Kamala Harris

[Campitor]

In regards to "adopting an accent" while speaking someone else's words, its completely possible to read aloud anyone's words without adopting their inflections, tones, and accent. I know this because of many years of reading speeches aloud and being graded for it.

Shakespeare spoken by the same person with 2 different accents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K_mZagvy9s
Shakespeare performed in African accent by Ray Fearon (British) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q7apiYunEU
Ray Fearon's actual speaking voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eaCjmyxoQk

There's no need for anyone to speak another's words other than in their own voice unless of course they are acting or doing parody such as Tom Hank's at Michael Clark Duncan's funeral (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsQhB4tJRxw); it comes across as disrespectful or pandering. It's a poor choice.

[Alphaville]

oh yeah poor choice tell me more

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DbHeDCkQxmI

[Stahlmann]

prolly democrats wanna increase capital tax gain. but they won't do it.
republicans at least don't lie, they even don't talk about this.

what's the fuss about?

[ZAFCorrection]

Mirroring is the oldest trick in the book, and it frequently happens subconsciously. I'd say obviously affecting an accent during a speech is about on the same level as any other public speaking fuckup. The "insincerity" is something people engage in continuously in their daily lives; it just isn't recorded or broadcasted.

One thing I would propose as a potential source of conflict is everyone feeling the need to pretend that their political positions are well-educated and logical. My mom, for instance, swears up and down that she is an independent, but for her the Democrats have multiple standard policy positions which are redlines. That, combined with the fact that to her voting for a third party is "wasting" her vote, means that she hasn't voted for a non-Republican in decades. I'd have to listen to much less ranting and get the same level of information if I just heard "I'm a republican." Similarly, Kamala Harris is a fairly run-of-the-mill Democrat. No problem if you don't want to vote for a Democrat. It's a lot faster and low key to just say that.

[Campitor]

oh yeah poor choice tell me more

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DbHeDCkQxmI

Agreed. Fake accents by politicians are cringe worthy.

[Campitor]

Mirroring is the oldest trick in the book, and it frequently happens subconsciously. I'd say obviously affecting an accent during a speech is about on the same level as any other public speaking fuckup. The "insincerity" is something people engage in continuously in their daily lives; it just isn't recorded or broadcasted.

True that. A politician should know better.

[ZAFCorrection]

@campitor

I don't know if you ever watch c-span, but a huge fraction of political oratory is downright amatuerish. 8th grader reading off his paper level. I'm not sure a politician does necessarily know better.

[Alphaville]

a lot of disappointed republicans speaking up for the biden-harris ticket right now.

on, here’s john kasich!

[Campitor]

@campitor

I don't know if you ever watch c-span, but a huge fraction of political oratory is downright amatuerish. 8th grader reading off his paper level. I'm not sure a politician does necessarily know better.

They do know better. The problem is that they know their audience isn’t watching. And it’s compounded by the laziness that develops after delivering your 500th speech. They don’t do better because their constituents don’t demand better. Voters let slide the pablum their politician of choice is spewing.

[ZAFCorrection]

Regardless of whether it is simple incompetence or evidence of a major character flaw, I think we can agree that the standard for political speaking has been set low generally. Thus, it isn't really a salient point when discussing Kamala Harris.

It's ok for one to say they won't vote for someone simply because they don't agree with them. It doesn't have to be a character issue.

[IlliniDave]

It's ok for one to say they won't vote for someone simply because they don't agree with them. It doesn't have to be a character issue.

Yep. There's a fine line between being critical of someone's public performance as a professional elected office seeker and them as a person, exacerbated because the goal of the performance is to convince people who don't know you that you are the performance.

Nowadays the the line is aggressively blurred by both sides, and public discourse is centered on character assassination. Any sort of concern of the everyday populace is immediately weaponized for character assassination. And when such issues aren't readily at hand, issues are created.

Lowering of the standard of political speaking is tied to that, in part I think sloppiness leaves people open for negative interpretation of of their statements as public officials, and in part it is the style of speaking required to engage in character assassination that will engender visceral response from listeners.

Regarding affected accents and such. It's a pretty natural behavior to modify how we verbally communicate when we interact with people whose verbal communication is different than hours, with difference existing in various degrees. That's more-or-less how we learn to speak to begin with. We consider it laudable when people learn languages that are not native to them. I've now lived more than half my life in a different region of the US than where I grew up. Same major branch of language (American English), modestly different dialect (actually dialects). No question I've picked up Southeast US influence, probably more in absorbing idioms from the dialect than pronunciation and inflection, but some of those as well. None was really necessary for efficient and effective communication--our brains seem to be malleable in that regard for a long time.

It's also situational. Many people speak differently at work versus home (I do, but there's only a dog at home), with friends versus family, etc.

It does get a little makes-you-throw-up-in-your-mouth when it is rendered unskillfully based on errant stereotypes with intent to display a bond that doesn't really exist. It gets hard to differentiate from mockery when you are on the receiving end of it. No opinion on KH in this regard--I haven't listened to her enough to get a sense of how her vocal mannerisms may have evolved over time. Safe to say though that every candidate is doing their best to project an image that they hope will advance them in the arena. Some will be more successful than others.

[jennypenny]

If I were Harris, I'd be royally pissed that they scheduled Obama to speak on the same night of the convention. She's supposed to be the heir apparent (and possibly sooner rather than later), and they scheduled her on a night when she'd be overshadowed in the news cycle by Obama's and HRC's remarks. Up until now I thought the DNC was doing a decent job of managing the online convention, but that was a mistake (as was having WJC speak).

[Alphaville]

that obama speech was great though

[jennypenny]

Which they knew it would be. That's my point ... regardless of what you think of Obama, speeches are his thing and everyone knows it -- he didn't accidentally upstage her. I think it shows a lack of confidence in her, which I don't get. She's more qualified than Obama was when they nominated him. And even though she's not 'magnetic', she's lightyears ahead of HRC.

re: speaking ... they all do it. Cory Booker sometimes affects a southern accent when speaking to certain groups which is ridiculous for a guy from Bergen county (don't get me wrong, I like Booker -- he would have have been my VP pick for Biden). It's no different than cursing around low brow crowds or using religious language when trying to woo that crowd. IMO they all sound disingenuous when they do it, but disingenuity is apparently a required -- and excused -- trait for politicians.

[Alphaville]

well, he was going to upstage everyone regardless of when—except maybe michelle ha ha ha. she was really great the other night.

anyway, read this morning that the toddler in chief was tweeting some immature comments as a response. took a quick peek: everything all-caps and extra cringe-worthy.

[J_]

I listened to the speech of Mr Obama too, and I gave a sigh of relief. So glad that he has the courage and eloquence to speak what so many do'nt dare.
Yes, I am not an US-American, I am a European citizen, but I wish the best for my co-citizens in USA too.

[Hristo Botev]

Cory Booker sometimes affects a southern accent when speaking to certain groups which is ridiculous for a guy from Bergen county (don't get me wrong, I like Booker -- he would have have been my VP pick for Biden).

As southerners who grew up in a military town and now live in a large, transient southern city, neither DW nor I really have southern accents; but, rest assured, we both start draaaaawwwwwllllliiiinnnnggg rather significantly when we're around folks that do have southern accents; it's not intentional.

[CS]

I guess I didn't take Obama and Clinton's speeches on the same night as a problem. They were her warm-up acts. And oh how I miss hearing President Obama speak. I used to sneak out to the lobby on one of my jobs on Friday afternoons and 'get coffee' for as long as I dared to watch his pressers on the TV.

I'm a Harris fan, but even so I was irritated at how she chose to structure her speech. She put a bunch of important stuff after the climax. Nitpicky, I know, but I thought "um, when is this over..." Like reading a book that ties up the loose ends in the wrong way and it feels like the story keeps ending, and ending, and oh look another ending. It took away some of the feels for me.

That intro by the three important women in her life! Nice.

Obama does have an amazing cadence to his speaking that is hard for others to match. It just flows. He would have made a great musician.

[Hristo Botev]

Watching the RNC the past couple nights, which has definitely been focused on throwing red meat to the base; and it's got DW and I* wondering: is there not a whole lot of concern that with the Harris pick you've got a East Coast/West Coast ticket, with no representation in flyover? Seems like this election is shaping up to be coasts/urban vs. flyover/rural, perhaps more than any other has been (at least as to policy proposals and sort of cultural themes--e.g., social justice and various equity issues on one side, law and order and religious liberty on the other). And viewed from that lens, seems like a lifelong Senator from Delaware picking another Senator from California is just a bad idea, as opposed to (sticking with Biden's self-imposed female prereq) picking a southerner (e.g., Bottoms, Abrams, Yates), or a midwesterner (Klobuchar, Whitmer, Kelly, Duckworth), or a westerner (Grisham, Masto), or at least someone who is not tied to the coasts at all and who the flyover folks seem to like (Tulsi, of course).

*Perhaps worth noting that we are both conservatives who voted for Hilary in 2016 but haven't made up our mind as to 2020 yet.

[Alphaville]

@hb: i think the biden campaign is relying on his working class bona fides rather than geography itself.

i liked klobuchar, but she might have alienated the progressives too much... and she’s also a senator.

pleasing every faction of a broad-base party with limited choices is no easy feat. was just reading the other day how hispanic activists had to “make peace” with biden as a candidate. see: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

i like some of the other options you present but unvetted candidates also have their risks.

ultimately when it comes to electing the president of a continent it’s all a massive gamble.