Just Gravy

[Biscuits and Gravy]

For fuck's sake, that reading list makes me want to put my head in the oven.

Haha, yeah, I read bleak stuff. It helps me keep a healthy perspective when the kids are driving me nuts. Right now I’m re-reading Redwall, though. My dad had kept all of my childhood books, so I pilfered most of them when I went to his house. Also some bleak shit in there! Teenage Gravy loved her some Dostoyevsky and Plath. Looking back, I’m shocked my parents didn’t chuck me into therapy as soon as I brought Neitzche to the dinner table. I guess those good Midwesterners had no idea what the fuck I was reading.

[chenda]

@Biscuits - You might like 'All for Nothing' by Walter Kempowski, about a wealthy Prussian family in 1945 who seal themselves away as the red army inch ever closer to their remote estate. One of the best books I have ever read.

[Biscuits and Gravy]

@chenda Oh hell yes, that sounds bleak as all get out. [adds to list]

[Biscuits and Gravy]

I hit the wall, I think. I've hit it a few times before, but this is different. I cry randomly. Have panic attacks. Dread everything, constantly. My legs feel leaden. I snipe at my loved ones.

Initially I felt so hopeful and optimistic asking my boss about going part time, but he's made it clear with his passive aggressive comments and actions that it's not what he wants. Even my coworkers treat me like I'm no longer part of the team, just because I asked to go part time. We've only interviewed one person for the half-position that my half-leaving would open up, and they were a great fit but we're not hiring them "because." It's definitely not the sunshine and rainbows for which I was hoping, and I think the two options I'm left with are: (1) go part time anyway and endure a toxic work environment for as long as I can and hope it gets better; or (2) quit, take 6 months off, then find another legal job, which wouldn't be difficult with my resume.

I dunno. I started therapy up again and she was like "girl, just take a day to do nothing, and I mean NOTHING" so I did that today and it kinda feels good, but it's foreign. And I get the kids in two hours so :/ fail and I gotta get groceries before I get them so :/ :/ double fail.

Anyway. Just chronicling my attempt to go part time. Maybe it's just not doable in the legal world. Everyone looks down on you. HR literally told me that I should just stay home with my kids because "raising kids is the most important thing a woman can do" and it just makes me want to scream at the world. Okay, if that's what you think, then give me a giant severance so I can go do the necessary societal good of raising good kids, you fucking dicks.

[chenda]

(2) quit, take 6 months off, then find another legal job, which wouldn't be difficult with my resume.

I'd seriously consider this biscuits. You can't quit a bad job with a bunch of dicks too soon. Maybe you could work freelance as well ?

[7Wannabe5]

I don't know if this will be helpful, but my note would be that you will likely never again find yourself in a phase of life that is more overwhelming than the one you are in now, unless you someday choose to martyr yourself without boundary to a full-time career that also requires "Mom" skills such as teaching low-income kids who come to school with no socks or coat in January OR (cheerful thought) you find yourself simultaneously raising your own grandkids, caring for multiple decrepit seniors, and running a non-profit (this happened to one of my poly-partners who is too much of an NFP sweetheart, turning 70 this month and has never achieved "empty nest.")

What I did when I found myself in your situation, and also in terrible shape from my 3 donut/day powered 1 hour commute through deer country, and with less than fully-supportive husband (understatement here) was that I started my own business. I was so desperate I somehow made the time to start the business on top of the job, commute, old house, cranky husband, kids, and depressing donut chub. I quit my job about 3 months later, but it took me another 5 years to quit the cranky first husband, so you're ahead of the game!

[Biscuits and Gravy]

@chenda I dunno. Probably the more mature approach is to take a week or two off work and see if that gives me enough juice to chug on for another two and a half years until I hit that date of creditable service so it triggers me getting my annuity at 57 instead of 62. Ugh. Being responsible.

you will likely never again find yourself in a phase of life that is more overwhelming than the one you are in now

That actually is a really helpful comment, thank you. It’s heartening to know that this is the worst and I’ve managed the worst for 7 years! Whoo Gravy! I was at a work assembly the other day, staring at my coworker next to me, with her perfectly coifed hair and flawless makeup and I *know* that woman has three kids and she caught me staring and I asked how in the fuck she handles all of this and she said “I don’t know. And my husband doesn’t do any of the caretaking. At least my kids are older now.” I am giving myself heavy kudos for lasting seven years, but that woman… I mean, her hair looked so good! And she wasn’t crying. HOW?! Pulling out of the elementary school drop off lane one morning, the mom in the car next to me lit a cigarette and took a long drag and I have never wanted a cigarette more in my life.

simultaneously raising your own grandkids

Oh hell to the no.

I have some depressing donut chub right now, too. Feels weird and most of my clothes don’t fit. Sigh.

ETA: And yeah, I now have the best husband of all time. If I could redo my life, I would just want to be that man’s wife.

[7Wannabe5]

perfectly coifed hair and flawless makeup

Well, those whom I refer to as the "Ballet Moms" because most frequently encountered when taking my daughter to ballet class, often also possessed the skill of terrifying those around them into abject submission. Or there is also the sort of typically larger and somewhat more jolly woman whom you might see wearing a t-shirt that says "If Mama Ain't Happy Ain't Nobody Happy" at an extended family bar-b-que. The rest of us have to work at creating and maintaining the boundaries.

[urgud]

This, THIS, is what makes ERE/FIRE worth the while. Enough with the humiliations, degradations, endless slights big and small. Fuck your boss, fuck the job.

[Biscuits and Gravy]

Fuck your boss, fuck the job.

Haha, I love the enthusiasm, but I’m guessing you don’t have dependents. Sigh, that’s the life, man! Live the dream for me.

[Chris]

Even my cow-orkers treat me like I'm no longer part of the team, just because I asked to go part time.

After a while, things might change. You're the first person to attempt this, and others on the team might be sore that they aren't in a position to take a pay cut. Your asking for a change in schedule is a form of negotiation, and many bosses don't like that because so few people do it. If they're not dictating, they feel like they might be losing. But after a couple months, things might smooth out and return to how things were before. You get your work done reliably, and the days you're not in the office, you're just WFH... minus the W.

And if your boss hires someone else to do your other 50%, who knows, maybe they decide to make that new person full-time, and you can get yourself laid off with a severance (the dream!).

[mooretrees]

What a shit show! But, I would be curious how everything would shake out once it became the “normal” thing that you worked part time. Like maybe the office just needs some fresh drama to take the attention off of you? Is there some drunken office party with the potential for embarrassment coming soon? Some awkward bbq for Memorial Day that will cause all the haters to focus their laser stares on the unfortunate coworker who got drunk and fell into the pool fully clothed?

Remember, once you are part time, you only have to deal with the passive aggressive bs PART TIME!

I hope it gets easier. Like 7w5 says, this is the roughest time as a parent. I work part time, have a stay at home dad and STILL feel overwhelmed with my life. Wtf!?

[chenda]

This is an old thread biscuits but might be useful...

viewtopic.php?t=860&hilit=Lawyer

[Biscuits and Gravy]

@Chris The other people on my team are (1) septuagenarians who derive their entire identities from work and (2) baby lawyers who are chomping at the bit to prove how smart, useful, and self-sacrificing they are. I don’t think they’re sore that they’re not in my position, mostly they just don’t get it, and they think the only reason I can live on $45k/year is because I recently married. I agree with the boss negotiation insight, and that it might just be a waiting game. Thanks.

@moore That’s a great point about only having to deal with the BS part time. I hadn’t considered that. Thanks for giving me that perspective!

@chenda Trying not to self-dox, but I don’t actually have a JD. I studied Mandarin in college. But I needed a job and I’m a strong writer and fast forward 10 years I’m a legal research and writing “specialist” (shudder) and I make 6 figs just… writing. Wild stuff. I have looked into remote contract opportunities, and if I pull the plug that will be my first tentative probe back into the jobby job world.

[ertyu]

As someone without children but who has been burned out to all fuck, taking 2 weeks off won't be enough. You'll just be dragging it on. Quit for an extended period and except the delay, then reevaluate, or spend 30 min every night feeling yourself healed by a white light that meanders round your body, take strength from your spite, and push through at the well-paid position until full-FI. It will be easier to go through the day to day shit if you have a clear goal in sight when it all ends and you are finally done. If you're the type, also take strength from your schadenfreude that the cow-leagues will not be free and they will stay small and trapped in this petty bullshit, thinking it has meaning. If you can, follow the spite route. If you're in the legal field, even if you find another job, it's still likely to be fill of dysfunctional bullshit, I have 2 somewhat-friends working in legal positions and it's all a constant stream of nerve-wrecking insanity. Imo, double down and get out

[delay]

Thanks for your blog update. I offer my wish that you find the calm to snipe at the right people.

Initially I felt so hopeful and optimistic asking my boss about going part time, but he's made it clear with his passive aggressive comments and actions that it's not what he wants.

Work culture may be very different where I live. When I read the above, I wonder if you're interested in your boss' opinion about part time work. Why ask him the question otherwise? By asking your boss he gets to answer. That doesn't make it easier.

To work part time, announce you're working part time, then work part time.

[mathiverse]

To work part time, announce you're working part time, then work part time.

@delay: In the United States, one generally requires approval from your manager and, potentially, other people higher in the hierarchy than your manager to go part time. You have to ask for permission. You can't unilaterally make the decision.

[thef0x]

Agree w @mathiverse, @delay, speaking from personal experience: having folks decide they are making a change is understandable, but as the operator, it's a big problem.

The cost to change/replace staff is very high, so anyone leaning on a business to accommodate their requests needs to understand what they're really asking of that business: reduced productivity, increased complexity, training expenses, employee search + interview process time, redoing documentation, spending energy building rapport between staff, and possibly increases in expenses as per-user subscription fees, payroll tax, medical premiums, 401k/retirement plan contributions, etc. <-- all distractions from the mission.

Respectfully to all here, employees just don't often know how business operations work and therefore the ask itself is made poorly.

A higher % shot: I'd like to go part time; I'll handle the search, interview, documentation, and training outside of my normal business hours (free) to help accommodate the request. I understand it will create drag in the business and here are the ABC things I can do to mitigate that time investment. I will take a 60% pay cut for 50% of the hours because being part time is that important to me.

Even then, if I were the boss, I would probably ask the person requesting part time to leave because it does sour the environment for others and sets a really hard to manage precedent. It's 0% about part time being bad, and 100% about how to structure an organization's complexity (measured as staff in this case) against the requirements of business operations.

I just want to make sure it's clear: none of this has to do with feelings. I want to accommodate every request I can for my staff; I do actually give a shit about their well-being. But I cannot let them tank the ship we all rely on. It's 0% about me being nice or not.

Think of the system and the efficient boundaries of each node. Now give each node the ability to self-regulate their role to such a degree that they can create drift in outputs (revenues, deliverables, product, service, etc) and drift in inputs (interview time, HR, medical premiums, expenses, increased slack chatter, etc). This is why businesses have roles and the best hires are for extremely well defined roles, including when/where their creativity should be implemented vs not.

So to your point @delay, you can make the demand or "just start doing it" but you gotta understand how much of a dick move that is to everyone at that org, and that it will result in you getting fired. Beyond all of the problems it creates, unilateral action in team sports = antisocial behavior.

Edit: sorry my response is a bummer My hope in posting was to help provide context for the situation at hand. I think approaching exec staff/boss again addressing these issues could help the situation quite a bit.

\\

@BnG - my MIL runs her own small part time office, mostly probate stuff. The money is good, it's vaguely flexible, and she gets a lot of referrals.

Picking a demo you can serve well is key re any business; in her case, she gives old folks the time of day when everyone around them is trying to vulture their money while waiting for them to die. I've helped her implement simple systems to offload a lot of the little nagging stuff (Zapier). She likes the work and from the outside it looks more like babysitting than contract writing which might be a welcomed change.

If you want to connect / bounce ideas with her, send me a PM.

[suomalainen]

I wanted to address @urgud and @delay from the employee "assert your boundary and fuck the man" perspective and @mathiverse and @fox from the employer / how it really works perspective.

Yes the employee can assert their boundaries and just say "I'm going part time." In many situations, asserting one's boundaries is extremely important. At the same time, it's necessary to consider one's cultural environment / norms, which in the United States is at-will employment (ignoring unions or other special situations with non-standard arrangements). So if gravy asserts her boundaries, she has to be prepared for the boss to assert HIS boundaries (which is perfectly within his rights) and to say "No, you aren't" if part-time doesn't work for him. Many people in the US will therefore request an "accommodation" to work part time, and they do this because they don't want to take the risk of the assertion -> reverse assertion interaction. In other words, they need the job or they want the job; they just want it a little different.

@fox highlighted some of the considerations from the employer side, but it's not really relevant to the employee, unless, again, they want / need that particular job (but tweaked). The question of how you do it, then, is really a question of leverage. If the employer has the leverage because the employee needs/wants the job, then the employee maybe has to do all that bowing and scraping to get their request accepted. If the employee has the leverage, either because they don't need/want the job and/or the job is a difficult or costly one to fill for any number of reasons, then the employee can more freely foist the costs of their accommodation-request on the employer. But there's no, like, moral reason that you need to bow and scrape to ask an employer for an accommodation, just like there's no moral reason to feel bad about quitting a job you no longer want. You do what makes sense for you; the employer does what makes sense for them.

Some may respond, "but oh, suo, you're being such a transactional dick about this." and my response is, "duh, employment is literally a fee-for-service transaction."

[Frita]

Employment culture in the US, what a loaded topic! I agree with @suo about the transactional nature.

Transaction = short-term focus, best-case goal of stability, worst-case goal of survival

Transformation = long-term focus, goal of innovation/growth/actualization

Then game theory is superimposed on the transactional work environment. If there is a systemic or personal belief that someone has to lose, watch out as that ends up defining the solution-resolving potential. Choosing how to lose does not feel good, especially in an on-going situation. I notice that there also ends up being a gaslighting effect (Working person, you chose this.) moving forward with a losing deal unless one is able to create agency in other ways until not playing becomes an option.