year and somehow still managed to mess up the first 2 months with behavioral mistakes-largely changing sizing midway, on the spot decisions rather than preplanned decisions based on analysis and a plan, or incorrect sizing. Been a year of learning.

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