COVID-19

[jacob]

@cL - Do you know if there's reason for preferring N95 (not oil resistant) over say P95 (oil proof)?

@LuckyC - We have similar equipment. I'm not an expert, but this is what I would do. Staying outside, I'd put on nitrile gloves and take the mask off. Unscrew the filters and wipe the plastic parts of the filters down with a cloth dipped in chlorine. I'd wash the mask in cold soap(*) water. Then remove and toss the gloves and wash my hands. Probably not perfect, but pretty good. Yes, there'd be particles stuck in the filter, but they should stay in the filter until they die. I'm more concerned about particles that go on top of the mask or other things (glasses, clothes, ... ) where they could be transferred to the face via the hands.

(*) I know they sell fancy soaps for this but I find dish detergent works fine or at least so far so good.

@Ego - Typhoid Mary.

[Sclass]

I use my p100 2097 masks for yard cleanup. Does miracles for allergies. I rarely take off the pink filters unless I notice they’re clogged to the point of restricted flow. I just dust off the outside and swab the muck off the rubber part with a wet wipe. If I end up using the masks for viral protection I’ll use a Clorox wipe to clean up the outer rubber surface.

Otherwise as @jacob says just leave it alone and let the nasties stay inside the filter. Mine are full of pollen and brake dust so I don’t disturb them.

When I do change them I recall the disk filters are quite cheap. Mostly I do it for cosmetics. The dirty external filter bother my wife because she thinks the mask is ineffective once dirty and soiled.

Oh yeah I think I mentioned this in an old p100 thread. Beware of knockoff filters. I’ve seen some deals on Amazon marketplace (third party) that are too good to be true. Chinese counterfeits all the way down to the OSHA markings. I buy mine at Home Depot. They’re cheap enough and last a long time.

The 2097 has some limited organics protection as well. It doesn’t have the charcoal canisters like the bigger ones but I notice I cannot smell solvent odor through them or even cooking odors for that matter.

[jennypenny]

Anyone watching the WHO press conference? Their non-committal remarks and body language are not reassuring. And 'oops, we accidentally put the word 'moderate' into the earlier press release this week''?? They are too focused on what they and everyone else has done right up to this point instead of where things are headed. Too much CYA ... I'm more worried than I was before.

[jennypenny]

I tried to find a clip of an interview with Tom Frieden (former CDC head) from Bloomberg this morning to compare the seriousness of his tone with the WHO press conference. I watched it on youtube on Bloomberg's channel so I know it was there, but now it's gone. Weird that it was pulled. I found a copy of it on another channel ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvGGflWNfx0

There was another interview with Frieden on an international channel that was also pulled. That concerns me greatly. I don't know whether it's because China is trying to crush all negative press about the virus or because 'officials' are afraid of causing a panic. Either way, I'm definitely more concerned today.

[Sclass]

I got a call last night from friends in the mainland. They say the streets of their towns in central China are empty. The dad was gone in their car to drive to the coast to get p95 masks. I asked if he was going to sell them and they said no, they’re for family. Apparently there are no masks.

I just got back from Home Depot. All the 3M p100 masks are gone. All the cheap p95 are gone. It is a disconcerting feeling to see the empty shelf. Nitrile gloves in the big box are gone. They still had the little six packs.

Basically the same as Lowe’s yesterday.

I’m not really a prepper but heck, I’m really happy to have some respirators in my workshop and boxes of nitrile gloves for auto mechanics. I guess I’m going to keep my ski goggles unpacked too. Sheesh.

A trip down to Sprouts got me $25 of organic lentils that were on sale. No run on those. I got some organic low sodium canned beans and 20 lbs of basmati long grain rice. I tried not to get carried away and only got things I usually eat. Somehow we ate through out stockpile of lentils this fall...Instantpot novelty.

Dual fuel stove ready to go. Twenty gallons of water by the cooler.

Damn this is silly. This will blow over.

[ZAFCorrection]

My current theory is this virus is spreading much faster across the globe than people are realizing, partially because the technocrats don't want to look too closely for fear of upsetting the almighty equities markets (which is why the WHO is acting suspiciously). This is compounded by the fact that for most people the symptoms look like every other random sickness you pick up every so often. If you are not particularly sick and haven't been in Wuhan lately, there is basically no chance you are going to get counted in the official numbers or have any quarantine procedures run on you. The measly mortality rate of ~2% is probably also overstated by a lot.

I'll be more worried when/if there are leaks of mass graves or the like.

[AnalyticalEngine]

This thread, combined with a complete lack of understanding of germ theory of disease from everyone I've tried to talk to has me sufficiently worried. At least I got the last N95 masks from Walmart. Worse case would be it's already in Denver but no one knows yet.

[black_son_of_gray]

I just got back from Home Depot. [...]
A trip down to Sprouts

Are you me? Yesterday SO and I went to Home Depot then Sprouts

After following the developments over the weekend, I decided to take a walk to Trader Joe's on Monday because I wanted to re-up on peanut butter, and PB is one of the things that's a pretty good deal there. I typically keep a stock of PB on hand for earthquake preparedness - it's calorie dense, doesn't require heating or cooling, shelf stable, cheap, delicious, and I eat tons of it anyway - but I figured it wouldn't hurt to re-supply for whatever happens with this virus. Once I got back home, I started to divvy up the new jars between the various plastic tubs where we keep our earthquake materials and discovered that one of the 2.5 gallon water jugs had leaked into the tub at some point leading to mold on some cardboard packaging, wet changes of clothes, and dampened a pack of N95 masks. It's a bad idea to wear masks after they've gotten wet for some unknown duration, because if they've started growing mold, you really don't want to be inhaling that...so even though they still look fine, I'm not taking any chances.

So off we went yesterday to Home Depot on an errand run to resupply, and sure enough, the employees showed us the completely bare shelves and explained that they wouldn't have any more for a few days, and also related that the day before some woman had loaded up a whole cart with the masks and cleaned them out*. They suggested we try the Home Depot Pro/Contractor store down the street. They had some behind the counter, we bought two packs (six masks total - that's all we wanted anyway). Through some miscommunications of how much we wanted during the checkout we learned that they would limit us to five packs each...which was kinda funny because they only had maybe 30 packs total from all the different brands.

(*) Initially, I took that to mean that the woman was scared out of her mind and being either really irrational (she'd bought hundreds of masks) or simply selfish... but then I saw an article that mentioned some people in the US were buying masks specifically to ship to friends or relatives in China that need them, so I've kinda come full circle back to neutral on that. After all, everything done to prevent spread within China helps to prevent spread to the US (and elsewhere) too.

Then we did our typical Sprouts run, which we do every ~6 weeks or so, and bought something like 20 lbs of various dry bulk goods (incl. the organic lentils which were on sale ) like we normally do (oats are another great earthquake food as they don't need to be cooked, just a soaking overnight). I'm half convinced that I'm the reason our local Sprouts offers 50lb bags of oats...

For the whole morning running errands, I saw maybe 3 or 4 people wearings masks. Something like 1/3 of the population where I live is Asian, so it's not that unusual to see that many people wearing masks at any given time of the year.

TL;DR... partially inspired by this thread, I ended up checking on my earthquake kit only to discover a problem related to a leaking water jug that I've thankfully fixed. Feeling prepared, not too worried currently, but I'll keep following daily updates.

[classical_Liberal]

@cL - Do you know if there's reason for preferring N95 (not oil resistant) over say P95 (oil proof)?

N95's are like the "industry standard" for healthcare airborne. I'm really not sure the reasons for that.

[classical_Liberal]

@bigato
Given the attention this thing has gotten on the forum, I don't think you're alone

[bostonimproper]

I'm with ZAFCorrection. I wouldn't be surprised if end of year we end up having higher than normal "flu" deaths from undiagnosed Wuhan coronavirus.

[Ego]

I'm half convinced that I'm the reason our local Sprouts offers 50lb bags of oats...

Another Sprouts buyer here. I keep a 50lb bag of rolled oats in the basement along with a gamma seal container that holds another 50lbs. When I open a bag, I begin watching for oats to go on sale at Sprouts and buy another bag when the sale happens.

As mentioned above, I bought a case of N95 surgical masks at the swap meet over the weekend. I haven't started selling them yet but I've given some away. Today a seller at the swap meet by the border had a big sign that said "N95 Masks" and below it was selling cheap non-N95 paper masks at $25 for a box of 10.

Guy in Anaheim selling them for $10 each or $65 for a box of 10.
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/for ... 65131.html

[AnalyticalEngine]

Where inside of Sprouts are you all finding these bulk bags? Mine only sells scoop by the pound style as far as I can tell.

[Ego]

Ask the bulk manager. They will bring it from the back and give 10% off.

[Sclass]

Hey thanks for the tips on oats at Sprouts. 50lbs sounds like a big bag. Do they last (store) a long time or do you gradually eat through them? I cut my granola with a handful but I buy a cup or two a week.

My mom used to get things like this for us at the feed lot where she got our chicken mash. I hate to think how much pesticide I got on grains not fit for human consumption. It was odd her way to cut our food bill. I just dumped her forty year old wheat cache. Several five gallon buckets. It looked okay but I wasn’t very interested in keeping it since it outlasted the disintegrating five gallon buckets it was stored in. It started attracting rats.

I saw this on masks.

https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inli ... k=YZnvZVhl

[Ego]

As mentioned in other threads, I don't generally panic with this type of stuff. We didn't leave Asia for SARS and we went to Africa just as the largest ever Ebola outbreak was beginning in 2013-4. I find contagions interesting. The viral contagion is almost as interesting as the fear contagion. It is fascinating to me how people and systems react. This outbreak is particularly interesting because segments of large interconnected systems are beginning to shut down. My mind works in a funny way. I cannot stop it from playing out the possible permutations. Not in a bad way. Kind of like a game of chess.

@Sclass, yeah we eat a lot of rolled oats. I bought a 50 lb bag in the second week of October and we are on the last few pounds of it. The second bag is waiting in the basement along with a bucket of brown rice. A few weeks ago my scratch-n-dent grocery guy at the swap meet sold me 30 8-ounce bags of organic quinoa with a January 2020 best-by-date for $10, so we are set with that for a while. We've always got the pantry full of dry kidney, black and garbanzo beans.

Most of my emergency preparedness gear is really just my backpacking gear. I've got three gasoline powered stoves (2 are for sale) but the only gas I have is in the car. We have several 20 liter bottles of water that are still in the basement from the last time we were here. It is extremely doubtful that the water will get turned off but if it does I am the only one with access to the lowest level of the building and can drain the system of another few hundred liters in addition to two giant water heaters in the basement. Worst case scenario I could drain the radiator system but bleck. It would have to be zombie apocalypse outside to resort to that. I have an MSR Guardian water filter and an activated charcoal canister as well as dozens of Pur and Britta gravity filter elements in my store. I've got a GoalZero solar panel to charge the phone and a closet full of smoke alarm batteries for the radio.

It will be interesting to see if the N95 masks become currency. I like this DIY version which I think would be next level protection with the face mask.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvlryShN69A

[ertyu]

I am on a chat with various expats from various places, and what I hear really worries me. In general, governments do not appear to have sufficient prevention measures. A number of developing countries do not have ability to test for it yet. Someone I know who is now in eastern europe said an acquaintance of his returned from an extended business trip from China and was interested in taking quarantine measures. Everyone was basically, "meh, go home and call us if you get a 39 degree fever or we need to intubate you." The colleague's colleagues who were also on the trip are not taking any precautions at all and living their lives as normal including meeting friends and going out. The mood is, "Meh, nothing's wrong with me, I'm fine" and "well it only kills old people anyway" meaning that they personally won't have to worry about undergoing anything beyond a severe flu so why does it matter. Then there's the overt sociopaths you hear about in the news who cover up symptoms and go, in one case, clubbing, and in the other case, to a fancy french restaurant for a meal. So basically, we have a combination of zero precautions and very thin levels of preparation. The only thing I can say is, thank god this isn't more contagious. Dumb luck is the only thing that will save us. This is becoming a pandemic. My eastern european acquantance, rather morbidly, says, "at least it'll help with the population pyramid"...

Another friend is in Japan. Also limited ability to test in provinces, but they are getting to it eventually. The message the government is giving is, "if you went to China or had contact with someone you knew was ill, report if you get symptoms" -- which completely ignores THE FUCKING 14 DAY INCUBATION PERIOD DURING WHICH A PERSON IS STILL CONTAGIOUS. Japan being a first world country, this is also quite worrysome.

It seems to me that authorities have concluded that said 14-day asymptomatic contagion window isn't something they can do anything about anyway, so they've given up. You can't ask people to stop their lives and self-quarantine, and even if you did, it's doubtful how successful this would be. In addition, even if they wanted to do something about it, to actually test for the virus, you need discharge - so symptoms must have manifested. You can't test an asymptomatic person.

edited to add: yup, just read an analysis that argued the virus is impossible to contain. This does seem to be the conclusion authorities have reached as well.

[ertyu]

(*) Initially, I took that to mean that the woman was scared out of her mind and being either really irrational (she'd bought hundreds of masks) or simply selfish... but then I saw an article that mentioned some people in the US were buying masks specifically to ship to friends or relatives in China that need them, so I've kinda come full circle back to neutral on that. After all, everything done to prevent spread within China helps to prevent spread to the US (and elsewhere) too.

In addition to shipping to friends and relatives, many such people resell these on taobao. So yes, you can argue that a local need is being met in more than one way.

One advantage to having an authoritarian country: the chinese gvt ordered mask producers to quit their holiday and crank it up.

[ertyu]

a related question for you guys:

someone I talked to was saying that one way to protect yourself from viral infections is nutritional ketosis. The idea is, viruses eat sugar, so let's just starve them. He backed this up with saying that one of the viral ourbreaks (I think MERS) was more likely to kill people who also had diabetes. Another argument was, your appetite is naturally lower when ill, so this proves that nutritional ketosis (and water fasting) is thus what one should be doing when having a viral infection or wanting to prevent one.

Here is my question: do you believe this, and if yes, do you think that fasting during the incubation period only lengthens it? Is it possible for a person to just not incubate all the way there and just not get ill? Or are you guaranteed to get ill sooner or later

Edit nvmd I just read about chronic asymptomatic carriers being a thing (e.g. Typhoid Mary), so that answers my second question. So, I guess, just the first one stands: does nutritional ketosis decrease chances of infection and improve prospects of recovery? How about the sub-case of water fasting while ill?

[tonyedgecombe]

The idea is, viruses eat sugar, so let's just starve them.

Viruses aren't living organisms, they don't eat anything.