Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

Post by daylen »

Language is built upon opposites. Potentially represented as two arrows on opposing sides of an agent curve pointing outwards or inwards. Since it is presumed that only one direction can be followed at a time in the spotlight view, dichotomies have decision making power (this or that). With a holographic view, opposites can only arise simultaneously in relation to an identification boundary. Without boundaries, opposition is non-existent, or at least malleable into semi-similarities. With punctures and mirrors in typology presenting oppositions within a single spotlight in such a way that a pivot is provided to homogenize spotlights in general across all identifications (i.e. on each point of the agent curve). In other words, a personality model along with attentive exercises have the potential to dissolve identifications. How this is done gradually for any agent with sharp oppositions is an ongoing area of research and experiment. Therapy is the name of the game in the 21st century as Jacob has so eloquently noted.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Very curious about the future collaboration between assembly theory, artificial intelligence, complexity theory, statistical mechanics, and many more as such could lead to artificial life. Perhaps Lee Cronin and Sara Walker are onto something about life of various forms being easier to create than we realize. Machines already exist that can automate simple chemical processes. What happens when sophisticated chemical processes can be shared via code that can nearly replicate experiments to perfection? What happens when every local pharmacy can create individualize pills that proportionate medications on the spot? Or when kingpins only need to get their hands upon a few thousand dollar machine to produce meth+ in mass? What happens when AI is introduced to search the space of possible life forms? What if humans are not the first life on mars, but rather a specially designed life form that can do it better than us? How might all this change our views on life beyond our solar system?

Perhaps we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves. :)

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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States, types, zones(*), turnings, & spirals cover a sizable chunk.

1. The map is not the territory. AND We have mapped some territory.
2. Agents exist in state-space-time.
3. The spirit of the past extends into the future.
4. Counting to infinity takes forever.
5. Counting to zero is instant
6. Strategy guides tactics. OR Tactics follow strategy.
7. Agents have a finite, relative, deep, & internal soul.
8. The breath of the soul is mirrored externally.

Acting Principle: Similarities & Differences arranged as/in holarchies.

This axiomatic list may serve as a starting point for a structured introduction to a system that extends upon Wilber, Jung, Strauss, & Howe directly/explicitly and many others indirectly/implicitly.

(*) Extension of the quadrants (I, WE, IT, ITS) to.. (singular, plural) x (ego, eco) x (inner view, outer view) -> 8 zones of methodology (Wilber's newer stuff).

structures envelop maps envelop agents envelop frames envelop points
points develop frames develop agents develop maps develop structures
Last edited by daylen on Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Agents of a discrete/continuous type as/in a state-space-time turning a zone communally as/in a spiral.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Reading Hanzi Freinacht now and his reasoning is resonating better than Wilber's on some key points. Will be interesting to compare further.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Joscha Bach presented the Stages of Intelligent Agency which matches up to Kegan levels and centers the role of finite state machines. The simplicity is aesthetically pleasing. His thinking in general is steering me towards looking more deeply at the implications of Godel's theorems and Platonism.

1. Regulator (feedback loop).
2. Predictive Controller (models future).
3. Agent (controller with setpoint generator).
4. Sentience (models itself).
5. Transcendence (links up to next level agents).

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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I suspect that there are many ways to tie together ego with eco (aka zone links), and finite state machines capture all that can be implemented. In the singular half of the zones: phenomenology, functionalism/structuralism, cognitive science, and empiricism are all united through the assumption that constructive mathematics works and stateless mathematics(*) does not because it runs into infinite contradictory interpretations at the edge of infinity or zero.

The pluralistic versions of these fields including hermeneutics, ethnomethodology, social autopoiesis, and systems theory. Which could potentially just be computer networks.

Any stateful activity is reducible to an algorithm controlling a finite turing machine in particular and a finite state machine in general where architecture can match up or "fit" a particular paradigm of study.. a mode of being that perhaps cannot be reconciled between agents. Consciousness is virtual and reality can be pushed down to transitions between states (aka functions or mirrors) [according to this paradigm anyway].

(*) Which assumes that continuous entities like the natural numbers and pi exist alone and not as functions to be implemented into an algorithm on some architecture.
Last edited by daylen on Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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If you have a network of finite state machines then there is almost certainly noise in the communication but this cannot be true noise in this paradigm because true noise cannot be generated virtually with a finite state machine! This is getting loopy.
Last edited by daylen on Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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So are the mystics closer to the truth in that fundamental reality is infinite and stateless? I see this theme recurring again and again, and perhaps it hints at what Kegan6 would need to solve. It would need to explain why agents in a network can conflict on virtualism vs realism going back to Plato. Footnotes to..

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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What I have been calling the hologram and the spotlight are now essentially synonymous with the mystical paradigm and the computational paradigm respectively. As holograms implicate a lower dimensional manifold that maps onto the higher dimensional manifold that is experienced directly where reality can be arbitrarily cut at real and potentially even imaginary distances (includes infinite sequences denoting arbitrary precision).

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Hence, axiom 4 above corresponds to the computational paradigm and axiom 5 corresponds to the mystical paradigm where counting to infinity takes forever implies required computability and counting to zero being instant implies arbitrary distance perception.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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I suspect some geometry and some archetypes are encoded into the human genome to emerge as brain circuits in some shape/form. I wonder how and to what degree. I also wonder how far back in evolutionary time these go. Fish can probably do intuitive trigonometry. Implying intuitionism in math which is a slippery slope to stateless, infinite math. There seems to be cognitive scientific evidence of at least a topological mapping from brain circuits to circles. Of course, when looked at closely only a discrete pattern can be identified/instrumentalized and hence the computational paradigm gains favor here as a reductionist rock bottom. Perhaps Penrose is onto something with the quantum mind, though this would require a touch of non-locality, and I am not sure how he goes about reconciling computation with such assumptions. I may give his thoughts another shot.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Chris Langan is an interesting figure to say the least. I would like to look more closely at the CTMU. He does seem to however discount the capability of distributed finite state machines with complicated or even complex architectures potentially overlaying the human noosphere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-bRM1kYuNA

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Perhaps AI would flourish from a unification of bottom-up intention training and top-down architecture printing. Where limbs are assembled to perform tasks in various contexts while a framework is used to deduce 2D and 3D [classical or quantum] architectures that afford a holoarchy of complicated gates built up into programs.

Constructing context is the hard part.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Human history thus far can be [simply] thought of as superimposed waves peaking near a Faustian Bargain that trades soul points/structures and near a Rational Bargain that trades agent/communal spirit.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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At a high level my thought space is starting to take on the form..

( computational paradigm, mystical paradigm ) -> volution -> ( integral integration, metamodern integration )

Where volution is a drawing system [in progress(*)] for identifying and instrumentalizing affordances/adaptations for agents and communities based on geometry/topology. The computational and mystical paradigms assuming incompatible epistemologies hinged upon bayes theorem and synchronicity respectively. Integral and Metamodernism presenting two different sets of attractors for drawings to crawl towards (i.e. potentially in the limit).

Integral -> ( quadrants, spirals, states, lines, types )
Metamodernism -> ( complexity, code, state, depth )

Though, fleshing out the template above could take multiple lifetimes. In the meantime perhaps I should direct some energy towards smaller scale projects like viewtopic.php?t=12331 or like Jacob's excellent type introduction viewtopic.php?t=12360 .

(*) https://daylenjbonner.github.io/volution/ (haven't updated since release)

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Perhaps integral is oriented more towards an F crowd and metamodernism towards a T crowd. I am staring to favor metamodernism, though I do not see much harm in keeping both on a high-level table. Similarly, I tend to favor the computational paradigm due to the universe I observe. Though, I am convinced that the universe isn't just finite state machines all the way down.. unless it goes on forever in which case the mystical paradigm is fundamental anyway. For the computational paradigm to completely encapsulate reality, there would need to be a basement level machine with a finite ontology that built itself.. seems absurd if you ask me.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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This is the kind of insight that pushes people towards turquoise like behavior, I think. As then there isn't much reason to grapple with simulation theory and the way the universe appears is eternally capable of being itself.. so just live it like an infinite dream.. right here.. right now. Starts and ends dissolve away.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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Statistical mechanics [aka entropy] coarse grains things out of existence, and assembly theory [aka intropy] assembles things into existence. They are dual-sides of the same epistemology without an agreed-upon ontology of things to start or end with.

daylen
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Re: Daylen's Instinctual Dump

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I will try to go into some details of my own life thus far to add meat to the skeleton theory being laid out in viewtopic.php?p=257079#p257079 .

A story can be generated based on activities and how they cluster with time, then depth of each function during and after these clusters can be inferred based upon what I know now about how functions work.

Starting with passive Si and Ni, I have a trailing past of particular memories (Si) indicating that certain activities were engaged with along side a universal predictor of likely futures (Ni) that both work concurrently to distort the story I am about to tell.

We can go ahead and break up my life into chapters as this would seem to be a mid-high depth Si move:

Childhood: 0 to meeting step family (around 9 or 10 yo)
Hellhood: living with step family until about 16
Awakening: 16-17
College: 18-22
Deconstruction: 22-24
Reconstruction: 24->

What I remember of childhood was fine. I had a great family that I interacted with a lot. Mom and dad never married but got along. I would go to my dad's a couple times a week. Of course, I didn't know this at the time but my mom is an ENFP (NeFi) and my dad an ESTP (SeTi). For some reason or another, I always felt more comfortable letting loose around my mom, and I think this was partially due to being around her more and partially due to her not being intimidating in the sense that I wanted to be like her. I could see my mom's polar Ti blunders very early, yet my dad seemed to have his own internal tracking of logical distinctions that I found interesting. My Ne-Fe wasn't sufficiently comfortable diving deep into my dad's worldview until just a couple years ago. Anyway, childhood was fine, I had a group of friends at school I hung out with and listened to music and stuff. I also had a few moments of Ni-realization, I think. Like I have this memory of acting like a wizard out in nature that re-surfaced years later during intense acid trips. I get these very complex prophecy-like, appearing into the glass ball kinda vibes when this memory resurfaces.

Onto hellhood, which is really just me being a first-world pussy, since in reality it was fine too. Problem was that it was extremely difficult to find meaning given that my every move was evaluated by my new step family in a shared house. This time period has the most densely packed memories so hard to filter. Generally, my ESFJ (FeSi) step brother Travis was a year older than me, slightly bigger than me, and much much cooler than me. Everyone knew him in our school (from elementary to middleschool to highschool). I later grew to admire him as he was a pretty chill guy, though initially I wanted him dead or I wanted to have his life. Envy, I suppose in hindsight, was the primary driver for me in this chapter which is interesting given his personality was in the same quadra yet flipped from mine (TiNe). This made it hard to actually make friends as they had to be considered "cool" and not weird(*). though I did eventually end up making several superficial friends that were considered "cool". When middle-school came around these friends stopped inviting me to hang as they had access to all these other cool kids from across town. I don't blame em' as I basically never talked unless it was to respond in a safe and agreeable way. Though, I was never not cool from the perspective of my class at large because I was very good at blending in on the edge of cool tables, plus my neuroticism was extremely low so I was always able to keep emotions in check.

(*) else Travis would not respect me and I perceived this as hell at the time. In hindsight, perhaps it would have been "better" to not try to be like him but then perhaps I wouldn't have tried to mimic Si and Fe from him.

The next chapter of awakening is an interesting one indeed and has some synchronicity ringing around it. Basically, I found a new group of highschool friends that liked to party, sell drugs, and buy drugs. Some of us also playing the hookup game, but I was really bad at making advancements so I just had a GF or two. We have a lot of fun and also a lot of teenage shenanigans that luckily didn't send me off on the prison route like some people I knew. Some highlights being tripping ecstasy while raving and later watching yellow submarine, a couple drug deals gone bad, and eventually getting caught shoplifting and having to due community service as a diversion for my record. Had several of these looking through the looking glass type moments. Eventually, I settled with a GF for about a year and drifted away slowly from the party lifestyle.

I don't really remember why or how but eventually I made the decision to learn as much as possible about everything. In particular, I strategically started with math, physics, and economics so that everything else would be easier to learn. This was about a semester before I was going to graduate from HS. Part of me thinks I was planning this 180 degree turn long before I actually did it and this is why I don't really remember a sharp turn even if everyone else around me did. Perhaps this was Te-Ni building up in the background and strengthened through paying the consequences of my actions during the awakening chapter.

Onto college, this chapter is boring. Basically, I studied everything while planning to become some kind of academic. Later on during a deconstruction chapter, I figured out how to buy drugs online and went through an acid phase (had done once before during awakening). This sorta led to a disillusionment with society and confronted me with the potential collapse of civilization. This took a couple years of processing to settle into a relatively more comforting space in which the full range of states could be experienced reliably. As if you are confident in your ability to find your way back to bliss from hell and back, you become one with the wind while surfing an ocean of currents, so to speak.

Reconstruction -> see this journal. So, what can be inferred? Perhaps I wasn't as strongly typed in childhood and this persisted into hellhood which marked my K2->K3 transition, yet also provided a model of what I did and didn't go along with even if envy was persistently at the gate for an alter persona that eventually allowed me to internalize how un-naturally S and F came to me. I only had to start and quit 10 sports before I realized I was mediocre at all of them (I was pretty good at physical activity that didn't involve others much, like pitching and shooting baskets Si>Se). Now-a-days I have worked several physical jobs where paying attention to my surroundings is important and it is becoming more tolerable even as I dip into lower states.

Would seem that for most people, they would start off with low-depth dominate functions starting in the mid-states and eventually encounter a situation that didn't go according to plan sending them down in a depressive spiral that may or may not be handled by the dominate functions.. leading eventually to mid-depth dominate functions and low-depth non-dominate functions within their paradigm (functions 1-6). Then perhaps they reach a bottom within their paradigm that alerts them to the far shadow that emerges as low-depth, low-state miseries that if lucky, get integrated back into the self centered somewhere in the mid-states.

I wonder to what extent having little Fi leads to chaotic emotional situations that are harder to integrate yet buff the "evidence" side of the Bayesian equations? At the same time, little Fi means little outlet for Te meaning not very effective at whatever it is that you think you should be doing.
Last edited by daylen on Sat May 07, 2022 1:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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