Early Retirement Extreme Forums

The link below is a download of the this new act introduced by Rashida Tlaib. Basically a "temporary" UBI. $2000.00 initially and $1000.00 every month there after up to a year after the end of Covid19 crisis. It will be given on a preloaded debit card.
What are your thoughts?

https://tlaib.house.gov/sites/tlaib.hou ... ABCAct.pdf

I think MMT is here to stay because frankly nothing else makes sense anymore.

A wealth transfer would imply taxes were paying for it. The plan (albeit a bit outlandish) is to have the Mint coin 2, 1 trillion dollar coins and have the Fed buy them at face value to provide the cash to distribute. So at current spot prices the coins would weigh 1.38 billion pounds.

I am not sure what is the status of this proposal (?). But looking at the conditions to end it, and given that 2008 crisis took several years to return to the same numbers, accepting it might mean UBI for a long time, which is a nice way to introduce it forever.

ending on the later of
(i) 1 year after the termination of the emergency declared on March 13, 2020, by President under section 501(b) of the Robert Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5191(b)) with respect to the COVID–19 pandemic;
OR
(ii) 1 year after— (I) the national unemployment rate (as determined by the Bureau of Labor Statistics) is within 2 percentage points of the national unemployment rate on the moving average of December 2019 through February 2020;
and
(II) the 3-month average of the national unemployment rate has declined for two consecutive months.

This makes a lot of sense to me in the current climate. If we're going to print money, what better use than to give it to the people?

Light years beyond giving it to multinational businesses like in 2008.

Couple this with repatriating (if not domestically, at least within the hemisphere) essential goods manufacturing and we came out of this better off rather than worse.

If this gets implemented, do you envision yourself 'retiring' instantly considering you can live on $1k a month? Seems like it could backfire big time and not a good idea in general (to retire and live off UBI) similarly to how it's generally not a great idea to hope for full pension etc.

Oh hell yea @Bankai, wife and I would be set for life =D

It's interesting how from an ERE perspective how these "basic" amounts are much above cost of living. What to do with the excess? A 40% savings rate from UBI? The stimulus money should last us two months whereas for hyperconsumers, it's just a drop in a bucket full of holes.

I wouldn't trust the UBI to last forever even if implemented....would keep working. I would toss the extra cash into investments until I reached that 3%/4% threshold off that.

Even still with a UBI...one could be so much more flexible. ERE'ers would be even more resilient . Job loss would basically become a temporary vacation if the aim was to keep working.

Also this would be better in a money questions thread but how does this not lead to inflation....

jacob wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:25 pm

It's interesting how from an ERE perspective how these "basic" amounts are much above cost of living. What to do with the excess? A 40% savings rate from UBI?

Given the probability that the UBI will be paid for with inflation, that seems prudent, at least until such a system would become stable.

nomadscientist wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:19 pm

Given the probability that the UBI will be paid for with inflation, that seems prudent, at least until such a system would become stable.

is there inflation when supply can rise to meet demand?

i’d be much more afraid of deflation...

Bankai wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:45 am

If this gets implemented, do you envision yourself 'retiring' instantly considering you can live on $1k a month? Seems like it could backfire big time and not a good idea in general (to retire and live off UBI)

I only trust the government as far as I can throw it.

UBI would mean everyone could at least semi-ERE instantly (unless someone really really likes their job and/ or really really needs to never ever work to feel "retired"). Gain tons of time to up your Wheaton level and keep a foot in the job market, all while increasing your savings.

Personally I'd feel bad not helping my employers and coworkers through the surgery apocalypse that follows the shutdowns (the hospital is talking about running elective surgeries nights and weekends to make up for revenue shortfalls) and then I'd even more semi-retire to something less stressful (my plan in a few months to a few years anyway).

1. I'm reminded of this thread on whether we need taxes given fiat currency: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11206
2. This bill has a 0% chance of passing

Yeah, it'll never pass. But when things like this are brought up, I always take a few moments and run a thought experiment. If I got 1K a month for life (or whatever your base living expenses are), what would I do different? It's interesting how this changes over time.

UBI seems like a bad idea. People seem to be inherently lazy, and threat of starvation is a good motivator. Might be fine for people like us that would likely be productive and interesting one way or another, but for most folks, unemployment while on unemployment insurance (a proxy for UBI) shows a big spike in TV watching. Also, our national debt is big enough, we can’t afford to give people money, corporation or individual. I suppose UBi would bring about collapse faster though...

I could see it used for disabled people, but that’s already in place with Social Security (most of which should not exist, to motivate people to actually fucking save, or starve. )

UBI is probably bad for ERE because money is worthless in a collapsed economy. Barring robots doing all the work, you can’t run a complicated economy by most people not working and living off a percent of the few that do. Our small stockpile of cash becomes worthless, although our skills and tools certainly are not.

TopHatFox wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:36 pm

UBI seems like a bad idea. People seem to be inherently lazy, and threat of starvation is a good motivator. Might be fine for people like us that would likely be productive and interesting one way or another, but for most folks, unemployment while on unemployment insurance (a proxy for UBI) shows a big spike in TV watching. Also, our national debt is big enough, we can’t afford to give people money, corporation or individual. I suppose UBi would bring about collapse faster though...

we already have ubi for the likes of boeing though, and sovereign debt isn’t the same as household debt because a household does not decree itself money. low national debt is in fact correlated with recession/depression.

besides, watching tv is good for the economy because the commercials incite people to buy buy buy

im only half kidding, lol.

human tests with ubi in finland show that productivity was unchanged although “happiness” was greater.

right now with people unable rather than unwilling to show up to work, it only makes sense to allow people to survive by facilitating the exchange of good and services.

think about it as combat pay: we are the army of the couch-bound, fighting to keep the virus from replicating by doing precisely nothing, instead of bleeding in the trenches.

Deleted. I was being argumentative and don't always need to be.