Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Perhaps one of the most fundamental principles of psychotherapy or relationship management as it would appear it me(*) is something Jacob said a while back.. "Always invert.". It would seem to me after years of deliberation that agents tend to become knotted if they do not invert time. Any story or logic from A to B will become tangled to a crippling degree if not inverted back from B to A on occasion.

(*) .. as someone who is not a professional!

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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by jacob »

daylen wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 9:30 pm
... is something Jacob said a while back.. "Always invert."
That was Jacobi :)

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Here are a couple substitutes for the system that seem more natural:
press -> push
operate -> pull

Points/frames that are in attention can be pushed to reduce complexity; and points/frames that are out of attention can be pulled to increase complexity.

Forming a simplified map onto the functions:
Se - push point out
Si - pull point in
Ne - pull point out
Ni - push point in
Te - push frame out
Ti - pull frame in
Fe - pull frame out
Fi - push frame in

Combining to form mirrors:
SeNi - push points out/in
NeSi - pull points out/in
TeFi - push frames out/in
FeTi - pull frames out/in

Combining to form quadras:
NeSiFeTi - pull
SeNiFeTi - push points, pull frames
SeNiTeFi - push
NeSiTeFi - pull points, push frames

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Taking on a broader view.. the micro-theory of Attentional Dynamics can synergize with the macro-theory of Spiral Dynamics to produce meso-theories for entities such as corporations/institutions/organizations. Combining topology with color to produce spiral diagrams that allow us to peer deeply into the communication patterns of civilization. For instance, consider the green cores that have built up green walls around many institutions leading to a disconnect with other colors within and from outside which are essential for these institutions to persist.. further leading to a viral censorship of information with apparent first-order implications that conflict with green values concerning the harm that information may cause without much consideration for further-order implications.. perhaps adding kindle to the fire that distracted from plausible sources of integral solutions, for instance, the Ivermectin potential for helping to prevent/eliminate the COVID problem and perhaps future viral problems in general.. leading to a colorful diagram that can be mapped onto the surface of a sphere with Earth-like scaling.. leading to an intuition enhancer for current, global events.. maybe leading to more integral proposals to the problems we all face.

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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by jacob »

One possibility is that green appeared too early before orange was solid. A more plausible explanation is that green is projected onto red or blue depending on the institution and whoever is implementing the green vmeme, e.g. students, lawmakers, or managers. Green does seem to fare slightly better in cultures that are more orange.

If that's the case, this also makes the meta-crisis much harder to solve given the lack of psychotechnics to move individuals and society forward w/o bringing baggage along. I can't decide whether it's a good idea for psychotechnics to be available in its raw form ("Am I ready to learn this?") due to how it feeds back into itself when it comes in contact with simpler forms.

For sure, any construct can be explained at any level. The conflict lies if any one of those explanations lead to behavior that is incompatible with the construct in its highest form. (The problem of how stupid always finds a way.) It would be interesting if there was a more mechanical way of doing this beyond "intuition", "lots of experience", and "making slow changes only".

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

New post up on blog titled "Dealing in Futures". Briefly starts to disclose various factors and states of a generalized civilization while synergizing with foundations.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

I reached to grasp a beige rock while gasping for air.
The frenzy turned to dance caught by the purple moon glare.
I reached for a red blade and banner to lead through to the sun.
The heat melted blades and erected barriers to the blue wave fun.
I reached across to shovel and sift the soil orange with hidden ore caches.
The search for the hidden blinded to how the green foliage patched us.

I reached but could not quite touch the yellow stars that shined before.
The refraction of the sun penetrated a turquoise sky and now we are touched for after.

Dual not, for who not.
Last edited by daylen on Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Spiral dynamics is like stepping up and down a hemispheric ladder to see what culture is doing. Energy originally originates from the base of the spine and spirals up, until the lower spine becomes one with the higher spine and energy spirals down again. Masculinity pushes energy to communion and lower spine; femininity pulls energy from communion and lower spine.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

The light that shines down on earth forms a gradient of disorder where rocky earth is more ordered than chaotic sky, thus life builds a ladder up into the sky and down into the ground to cover the gradient of dissipation emerging into being.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

A few possible axioms in the construction of the meso are:
  • Spirals cross gradients.
  • Spirals ground, exclude, include, and transcend.
  • Paths of development drive the evolution of spirals.
  • Development flows from attention.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

We are in a relatively early phase of green development in institutions that are mature orange and thus ready. The consequences of this natural development are spreading throughout the public to find other institutions ready to develop more into green. This is natural and will eventually mellow out as intuitions develop defense mechanisms which exclude some of the pushing and pulling coming from colors one or two stages away.

Higher education is currently in the spotlight and seems to be stabilizing gradually because orange is solid and yellow is pulling from the cutting edge of complexity, entropy, systems theories, field theories, and so forth. Given a lack of yellow pull in lower education it would appear that reform is unlikely unless green and yellow become more solid elsewhere in the next fifty years, which is possible.

Another area to look out for is the medical/health systems which are largely orange and being heavily pulled by green and yellow. A green health system is heavily resisted by mega-pharma because it would make more use of alternative and cheap medicines which are bad for orange profits. A trend in this direction will be interesting to see and probably a bit chaotic in the next 25 years.

A solid yellow approach to high-leverage areas like health and education would completely transform society. Currently, these solutions are ineffectual due to the triangular power lock between blue-orange-green in some parts of the world and red-blue-orange in others.

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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by jacob »

One of the most insightful observations I've seen is how green can (and does) inadvertently cut the spiral by taking blue out, e.g. using the "heterarchy is the only way"-hammer. This traps a lot of red which will find it very hard to go to orange lest it's done in a rather sociopathic way which machine-thinking/commodification unfortunately makes it rather easy to do. The red factor can also be increased by increasing the general fear level both directly and indirectly by removing the various safety nets (e.g. parental presence).

I have to admit that I have a whole new appreciation for the "traditional" blue role in preventing that although there are other ways. Key-point---easily forgotten: Some colors really are better at dealing with specific other colors, just like Wheaton, and we eliminate them at our peril. It's like fucking up an eco-system by taking out a keystone species. But with all of them dynamically competing to dominate the memeplex, it's like a multi-spectrum rock-paper-scissors game. It's hard to deliberately design an ecology. Even small changes tend to be irreversible.

Ultimately, it would probably be for the best if color representation is properly age-adjusted or population adjusted, e.g. don't be X until you're N yo(*). Ideally it should reflect maturity, but unfortunately it's impossible to see/agree on what that is. Same problem wrt democracy. What I mean is the sheer terror of 20yos acting green or 70yos arrested in red. Whatever process is there should automagically aim at least for some kind of stand-off ... a game theoretical stability with no dominant strategy. I bet there are some "computational political scientists" playing simulation games. I'll keep an eye out for stuff like that.

(*) Adding: As it is, it seems that most quickly converge asymptotically towards their destination color, which is set by surroundings, only to stay there until death. The magic key should exist in these surroundings.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Based upon your analysis that green takes blue out and my experience growing up slightly sociopathic it appears that in a society where a green Wikipedia is available to replace surrounding opinions, agents with sociopathic dispositions will be less likely to get stuck at red when observing softness or insecurity in blue. I would expect that agents in such a position stand a much better chance at development if they can somehow find a dopamine trail through green information sources that can distract from regressive displays of boredom. If the "hit" from feeling more aware of issues than blue forms into an addiction for predisposed agents then they may be able to channel empathy or understanding through respectable parts of green when ready. Thus building an understanding of blue and later green.

Another factor to becoming stuck at red comes from underexposure to blue which is becoming quite common in densely populated, orange-green cities. I was fortunate enough to be exposed to blue and orange early on and thus was able to compare how each reasoned about the world. Leading me to a highly agnostic position on most religious and political topics early. Thus avoiding the trap of neglecting blue as I have seen many others do around me.
Last edited by daylen on Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:21 pm, edited 8 times in total.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

This leads to a more general principle that people who lean very right or left brained may have a challenging time stepping up the hemispheric ladder because stepping up requires a balance of activity alternating between the slight dominance of one side over the other at any given time.

A highly right-brained person may require left-brain focused teachings at a level that dissects the next left-step. By symmetry, a highly left-brained person may require right-brain focused teachings at a level that dissects the next right-step.

This can probably be extended to other personality dichotomies. The right/left one just captures a significant amount of the variation in this space.

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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

An agent at red may see blue, green, and turquoise as all one thing; and an agent at purple may see red, orange, and yellow as all one thing. Thus if an agent can only see parts of the next stage due to a subconscious filtering mechanism that the next stage cannot resolve, then the exposure of that agent to more encompassing versions at higher stages may eventually plant enough seeds to start growing that color in the mindful forest of that agent.
Last edited by daylen on Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Another perspective is that in the more chaotic swings of cultural cycles, institutions will tend to close off the flow of agents from surrounding stages to a higher degree. For instance, blue may tighten up by preaching more nuanced rules and thus loosing reach into red. A stressed green institution may freeze the flow of orange and end up regressing into something like Evergreen State College.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

jacob wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:57 pm
I bet there are some "computational political scientists" playing simulation games. I'll keep an eye out for stuff like that.
On many fronts the video game industry beat academia to it and hopefully academia can learn from them while pushing into yellow. From academia I see stuff like network-dynamics and agent-based modelling tied to one-off programs, and from the gaming industry I am seeing highly complex simulations for entities like civilizations and cities with their own green wiki's, like the Civilization series I have put a few thousand hours into to develop an instinct for how things may crudely work at that scale of reality. Another one I like for connecting Ne to Ni is Cities Skylines which simulates cities surprisingly enough.

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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

This is an interesting podcast so far on the interface of cognitive science and spirituality with John Vervaeke and Jordan Peterson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLg2Q0daphE

John mentions the distinction between a hot flow and a cold flow. A hot flow is energizing but typically short and exhaustive. A cold flow is relaxing and can go on for hours without a sweet. Perhaps Kegan1 and Kegan5 are related in the sense that they are often in flow but K1 frequently enters into a hot flow and thus loose energy rapidly. Maybe the cold flow at K1 lacks the points/frames necessary to find their way back in time and thus remember, whereas hot flows may help to associate with points/frames and thus learn. At K5, it feels like the hot flows are much briefer and thus interwoven in with cold flows most of the time and hence the continuous transformation.

There are some interesting comments related to the holographic trend of interpretation where by objects are holographs which contain all the information of the universe projected onto the surface(*). This also relates to the holographic principle from physics:
The holographic principle is a tenet of string theories and a supposed property of quantum gravity that states that the description of a volume of space can be thought of as encoded on a lower-dimensional boundary to the region—such as a light-like boundary like a gravitational horizon.
(*) Hence the black hole simulation hypothesis I discussed early in my journal. That being said, I haven't found much use in thinking too hard about simulation theory.
Last edited by daylen on Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Perhaps a hot flow initiates after a literal or metaphorical right hand grasp to a point and is relieved after a literal/metaphorical left hand search for alternative frames.

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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Continuous with the above, a cold flow could result from the balancing of which hand holds the point. In other words, the ego is in reality and reality is in the ego.. or something like that anyway.

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