Buying a Tailored Suit

[Jin+Guice]

The least ERE topic ever I know, but...

This is the only community where I feel like my goals are actually understood and...

I told myself I'd get a tailored suit (or perhaps a few) when I hit 6 figure NW and reached my goal weight and got roughly close to my ideal body composition and...

Sometimes I like to feel like a fucking baller and...

It's about that time.

How should I go about choosing a tailor?

Is it worth it to try to develop a relationship with a local tailor (I live in NOLA, but am interested in more classic New York style looks)?

Should I try to get a suit made somewhere in the U.S. that I travel to with a lower cost of living?

Should I have a suit made overseas next time I visit a LCOL country?

Should I just send measurements/ money to a trustworthy friend of mine who lives in Senegal?

What research should I do beforehand about suits? I've done some research on fit but I know next to nothing about suit styles/ cuts/ materials. I have an idea of the patterns I'd like (i.e., solid black, blue pinstripe, etc...), but I don't know much else about suits.

Sorry Jacob, thanks y'all!

How long should I expect a tailored suit that can be retailored to last?

[Alphaville]

suits are season and weather dependent in terms of materials, construction, etc.

i would not want a new york suit in the subtropics. gimme some seersucker, no joke. if wool, tropical wool with half lining or unlined.

you could bring your concerns to a good local tailor. worth it imo. otherwise you're gonna be sweating like a pig.

duration is basically forever although fashions change.

[unemployable]

Back when I had a job I would go to Bangkok once a year to buy business clothes. I would drop about as much as the plane ticket there cost me. Since then I've thrift-stored maybe 75% of what I bought. I had no problem spending the money because it was for my actual appearance.

A good suit ran around $250 and a good dress shirt $20-30 (2003-10 prices). This was for quality and workmanship that would cost 3-5x that in a developed country -- IF you can find the colors and styles. They advertise deals like "2 suits and 2 shirts for $200" in the shop windows but that would be for maybe $500 worth of clothes in the US, so what's the point?

I never wore out a suit (had to wear maybe 2-3x a month) or shirt (wore one every day to work). It is more likely you will damage it or it will no longer fit due to weight/body changes.

There is a learning curve to knowing what you want regarding style, fabric and type of fit. Learn about styles first (collars, cuffs, buttons, lapels) and know what you want before going in! Bringing photographs is fine. Once you have that, the tailor doesn't matter so much. The Internet has weird corners that debate how good various Bangkok tailors are but the truth is it's mostly up to you. I understand most of the tailors send out to a handful of shops to actually cut the clothes and you should be getting multiple fittings anyway. First you get measured, then you try the pattern on, then you try the suit on, then they tailor the suit, then perhaps they do it again if it doesn't quite fit. So four fittings at least. I wouldn't order clothes remotely unless I've already done all the fittings (they save your measurements) and my weight hasn't changed.

LMK what else you need to know!

[Western Red Cedar]

I bought a few tailored suits while I was living and traveling in Asia. I bought the first on a trip to Beijing at the Silk Street Market in 2007, then bought two more in Hanoi in 2008. I think I paid $100 dollars for each of them. That was about half the price to have one made in S. Korea where I was living at the time. The experience in Hanoi was a little better as I had more time and was able to do multiple fittings, as @unemployable mentions above. I probably wouldn't risk it sending measurements overseas.

I don't have much to offer in terms of your questions about getting a suit in the US, but I don't think I could stomach the costs after seeing the quality and style I found in Asia.

My main recommendation is that you get something that has a classic look in a dark color (black or grey) if you are only getting one. If you get one in the US, it probably doesn't make sense to get more than one unless you need it for work.

I still fit into all three suits, but I've gotten a lot more use out of the classic, black cashmere suit I got in China. Styles change, but you can find something that you could probably wear with pride for multiple decades if you get a classic look. My other two are three piece suits with a lighter material, but one of them is tan. It looks great, but it's fairly obvious if I'm wearing it again at a wedding and I have to be a lot more conscious of spills and stains.

I've gotten years of use out of the suits and have had multiple employers comment on them in interviews. They are also a great motivation not to gain too much weight. I think you mentioned losing weight recently. You might want to wait for 3-6 months while you research styles to make sure your weight is stable.

[jacob]

Maybe see viewtopic.php?p=187415#p187415 ?

[Jin+Guice]

After re-reading the post @jacob linked to from @Kipling, I'll expand the topic:

I want to have a baller suit that fits impeccably. The signaling stuff that @Kipling discusses is sincerely very interesting to me, but I am a faker who will never climb a corporate ladder and lives in a trailer on an urban garden. I want to look cool and classy when I take chicks out to dinner, meet old people and maybe when I play gigs. I don't have the background to pass for a fancy person to other high status suit wearing types. A tailored suit still seems like the way to go, but I'll entertain other options. I'm still also interested in hearing about what anyone has to say about tailors and what aspects of a suit are important to know about before buying.

@unemployable: What specifics would you research before buying a nice suit?

I have suits, but I don't know anything about them. Pretty much everything I know about clothes (mostly the basics of fit) is in the beginning of the "Mens Fashion" thread.

Thanks again everyone.

[unemployable]

@unemployable: What specifics would you research before buying a nice suit?

Big thing is the fit around the neck and shoulders. When you shrug your shoulders or raise your arms the jacket collar should remain snug with your shirt collar.

Other things that signal "class" are French collars instead of buttoned collars, cufflinks instead of buttoned cuffs and double-breasted suit buttons, although I stuck with single-breasted myself. You can also ask for the corners to be cut off the cuffs diagonally so you don't have as much fabric sticking out. I need a picture... the top shirt in this pic compared to the ones underneath. This subtly signals "I get my clothes custom cut" to those in the know.

Cufflinks are fun and you can find them cheap over there. You can get ones that show off your hobbies or where you went to college or whatever. Although you have to remember to pack them on business trips. I attended at least one client presentation wearing alligator clips.

Colored shirts with white collars aren't as big as they used to be but I still liked them. I had one with dark blue stripes, people called it my Gordon Gekko shirt. Also it's not the 80s but consider a slight amount of shoulder padding in the suit.

I always got my pants cuffed and pleated but these aren't mandatory. How do I say this... Asian tailors may not be so familiar with the shape of Caucasian rear ends, or at least mine wasn't, and I had to make sure I had enough room back there. My excuse is that I squat, OK? Also Thai people don't carry their wallets in their back pockets. This is because all the banknotes have an engraving of the king on them, so it's considered sitting on the king. You have to remember to ask for back pockets, and I ended up with a couple suits without them.

[take2]

+ 1

I’ve done the same in Shanghai (2015) and Hoi An (2019). Quality materials and an excellent tailor should run you $300-350 per suit, $20-25 per shirt, $150 for a wool overcoat. You can generally get a discount for buying more.

I’m not sure the actual SE Asia city will matter all that much, but Vietnam/Thailand will be cheaper than mainland China, which will be cheaper than HK.

As unemployable mentioned the key is knowing what you want ahead of time. This generally is:

Material
Pattern/colour
Fit of suit (how tight you want it)
Cut of pants (tapered, etc)
Length of pants (how you want it to fall on your shoes)
Jacket flaps (none/single/double)
Lapels (thickness, style)
Shoulders (style)
Buttons (number, type, material, colour, whether the sleeve buttons work or are for show)
Customisation of pockets
Customisation of lining

But there are more things. Some are somewhat out of style (pleats, pant cuffs) but you can get whatever you want.

For shirts you should know

Material
Pattern/colour
Collar (type)
Buttons (type)
Sleeve (button or french cuff)

Suggest you do a deep dive on the main parameters to see the different possibilities. By far the most important is the material you choose, and the quality of how it’s made. If you’re open to traveling to SE Asia to get it made, once there I wouldn’t advise skimping on material or going to the cheapest tailor possible. The better ones will invite you to see their operation; the cheaper ones will outsource and potentially use crappier materials. The difference might only be $100.

I was a bit overwhelmed both times and ended up getting great stuff I still wear today, but definitely would have made some minor changes. Interior pockets for instance should be deep enough to comfortably carry your phone (one of mine is way too deep, the other way too shallow). I also went a little too tight on the most recent suits as I took the tailor’s advice; they look good but I would have preferred slightly more room in the pants and shoulders. This was partially due to doing only 2 fitting vs the 4 that unemployable wisely recommends above.

Good luck!

[take2]

I always got my pants cuffed and pleated but these aren't mandatory.

Ha, perhaps I spoke too soon. I should say, they are out of style for me

[unemployable]

Ha, perhaps I spoke too soon. I should say, they are out of style for me

Well, it was 10-15 years ago.

My tailor suggested pants should touch the top of the soles at the heel when standing, and my experience is that is the correct length.

I wasn't aware there were Bangkok tailors that cut the clothes "onsite", but maybe that's a higher Wheaton level of suit-buying.

It's fun once you get into it. I always wanted to get a mobster suit. You know, black with wide, thick pinstripes, big lapels. Would only be able to wear it to occasions where I wasn't trying to impress people, though.

[aptruncata]

I want to have a baller suit that fits impeccably.

Would you be able to describe what that looks like or post a pic of your idea of perfection?
Fit and style of a suit range quite widely depending on the age of the person who's wearing it, what era a style they are trying to replicate as well as the occasion in which it will be worn. (e.g. Connor Mcgregor)

[Jin+Guice]

Would you be able to describe what that looks like or post a pic of your idea of perfection?

Uh, an obvious place to start that I had overlooked. Will look at the internet and get back to you. Thanks!

Thanks to everyone else who responded too!

[ThriftyRob]

Most of the key points have been made already here and in Kipling's post linked.

I would immerse yourself in the men's style blogs – a good one is Simon Crompton's 'Permanent Style' – he has written lots of reviews of different bespoke tailors an has a series in which he has analysed the stylistic features of the different tailors. He is a fan of Savile Row and bespoke, so the writing style can be somewhat snobbish. I'd say it's worth reading the comments to get some real world validation and hints and tips from men who aspire to look good while saving money. He's particularly good at pointing out the obvious faux pas (choosing the fabric and cut) which should be avoided and how to choose a 'classic' look that will serve you for decades.

There is also some good input on buying suits in Asia and what to look out for so that you aren't ripped off on the forum.

I got a recommendation for a tailor from a forum member whom I contacted and it turned out very well for me (I ordered two pairs of trousers/pants).

I have also done well searching ebay for specific tailors' names, e.g. `Anderson Sheppard bespoke suit' and have bought a couple of Savile Row suits that fit (after alterations by my tailor). A very low-cost route into bespoke wear.

[Hristo Botev]

Is it worth it to try to develop a relationship with a local tailor (I live in NOLA, but am interested in more classic New York style looks)?

...

How long should I expect a tailored suit that can be retailored to last?

My thoughts, fwiw (from a guy who (still) wears a suit almost every weekday, and on Sunday for Mass ):

First, unless your body is structured in a way that is a bit abnormal, I personally don't see the benefit of going the full bespoke route, as opposed to buying off the rack from a place that has really good tailors to fit the off-the-rack suit to your body. I think it makes much more sense to go off-the-rack with a good, reputable designer you like; I had some friends who had suits made for them bespoke when we were in the Peace Corps in the Balkans and although they "fit," the end result wasn't something you'd wear anywhere you wanted to be taken seriously.

Second, the benefit of dropping some serious coin on 1 or 2 suits, bought when you are at your ~ideal body weight, is that the suit(s) will force you to not let yourself get too far out of shape before making the necessary dietary/exercise adjustments; at least, that's worked for me for the past 10 years. Yes, a tailor can take out the waist a bit and make some other adjustments if you put on weight; but it's not going to look quite right if the adjustments are at all significant.

Third, given that you live in the south, but want something that's more of a "New York style," I'd highly recommend Sid Mashburn (https://www.sidmashburn.com/shop/suits.html). He's a southerner (from Mississippi, I believe), currently HQd in Atlanta, who earned his stripes at Brooks Brothers, IIRC (and/or JCrew, I think?). I recommend him because, (1) he's my guy--all of my tailored clothes come from his shop, and (2) I think he's figured out the perfect style for blending Italian with New York in a way that works in the South, with wool that's comfortable to wear even in August in the Southeast. He does the bespoke/made-to-measure thing, but I don't think it's really necessary; again, assuming your body type isn't abnormal.

Fourth, as for longevity, I've got 2 suits from Sid, my first was a charcoal grey one bought about 9 years ago and my second is an Oxford grey bought about 7 years ago. I've also got 3 pairs of Sid's slacks (again, shades of grey, with one being a heavier wool I wear in the winter) and one of his navy blazers. And that's all I wear, every weekday of every week. I wore out the seats of my charcoal suit pants and my charcoal slacks, a couple years ago I believe (side effect of sitting all day at work), and Sid's tailor patched them up and reinforced them for me (free of charge, IIRC); good as new (I'm wearing the charcoal slacks right now). I don't plan on ever needing to replace the suits, the blazer, or probably the slacks--the benefit of a full canvas construction on a jacket is, among other things, it both looks and fits better the longer you have it. That said, the wool will certainly get threadbare eventually, but I plan to be long since retired by that point, such that when I put on the suit for weddings and first communions and baptisms and the like, the suit will just have "character" appropriate for social gatherings, but perhaps not for business/professional settings.

I also get most of my dress shirts and ties from Sid as well, and the shirts of course do wear out--though I tend to patch up the elbows and along the seams as they rip myself, so I've probably only ever had to throw out 1 or 2 of his shirts. That said, you can certainly save some money on the shirts/ties; it's really the jacket (suit or blazer) where you don't want to skimp. It's shockingly easy to spot a cheaply constructed suit jacket.

ETA: I used to like reading the "Hey Sid!" advice column (https://www.sidmashburn.com/hey-sid), which is obviously a promotional thing aimed at encouraging you to buy more of his stuff; but I really liked it nevertheless--again, it's generally written from the perspective of how to dress nicely in tailored clothes in the US Southeast.

ETAx2: I mean, how very ERE of Sid:

So investing in fewer, better things (in all parts of your life) is one of the smartest decisions you can make. And I can say with confidence it's one you won't regret. This applies not just to you, but every guy! My advice always has been to think about how often you are going to wear something, and factor that into the price. Nothing earth-shattering there, but it's better to have a few great things and wear 'em often than have a closet full of stuff and only wear 30% of it.

OK, I'll stop; haven't really thought about this stuff in a year or two--it's just one of the few things in my life I've actually figured out. I can check that box and move on.

ETAx3: Sorry, one more thing. Just saw this on the Ask Sid advice column, and it made me laugh given the discussion about cuffed pants. Seems a flowchart is fitting for the ERE forum:

[Jin+Guice]

I just finished doing a "deep-dive" on suit basics.

The next step for me will be finding a tailor and deciding if I want to go full bespoke, made-to-measure or get something off the rack altered. I think this will def be an IRL experience, aka I don't want to get a made-to-measure suit by sending my measurements off to the internet. Depending on the tailor I chose, I may start by asking them to alter some exsiting dress shirts I have.

There are two bespoke suit makers in New Orleans. The most reputable one is very expensive (average bespoke is around $5k according to their website, though I think cheaper bespoke options are available). I'm not quite sure how to make the decision between bespoke or made-to-measure/ custom.

I'm not ruling out SEA, but I think I want to get my first suit in the next year, so I'm probably not going to get the first one there.

I'm also going to check out the tailor that @Hristo recommended in Atlanta, as flying to Atlanta would be an option.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to drop this kind of cash on a place until I've purchased land for and moved and permitted my tiny house.

Thanks again for all the help y'all, I'll let you know how the process goes. As alway please send advice/ experience if you have any!






Here are the notes I made cruising the internet and reading a few books:



Dress Shirts:



Elements:

Collars: There are three main types of collars, the spread, the point and the button down.

The three main variables in those types are the height (the collar stand back and front), the length (how long the front edge of the collar is) and the point spread (the distance between the two front collar points).

Longer necks and narrower faces should have higher collars, shorter necks and squatter faces should have shorter collars.

Narrow faces use a wide spread, while squatter faces use a narrow spread.

The two most popular collars are the spread and the point.

Pockets: The choices are two pockets, one pocket or no pockets.

No pockets is considered the most formal. The visually symmetry created by a tie is also disrupted with a pocket.

A rounded pocket is considered more formal than a pointed pocket.


Placket: The placket is the outlined portion of the shirt where the buttons are attached.

The standard placket (American placket) has the placket on the outside, so it’s visible when the shirt is worn.

No placket (french placket) has the seam on the inside so it is invisible when the shirt is worn.

A concealed placket refers to a placket where the buttons are hidden. This is generally only used for tuxedo shirts and shirts with a bow-tie.

The french placket is considered more conservative/ formal than the American placket.

Cuffs: The two major styles of cuffs are french cuffs (which require a cuff link) and barrel cuffs (which have a button and do not require a cuff link).

French cuffs are considered more formal.

If you choose a barrel cuff, the next choice is 1 vs 2 buttons. 1 button is shorter and less formal, 2 buttons are more formal and longer. Some designers offer a long 1 button option as well.

The angled cuff is the most common barrel cuff and is appropriate for most pointed, spread and button down collars.

Rounded cuffs are considered more elegant. They are most appropriate for club collars, but can also go with most point or spread collars.

The square or straight cuff is the most casual cuff. Square cuffs are usually paired with button down collars.

Soft vs. Fused: Fused is considered more formal than soft. These terms apply to collars, plackets and cuffs. It is generally a good idea to choose 1-style for the shirt, fused or soft, and not change between collars, plackets and cuffs.

Buttons: Mother of pearl buttons are considered superior to plastic buttons.

Bottom Hem: The two most common bottom hems are straight hems (which often feature vents) and rounded hems (which often feature gussets on the side hem).

Rounded hems are considered more formal. The straight hem is more popular for untucked shirts.

Material: Shirts should be 100% natural fibers like cotton, linen, wool, silk or cashmere.

Assessing Quality:

Fabric: Shirts should be made of 100% natural fibers such as cotton, linen, wool or a blend of these. Cotton is the most popular choice with sea island cotton or Egyptian cotton being considered the best.

Ideally fabric should be 2-ply (see explanation):


Once the raw material has been spun into yarn, it could be used right away to weave shirt cloth. In this case, the cloth would be a “single-ply.” But, in order to prevent pilling of the fabric and to increase its quality, two yarns are spun into a single one. Subsequently, several of these yarns are woven into two directions, one the from top to the bottom, and the other one from the left to the right. This is also known as the warp and the weft. If the weft yarns are at a 90° angle to the warp, it is on the “grain“. If there is roughly one weft yarn per warp yarn, it is a balanced weave. All other ratios are unbalanced. Probably the most well known unbalanced fabric is the broadcloth, which has 144 warp yarns by 76 weft yarns (roughly a ratio of 2:1). If you were to use a double spun yarn for the warp as well for the weft, you would have a “two ply” 2×2 fabric because two double spun yarns have been used in either direction. However, sometimes the term “two ply” is used for fabrics that have only one yarn (either the warp or the weft) that has been spun twice whereas the other yarn was not. This is just a 2×1 and thus does not deserve the name “two-ply”.

The fabric “super” number refers to the fineness of the yarn. However, these numbers are not monitored and higher super numbers may use questionable manufacturing processes, even if they are technically accurate. Thus a super between 60 and 100 is often prefered. A higher “super” number indicates a softer fabric.



Pattern Matching: Check to see that the pattern matches at any/ all of the seams.

Stitching: Higher stitch density (more and tighter stitches) generally indicates higher quality. Fabric should be even and seams should not come apart. There should be no loose threads at the seams.

Side seams: Higher quality shirts use single needle stitching.

Collar: Non-fused (sewn instead of glued) collars are more difficult to make and can denote quality, though there are high-quality fused collars. The points of the collar should be evenly spaced from the center.

Yoke: The presence of a yoke and/ or extra tailoring features such as gussets or darts, often denotes quality, as they are used to customize the shirt and requires an extra step in shirt construction.

Buttons: Mother of pearl buttons are higher quality than plastic. Buttons should be attached with a lot of thread, but no loose threads. Button holes should be reinforced with a lot of thread and no loose threads.

Assessing Fit:

Collar: You should be able to place 1 to 2, but no more fingers inside the collar. The outer edge of the collar should be covered by the jacket. The shirt collar should be above the jacket all around (particularly at the back of the neck).

Shoulder: The shoulder seam should be almost at the edge of your shoulder.

Torso: There should be at most 3-4” per side (this is for a relatively loose fit) when you pinch the shirt. How much extra fabric is somewhat a matter of preference, with less fabric for a tighter fit.

Sleeve length: Sleeves should come to your wrist bone. The sleeve should extend beyond the jacket by a half an inch.

Cuff Width: You should not be able to get out of your cuffs when the shirt is buttoned.

Sleeve Width: For a tight fit, the sleeve should be as tight as possible without causing discomfort or constricting a full range of motion.

Shirt Length: Your shirt should be long enough to tuck without extra fabric. This means the shirt should be 2-3 inches below your belt line, untucked. Another way to assess this is, the shirt should be as short as possible without showing your undergarments when you lift your arms.

Possible Alterations:

Shorten the sleeves
Replace the collar and the cuffs
Shorten the torso length
Slim the torso fit
Replace the buttons



Style Notes:

Vertical stripes make you look taller.
Horizontal stripes make you look broader (broad shoulders).
Checkerboard make you look taller and broader.
Pinstripes and darker colors have a slimming effect.






Suit Jacket:

Shoulder:

English: The English shoulder is the most structured of all shoulders. It has large padding, significant canvasing, interlined horsetail, and reinforced with chest felt and tapes.

Italian: The most unstructured shoulder type, not meant to alter a mans shoulder line. Only a smaller layer of canvas is used.

The Continental Shoulder: Halfway between the English and Italian shoulder, it is lightly padded.

Neapolitan Shoulder: The same as the Italian shoulder with a slight puckering. This is a mark of quality as it is somewhat difficult to do.

Natural Shoulder: This shoulder has a downward slope following the natural line of the shoulder; however, it also features a thick shoulder pad.

Pagoda Shoulder: The shoulder slopes downward until the sleeve and then rises slightly at the seams.

Lapels:

Notched: This is the standard and most conservative choice for a lapel. It is good for any face or body type, but particularly for oval, oblong and square face types.

Shawl: The shawl lapel has no “gorge,” which is the space between the collar and the lapel. For a shawl lapel, the collar and the lapel are all one piece.

Peak: A peak lapel has less gorge than a notch lapel (if any) and the lapel juts outward and upward toward the collar.

Pockets:

Patch Pocket: The most “primitive” pocket. A patch of fabric is sewn onto the outside of the suit. It is also considered the most unsightly and casual pocket.

Flap Pocket: The pocket is inside the coat with a flap on the outside.

Jetted Pocket: Jetted pockets are the most formal pockets. They are inside the coat with no flaps. They are also referred to as “besom” or “welted” pockets.

Ticket Pocket: This is an extra pocket in the lower third of the garment, which is usually flapped.

Chest Pocket: Also called the breast pocket. This pocket is usually welted and sometimes curved. It often contains a pocket square.

Straight pockets are considered more formal, while slanted pockets are considered more modern and casual.

Buttons:

2 vs 3 Buttons: On a 3 button suit sometimes button the top button, always button the middle button and never button the bottom button. On a two button suit always button the top button and never the bottom. Three buttoned suits are good for taller thin men and those with athletic builds. The two button suit is more popular as it creates a deeper v shape, has more lapel, shows off the shirt and tie more and has a slimming and lengthening effect. The 3 button is considered less formal, but is also much less popular (except for a comeback in the 90s).


Button Color: Darker buttons are more formal, lighter or metal buttons more casual. Brown buttons go well with brown shoes.

Breasts:

Double Breasted vs. Single Breasted: Single breasted suits are considered more sleek, modern and stylish. Double breasted are more elegant, classic and vintage. Single breasted suits are more popular, though double breasted suits enhance the appearance of a “v-taper.”

Suit Vents:

Single Vents: This is a single slit down the back of the center of the jacket. It is considered more casual and is more popular in America.

Double Vent: Two vents on either side. This is considered more formal and is more popular in England.

No Vent: No vent is considered the most formal and is usually only found on tuxedo jackets.

Suit Lining: A suit lining adds weight to the jacket, makes it warmer, it helps the jacket drape better and avoid bunching, it hides the inner stitching for a cleaner look and makes the jacket easier to put on.

There are several different options for lining

Tone-on-tone: The lining more or less matches the color of the jacket. This is the most conservative option.

Contrast/ Complimentary Color: Still a conservative option but with a bit more visual interest than tone-on-tone.

Non-statement Pattern: Herringbone, check or polka dot pattern.

Statement Pattern: A pattern that is not one of the above.

Full Custom: Anything not mentioned above, including pictures.


Suit linings are generally made of silk.


Pants:

Pleats: Pleats are considered more formal and fancier than non-pleats. Tall and thin men should not wear pleats. Heavy set men should wear pleats. Short men may or may not want to wear pleats. Single pleats blend more, but double pleats look more relaxed and may be better for the heavier set.

Cuffs: A pant should be cuffed with a single pleat and/ or a single breasted suit. A pant cuff is optional with a double breast suit or double pleat.

Pockets: Slanted pockets are the most common, but straight or “frog-mouth” pockets are also an option. Frog-mouth pockets are the most visible, but do not look good with pleats.

Vests:

Single vs double breasted: Single breasted is considered less formal and can be worn with jeans. Double breasted is more formal and can be worn even to a black tie event. A double breasted vest can work with a single breasted suit, but it looks more classic or old-fashioned.

The lowest button should not be buttoned.

Buttons:

Always choose a vest with at least one more button than the jacket that accompanies it.

The most common button choice is 5 buttons, but very tall men may want to have 6 buttons and very short men may want to opt for 4.

Design:

The three choices a v-shaped, lapelled and u-shaped. Lapelled is reserved for double breasted vests. U-shaped is paired with a tuxedo for black tie events.

Ties:

Quality ties are generally made of silk, though the innerlining is rarely made of silk (a tie with tie with the innerlining made of silk is called a “7-fold tie.”)

The tip of your tie should end at the middle of your waistband when standing at a normal posture.

The tie knot should roughly be the width of your lapel.

The tie width should match your build, so skinny ties for skinny guys and wide ties for larger gents.





Fit:

Jacket:

Shoulders: The shoulder seam should sit just before the edge of your shoulder and hug the shape of your shoulder with no overhang. If there are shoulder pads, they should sit directly on top of your shoulders. If they overhang, the suit will look too big and if they do not cover your entire shoulder, the suit will feel too small.

Chest: Place your hand beneath your suit jacket a few inches above the button, when the suit is buttoned. If you struggle to get your hand in, the suit is too tight, if your hand fits snuggly in easily, the suit is a good fit, if there is excess room the suit is too loose. There should be just enough room to slide your hand under the jacket.

Length: The bottom of your jacket should just cover the tops of your trouser pockets. The alternative check is that the jacket stops at your knuckles when you allow your arms to hang freely.

Sleeve Length: Your sleeve should finish where your thumb bone meets your wrist, which would leave half an inch of an ideally fitted shirt visible.

Waist: The waist should indent slightly, creating a v-taper rather than boxy look.

Pants:

Waist: The waist should be tight enough that wearing a belt is not a necessity, but not so tight that it cuts off circulation or creates a “muffin top” silhouette.

Rise: The rise is the portion of the pants from the top of the garment to the bottom of the crotch. It is important to have the proper amount of fabric so that, when the waist of the pants sits where you want it, you are not getting a wedgie or having a bunch of fabric hanging around the crotch.

Crotch: The crotch of your pants is where several seams meet. It should be as tight as possible without being uncomfortable (current trends often make the crotch too tight).

Seat: The seat of your pants is where your butt sits. It should be neither skin tight nor too loose and baggy. It should taper towards the top as it approaches your hips and towards the bottom as it approaches your thighs. To test this, exceed your stride a little bit. If you can feel the pants pull they are too tight. Next, put your hands in your pockets and pull outward. Your hands should fit comfortably in your pockets, if not the seat is too tight. If you can pull more than an inch the seat is too loose.

Leg Width: This is somewhat up to personal style. The classic look is to be able to pinch one to two inches of fabric on either side of the leg. The leg should also taper slightly as it moves from top to bottom.

Break: The break is where the pant hem sits in relation to the shoe. No break means the pant ends just above the shoe, with a portion of the sock visible. This requires a greater leg tapering. It is considered trendy. A partial break is where the hem of your pants just meets the dress shoes. This creates a slight fold in the pants at this point. A full break is where the pants cover the top part of your shoe and possibly some of the laces. It is considered the least fashionable, but also the most conservative break.

Vest:

Fit: The vest should be as snug as possible without the buttons showing signs of pulling.

Length: The front should end and inch below the waistband and the back should end at the waistband.






Possible Alterations:

Suit Jacket:

Easy:

Lower or raise the collar.
Take in/ let out the side seams.
Take in/ let out the center seam.
Move buttons at waist.
Shorten/ lengthen sleeves.
Close Vents.

Difficult:

Shorten sleeve from shoulder.
Shorten Collar.
Pad Shoulders.
Reduce Chest.

Very Difficult/ Impossible:

Reduce shoulder points.
Rotate Sleeves.
Alter Lapels.
Change/ Remove Pockets.
Shorten Jacket.


Pants:

Easy:

Shorten/ Lengthen Inseam.
Waist In/ Out.
Seat In/ Out.
Crotch In/ Out.
Taper Legs.
Add Braces/ Suspender Buttons.
Take In Sides (Flatten Hips).
Replace Hook & Eye.
New Zipper.

Difficult:

Swing Creases.
Make New Belt Loop.

Very Difficult/ Impossible:

Remove Pleats.
Lower Waistband.
Re-cut Entire Pants.


Vest:

Easy:

Take in sides
Lower neckline

Difficult:

Shorten waistcoat.

Very Difficult/ Impossible:

Lengthen Panels.
Let Outside.

[Gilberto de Piento]

Way upthread someone mentions an overcoat. Unless you live in a place that is always hot if you are going to have a suit I think having a coat to wear with the suit is important. I've been to events where people in suits are clearly very cold but don't have a coat to wear. A suit seems warm until you have to sit still in it for 2 hours outside in spring or fall weather. Another problem is wearing a casual or inappropriately styled coat that makes your nice suit look bad.

Thankfully getting one of these overcoats doesn't seem to be too expensive. I've had two of them, both in mint condition, that I got from thrift stores for $10 each. Add a $10 dry cleaning just to be sure they are perfectly clean and you have $20 in each one. I would see them all the time when I was into thrifting - I imagine they come in never-worn condition from old guy estates.

A hat that goes with the suit and coat also seems like a good idea for outdoor events but I don't have a good solution.

EDIT: The coats I was referring to are called a "single breasted overcoat." One was wool, the other cashmere (a kind of wool apparently).

[unemployable]

Way upthread someone mentions an overcoat.

Black trenchcoats FTW. Should have a liner you can use depending on the weather. Hides urban winter dirt well. Don't wear one in Denver though, people think you're a Columbine shooter.

[Hristo Botev]

I've got a 3/4 length rain jacket/overcoat with a medium-weight liner that I bought from a consignment shop, and it's served me well. Ideally the liner would be removable, as I'm not likely to wear it much when it rains during the summer. But other than that it works well for me as both a winter overcoat (the liner isn't terribly thick, but I can layer underneath it when I travel up north during winter), and as a rain jacket.

[Hristo Botev]

I just finished doing a "deep-dive" on suit basics.

This is quite the list.

FWIW, the general rule of thumb is that your first suit should be either solid charcoal or a navy, cuz of the versatility. Honestly, unless you are wearing suits on TV every day, I can't really imagine too many people these days who even need more than one solid charcoal or navy suit.You can mix it up with tie choice, and maybe also with the shirt (assuming you don't want to just stick with solid white or blue). Some people mix it up with a pocket square as well, though that's not my style (I wear one, but it's just a solid white one). You can also mix it up with having both black and brown shoes/belts. That said, good shoes are about half as expensive as the suit, if you buy new; so owning two pair is a lot of money, and not really necessary. 1 pair of black cap-toes is all you really need.

I don't have anything against patterned suits, but as I'm not Prince Charles, I'm not planning on owning one in my lifetime. I have an Oxford grey suit, in addition to a charcoal one; and it's a lovely suit, but I don't really need it. I'm sure I could have made better use of that $1,500 or whatever.