RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

[AxelHeyst]

Oh, bigato: eh, if you’re in an emergency situation and your only option is the classic shit in a bag and toss it in the nearest trash can, then thats what you gotta do. But it’s not cool for that to be plan A, in my opinion. Particularly if you’re in one spot and are goi to be a regular contributor to one trash can.

Also, if that’s your plan A, don’t bother making the bed wide enough for two people.

[classical_Liberal]

Also, if that’s your plan A, don’t bother making the bed wide enough for two people.

I love this place

[AxelHeyst]

Sure, but I mean...

Ah, yeah. Some clarifications needed!

What I was referring to as “not cool” is throwing the contents of a ‘composting’ toilet in a dumpster or trash can, plastic bag or not.

Any van size composting toilet does zero composting: it’s just a collection bucket. The fill (peat moss, sawdust, dirt+shredded paper, etc) is purely to keep doors sealed off. There are still raw turds in there, even a month in. Most people / municipalities are going to take exception to anyone tossing garbage bags full of turds in their collection bin.

Composting is only going to happen in a humanure composting bin, over a period of time.

If you dump the contents of a composting toilet in a well dug cat hole out in the forest, where not a lot of other people do the same thing, it’ll get eaten up by worms and turn in to nice dirt after a few years. No problem.

Adding lime to a composting toilet, I’m pretty sure that will kill most of the good bacteria that do composting, but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t fully sanitize the turds. So you have a less smelly, but still unsanitary, pile of turds, that won’t compost well. Bad for a compost pile, forest cat hole, or trash can. Also, you don’t need lime or any other agent to control smell. Just add more sawdust/peat moss/ whatever.

Regarding time - sure, 20 days for a bucket for <100% use is reasonable. If it’s just me, and I’m at 100% use, I’ll fill a bucket in ~7-10 days, for reference. Depends on adding kitchen scraps, etc.

and if I’m not in a place where I feel good about disposing of it, I’ll just add a cap of extra material, put the lid on nice and tight, and store it until I get to a better spot to dispose. I’ve stored buckets for up to four months, no problem.

*all this is my experience with bucket style composting toilets. You can buy barrel style composting toilets that claim to actually do the composting in the toilet. These are more rare for vans because they are larger, have moving parts, etc. I’m somewhat suspicious of the quality of compost, but I don’t have hands on experience with this style toilet.

[theanimal]

Regarding pooping in a bag...it should be noted that people throw diapers out in the trash as well as dog poop. If your town has a common area/dump where you can bring trash (known as a transfer site in some places) perhaps that could be an option. I don't see any issue with throwing out poop in a heavy compactor bag. But then again I am not completely civilized.

[RoamingFrancis]

In response to everything above:

I think getting something roadworthy is my best option, even I have to pay insurance and all that. It'll give me some more freedom in being able to move somewhere else as a Plan B. Though getting something towed is an idea I'll keep in my back pocket should it be useful in the future; thanks for the input!

I cross a commercial area on my way to school with groceries. From what I remember there's an Aldi and a bunch of tiny immigrant-owned import stores. Also some farmer's markets not far, but I'm not sure how pricey that is. Learning to cook Cambodian food might be my best option to keep my costs low . I don't eat any meat, and I avoid dairy and eggs, so food should be fairly inexpensive. If I buy some rice, beans, and chickpeas in bulk then I can buy fresh fruit/veggies as needed. I'm a mediocre cook; hopefully I'll get better by cooking all of my own meals. Food is actually a factor in my wanting to move out - when I'm at home, I tend to eat more crap because my family eats crap. When I've been out on my own, it's a lot easier to make sure only healthy food comes into my life. The church also has a fridge I could probably use while I'm there. And there's a garden I could expand there too.

For poop, I'm planning on making the church toilet my Plan A. As such, I'll make the bed big enough for two people!!

@AxelHeyst do you recommend insulating the cavities too? Or just putting up rugs and curtains and stuff?

I also really like @C40's build. Are you out there anywhere C40?

Okay, so short checklist for what I need:

Van
Insulation
Bed (storage underneath)
Desk (also storage underneath)
Stove
Pot
Pan
Jug
Bucket

I think that's it - am I missing anything?

[AxelHeyst]

The rugs and curtains are *instead of* doing cavity insulation, which would be much more involved. It’s possible the rugs/etc would perform better, because no thermal bridging. But they’re way less Instagram-worthy than cavity insulation + shiplap.

Just an idea for the cheapest fastest approach to insulation I can think of. Pros and cons to everything.

[mooretrees]

While I love the idea of a van build (we're doing something similar), I wonder if you've dismissed an easy (potentially) way out of your parents house-living with other people? You seem to be connecting with a broad community since you mention permaculture folks and ministers. Have you asked around with those groups for alternative and cheap housing? I think living with other people can be fun, frustrating and educational. I have lived with other people for years, and rent can be so cheap when you split it six ways. I think I remember you mentioning how expensive your towns rental market is, but if you ask around or get the word out that you're looking for a cheap place, there's a lot out there that isn't on craigslist. Just a thought that if you're really ready to get out of your parents house, this would be a lot faster than doing a van build. Great way to meet people too.

[sky]

You will need a sleeping bag rated for the coldest temperature you expect to experience.

You will need a small washbasin or bowl to wash dishes and yourself.

You will need paper towels and a washcloth for your personal cleaning.

You will need rainguards on the windows and a vent with fan on the roof.

You will need a pee bottle.

You will need a floor towel to catch drips when you wash yourself.

You will need blackout curtains behind front seats and on all side and rear windows.

You will need a bowl to spit in when you brush your teeth.

You will need booties or slippers to keep your feet warm.

[RoamingFrancis]

@mooretrees I have asked around about cohousing arrangements but haven't found anything. I'm open to that if I can find one, but knowing my area I'm doubtful I'll find anything.

To be clear, living with my parents isn't hell; it's just suboptimal. I'm planning to take my time with the transition, so if I hear of a good opportunity somewhere, I'll jump on it. For the time being though, I'll keep planning the van.

[RoamingFrancis]

Burnout

Buckle up kids, it's time for a long post. This post contains an analysis of some of the mental models I have been using as a guiding philosophy at this stage of my ERE journey. Tomorrow I will be picking up David Epstein's Range from my local library; originially, I had wanted to wait to post this until I had a chance to read and analyze this book. However, I have time and energy now, so fuck it, I'll read Epstein's book later.

As this post will discuss some of my recent challenges, I would like to state my gratitude for all the good things in my life. I have the opportunity to pursue higher education, good relationships with my family and friends, good physical and mental health, and a safe environment to live, work, and study. Despite my challenges, I am thankful for all of these.

For those unfamiliar, I am 20 years old and am taking prerequisites for a nursing degree at a community college. For about a year and a half after high school, I worked, traveled, and had all sorts of bizarre experiences and adventures. My last trip was cut short and I ended earlier than I had anticipated. Right as the trip ended, I read Cal Newport's So Good They Can't Ignore You, thought "Fuck it, the field that I go into doesn't actually matter," and basically randomly picked nursing out of the college course catalog. I didn't have much intrinsic interest in nursing, but I had to make a quick decision to sign up for classes, so I went with it. It seemed like it would be an interesting adventure.

Fast forward 6 months, and I already feel like I'm burning out. The other day I did a meditation in which I reflected intensely on my inevitable death. This may sound bizarre, but I could feel my body rebelling against all the schoolwork I've been doing. It felt as if I were vomiting the somatic sensations associated with continuing with my degree. Unfortunately, it is hard to decouple my experiences with the degree from COVID-19 and lockdown. I made a list of reasons I have been dissatisfied with school; some of them are directly linked to coronavirus, others less so.

Here's the list:

1) My decision about my field of study was a quick, almost desperate decision. A sort of "Fuck, what do I do now?" sort of decision.
2) Online school SUCKS ASS!!!
3) I haven't really connected with any professors in the field. I've resonated with a chem and psych prof but none otherwise. This could partially be a function of online school / COVID.
4) Due to COVID and the commuter nature of a community college, it has been difficult to establish meaningful relationships with other students.
5) Online school has not been great for my grades. Grades in the prerequisite classes are counted as part of the score on the nursing entrance exam, so they actually do matter here. They're not terrible, still mostly As in fact. But I did get a B in stats and will likely finish my current online class in the low B / high C zone. Worst case scenario would be I take all the prereqs and still don't get into the program. I'll have to get more info on the specifics of the exam.
6) I still have a lot of school left. I'm lucky to have a lot of AP credit from high school, but I was really into foreign language and history at the time, not bio. If I keep going with the nursing it'll likely be another four years before I am done. If I got a degree in foreign language or history or something I could likely graduate much sooner. The problem here is that this route would be more expensive. And to be honest, I can easily get the equivalent of a history or foreign language degree with access to the Internet and a public library. I think it's foolish to pay someone for that.
7) In general, I feel that my courses are not promoting critical thinking beyond a narrow scope of ideas. Sometimes I feel the need to go out of my way to read, write, and learn on my own to make sure my schoolwork doesn't dumb me down...
8) I question how relevant nursing skills are to addressing problems beyond individual patients. Things like oppression, climate change, etc. Che Guevara was a doctor, but he stopped being a doctor to become Che Guevara I suppose public health or preventative care could be an area of focus though...
9) I worry how much of nursing will be actually helping people vs sucking money out of them for insurance companies.
10) Sometimes when I mention I'm going into nursing, I get glances saying "Why are you going into a field for women?" This alone isn't enough reason to change a major, but as long as I'm complaining, I'll include it.

Those are my grievances. Feels good to get that all written down. Oddly, writing it makes me feel a soft spot for all the parts of the program that I liked. To school's credit, it does provide me with a structure and discipline that is hard for me to find otherwise.

Analysis of So Good They Can't Ignore You - Part 1
This part is mostly musing on meditation; it doesn't have much to do directly with ERE. Skip if uninterested.

I have come to recognize that this stage of my ERE journey is mainly focused on establishing a career and an efficient income stream. Occasionally I reread this to refine my mental models in regards to my strategy. I reread parts and believe I have some new insights to share. I had originally wanted to combine this section with an analysis of Range, I'll have to wait until I get the book tomorrow.

The first part of my analysis deals with the book's introduction. It tells a story of a young man named Thomas, a young man who studied comparative religion, decided that practicing Zen Buddhism is the key to happiness, becomes a Zen monk, and hates it and quits. Newport uses Thomas' example to illustrate the main point of his book - that the "follow your passion" approach to job satisfaction is bullshit advice. Thomas' passion was Zen, but when he finally became a monk, he hated it.

I will deal with the passion hypothesis in the second part of the analysis; for now, I'd like to focus on the case study of Thomas. It is important to understand this case study on a deeper level, as I believe that meditation practice is genuinely one of the most effective tools we have to increase human happiness. During my travels before entering school, I sat a 10 day Vipassana meditation retreat, and spent some large amounts of time hanging out and volunteering at Vipassana centers. It was one of the most valuable experiences I've ever had, and I still maintain my practice because it has a noticeable positive effect on my well-being.

So if meditation is so wonderful, what the hell happened with Thomas? Newport says Thomas burned out after having an experience of egolessness while walking in the woods. Soon after he became disillusioned with Zen monk life. Newport says, "This is what life as a Zen monk offered: increasingly sophisticated musings on this one, core insight." This seems to indicate some sort of lack of intellectual stimulation. Perhaps there was a sense of dogmatism at the center? A lack of real freedom of thought? Newport also indicates that the practice was not truly transformative. Thomas says, "I was exactly the same person, with the same worries and anxieties." It seems Thomas was frustrated because his practice did not deliver altered traits - just altered states. This makes me wonder if Thomas had been practicing meditation at all before his arrival at the monastery. In my opinion the whole point of meditation is to develop altered traits, but this usually takes effort and patience.

Another possibility is that Thomas' burnout was due to him experiencing some of the phases in the classical Theravada Progress of Insight map. Some of the older Buddhist texts describe various phases of meditative experience - it is fairly common to experience something like egolessness or cessation, followed by the Dukkha Ñanas - deepening experiences of suffering, sometimes called the "Dark Night of the Soul." It sounds like this could be another explanation for Thomas' breakdown.

The exact reasons for Thomas' breakdown are unknown. Newport uses the case to argue against the passion hypothesis, however there could be more going on here. The Dark Night explanation seems very likely to me, and Newport hints that there were other problems at the center. Communities based on meditation and spirituality are certainly not free from bullshit

The takeaway from this introduction for me is that although meditation practice is powerful, it does not automatically guarantee a good life. Furthermore, fantasies of the grass being greener somewhere else are usually inaccurate.

Analysis of So Good They Can't Ignore You - Part 2

Using Thomas as a case study, Newport then describes two alternating paths to fulfilling work - the passion hypothesis and the career capital hypothesis. The passion hypothesis says that the key to occupational happiness is to first figure out what you're passionate about, and then find a job that matches this passion. The career capital hypothesis says that you accumulate career capital (Newport defines this as rare and valuable skills, but I would include other capital such as FU money) and cash it in for traits that make work more fulfilling. Newport then spends the rest of the book arguing against the passion hypothesis and in favor of the career capital hypothesis. Newport generally argues that the specific field you're in doesn't matter - as long as you have autonomy, competence, and connection to others, you're good to go.

As a whole, I think the career capital hypothesis is much better. However, I do question to what extent internal proclivities play a role in a fulfilling work life. David Epstein talks about match quality - I haven't read his book yet, but from interviews I gather it to mean the extent to which your personality is suited for a particular career. Theoretically an introvert could develop excellent skills in sales, but there might still be friction if they were forced to talk to strangers all day. I'd like to see if I can develop a more accurate mental model of a path to fulfilling work by taking match quality into account and amending the career capital hypothesis. You all will hear more from me when I've read the book.

Potential Next Steps

I'm still taking classes over the summer, and plan to at least get a CNA or EMT certification if I decide not to go the nursing route. I realized I need to learn a lot more about the field - I picked nursing on a whim, and don't really understand the profession. I'll have to reevaluate if I actually want to keep going down this road, or if I should change now.

If I decide not to continue with nursing, there are a couple leads that I could work on. I've started teaching one-on-one Spanish classes, and have been getting more requests to teach both English and Spanish. That is one income stream I can develop further. If I have the EMT or CNA, I could work part-time and spend a semester taking classes purely based on whatever interests me XD That would be great, but I have to take long-term strategy and goals into account too.

My immediate next steps are to study for my final tomorrow and try to get my GTD system back up and working. There seems to be a process of internalization necessary for it to work well - I have to continually come back to it. Like meditation practice Additionally, I will continue to pay attention to my feelings. It could be that my current burnout just lasts a couple of days and then I'm excited about nursing again - we will see.

ERE Strategizing

It seems to me that my main task in ERE right now is to establish an efficient income stream. My main opportunities here are to continue with school, or by further developing my language classes. Likely both at the same time.

@jacob Earlier you mentioned that things like permaculture gardens and tiny houses are heterotelic to the nursing pathway. Could you elaborate on what you mean by this? Isn't one of the main points of ERE to develop diverse skills and aspire to the Renaissance ideal? Why do you mention a Buy Nothing Year as homeotelic, while saying that a permaculture garden is heterotelic?

Van Updates

Living at home has been pretty good recently. It'd be nice to move out, but I'm in no rush. I'll continue browsing Craigslist and waiting for the right moment to strike.

Miscellaneous

Stripping would be a fun part-time job to get through college

The area where I live seems to be designed entirely for ages 0-18 and 30+. I have some local connections, so I've been meaning to see if I can develop some sort of space for college kids to hang out.

Damn, that was a lot of writing. Hope you all get something positive out of it, peace!

[jacob]

@jacob Earlier you mentioned that things like permaculture gardens and tiny houses are heterotelic to the nursing pathway. Could you elaborate on what you mean by this? Isn't one of the main points of ERE to develop diverse skills and aspire to the Renaissance ideal? Why do you mention a Buy Nothing Year as homeotelic, while saying that a permaculture garden is heterotelic?

If/when you graduate as a nurse, your first job will likely be (far) away from whatever garden you're currently working on lest you significantly shoot yourself in the foot career-wise and insist on only looking at local jobs. This does not exclude working on other people's gardens or gaining a modicum of experience on a community plot. However, with gardening, you mostly have to learn the local quirks like what grows best in your area on your soil with your heat, sun, and rain exposure. There's more to it than just throwing some seeds in the ground.

A tiny house has the same problem wrt relocation although not to the same degree. You might find it problematic to park it, but then again this might not be a problem. For your first and any job I'd suggest finding something that makes your commute easy. A tiny house is still a big anchor if you don't want to drag it around. It's also harder to sell than an RV and thus could represent a lot of sunk cost if it turns out to be incompatible with a series of short (1-2 year jobs) around the country.

Buy-nothing-year is homeotelic because you'll get used to being free from stuff and this will make it much much easier to move around. It will also get you permanently out of the "solving my problems by paying money at the store"-mindset that most people grow up with and/or default to. In particular, it will be much easier to deal with it sooner rather than later, that is, before you fall into the "I work hard so I deserve it"- or the "I make more per hour working than I do saving if I have to learn"-traps that often gets late-starters stuck at Wheaton 4 and 5.

In short, early in your career, I recommend as few material and geographic commitments as possible. I might of course just be talking my book here.

[classical_Liberal]

that is, before you fall into the "I work hard so I deserve it"- or the "I make more per hour working than I do saving if I have to learn"-traps that often gets late-starters stuck at Wheaton 4 and 5.

This is great advice, particularly for a new nurse. Once you get into major program they will flat out tell you, that first year after school is gonna be tough. They're right, it's exhausting on many levels. Plus, unlike some other jobs there really isn't a huge pay scale progression. You'll be making money that seems ridiculous for a 20ish year old right off the bat if you go into hospital nursing. This combination will set you up psychologically to fall into those two traps very, very easily. Frankly, I'm still in the second one to a large degree. Heed the dear leaders warning!

[RoamingFrancis]

Thanks for the advice to both of you. I am still feeling very burned out, and am considering switching to a different program. However, I don't want to make a decision based purely on impulse.

@jacob I've recently felt like I'm trying to force myself into a salaryman mindset in order to do well in school and work, then coming back to ERE to try to undo that. Do you have any more advice for getting to higher Wheaton thinking patterns while still in school?

[RoamingFrancis]

Here are some short updates; I'll post some more details later.

I've decided to switch programs, probably to something like education. Just by doing this I'm shaving a good two years off my graduation time - I have basically a fuckton of AP credit that doesn't transfer to specific technical courses like I would need in nursing, but does transfer to more generalist degrees. I still really want to keep learning technical "Renaissance skills," but might be aiming to be a teacher in the meantime.

I've been really missing Latin America and playing piano. Might save up some money, finish my associate's degree, then take my first "mini-retirement" to play music, work on ERE skills, go back to Latin America and learn an indigenous Amazonian language, etc.

[RoamingFrancis]

All right, so about a week ago I completely burned out from sitting on my computer taking online classes. I dropped my second A+P class based on a gut feeling. I really don't know if this was a good decision; only time will tell. I'll be working a job at a hardware store for the rest of the summer, and figuring out what to do next.

What to do next is the big question.

Part of why I burned out is because there's just so much time left before I'd be able to finish a nursing degree. I already have about half of a BA degree done because of AP credit, but none of this counts towards nursing because of the specific technical aspects of the field. If I went for a degree in education I'd be shaving two years off just like that.

Another idea I have had is to save like crazy at this hardware store job, then take a Tim Ferriss-esque "mini-retirement" during which time I could work on a small business or learn a DIY skill. This would be essentially going into Semi-ERE at a young age and allow me to figure out full ERE as I get older. This appeals to me more than working for The Man for x years then going full FI. If I go this route, I'd just have to be careful to set up good accountability systems. If my goal is to really get work done, I do best if I have some sort of external structure to keep me motivated.

In my last post I mentioned learning and indigenous Amazonian language. I'm not joking about this. As a longtime language nerd, I've realized that I already have a lot of the skills necessary to do something useful for preserving endangered languages and cultures. I've been emailing various anthropology professors to see if there are volunteer positions doing this sort of thing.

In a perfect world, my dream would be to go for a PhD in anthropology, but given the realities of student debt and climate change I think I'd be better off going for ERE and learning as much as I can on my own. I have learned a new piano song as well

Thanks for reading everyone; I'm eager to hear your thoughts.

[mooretrees]

I've been thinking about your dilemma. I have two bachelor's degrees, first one in English/History because I didn't know that getting a job might require something more practical and I loved both of those subjects. Since I also didn't want a Masters degree, I just found odd jobs for the next decade and a half. I never pursued anything with that first degree, but that wasn't the fault of the degree, I just had no idea what to do with them. I now have a second bachelor's degree in Clinical Laboratory Science. This degree is like a nursing degree, only useful to get a job in a very specific field. I like the job (sometimes) and I make a lot of money, but I'm looking for my escape hatch from full time work. My story is to give you some perspective on why I'm going to recommend a few different courses of action for you.

A few important questions: who is paying for your education? This would make all the difference for me. If I was paying for it, I would consider going the super slow route of cash flowing school. It will take time, but going into debt for education also has its obvious downsides. If someone else is paying for your education, are they okay with you changing majors? They might have an opinion on your education.

You're obviously smart and a learner already, so do you really need a degree? If you need a degree, what do you need it for? A job? Personal learning? There is a level of intellectual rigorousness that some degrees will offer, but I'm not sure college is what it used to be. I know that it is attractive to think that going to college means you're surrounded by smart like-minded people who want to talk about anthropology and what not, but most people are there to get the degree and get a job. And they will only be focused on finishing assignments/grades etc.

1. Drop out entirely. Go hobo, live in the Amazon and learn that language, play piano and fall in love. Learn to live on very little and live well. Maybe consider finishing up an associate's degree so those college and AP courses could count for something down the line if you change your mind.

2. Go to a trade school. Read Cheepnis's journal for what a smart, liberal person who doesn't mind working hard experiences as a journeyman plumber. Trade schools aren't really pushed these days, but learning how to machine or fix a car and so on is good knowledge. I think you're smart enough to discount trade schools, but they should be on the table. Nursing is a trade, it just takes a lot of money and time to get the training.

I think you'll find plenty of examples of people on this forum who are very smart, who pursued a PhD and have little to no practical skills. Now they're interested in retiring and are actively learning how to do things with their hands. Why not be the guy who learns a bunch of different trades right off the bat, reads and studies on his own time and isn't stuck in one job, one specialty yearning to quit?

Since you mentioned setting out on your own in your last post, why not flesh that idea out more?

I would not recommend continuing to pursue something unless you have a better vision of why you are in school. Going full time school into full time career is tough. Doable, but tough. Anyway, this advice is what I'd give my son if he were older. I would push a trade school hard on him because I see the value of learning some hands on skills in my daily life living with my DH. Also, I think it is valuable to be able to interact with all sorts of people and learn to judge people on who they are and not their job. I've worked a lot of blue collar jobs and while they can be really hard (dragging heavy rounds of wood down a steep, ivy covered path is sweaty work!), they can be fun and more satisfying than typing up procedures in an air conditioned lab.

Just my $0.2.

[mathiverse]

Are you considering getting the degree that will take you the least amount of time to get? Why are you focused on nursing rather than finishing any degree that will get you past job filters? Alternatively, maybe nursing isn't a good fit, but if you are set on getting a job specific degree, then have you explored if there are other options that might fit you better?

A education/English/linguistics/anthropology/Spanish/Japanese/blah degree isn't a show stopper for a myriad of positions and a myriad of white collar positions require no true expertise out of undergrad. You seem pretty likeable, so you could probably talk your way into some soft skills focused white collar role if you wanted. Whether or not that's a path you want to take is a different question, but I wanted to point out it's a possibility for you even if nursing didn't work out.

Maybe consider finishing up an associate's degree so those college and AP courses could count for something down the line if you change your mind.

I don't think expiring AP credits or coursework need to be a consideration. I went back to undergrad nearly ten years after I graduated high school and the AP credits and coursework from my short time in uni after high school remained useful for the BA I went back for.

[classical_Liberal]

I think @mooretrees gives very good advice.

Nursing isn't for everyone and requires a greater upfront commitment just for the undergrad than most people realize. Maybe 3-4X that of a liberal arts degree. You certainly wouldn't be the first person to change tracks once that begins to flesh out in the day-to-day life of a nursing student. So, don't feel bad, follow your own gut.

Just to add to what mooretrees said. Don't get a degree just to get a degree, you're too smart for that. An undergrad anthropology degree isn't going to get you jobs. At least, probably nothing you couldn't get anyway. That path is one of academia and a PhD. If you want a degree for the experience of going to college, there's nothing wrong with that, but get something a bit more useful. Like maybe business, or some science/math undergrad. Even then it's iffy. My GF has a Bachelors in Biology and ended up going back to a trade school to get a decent paying job as a surgical tech.

No matter what you decide. Remember, you need both a long term vision/goal AND to enjoy the day-to-day of anything that you do. One without the other is going to create internal conflict. In particular for you, I think if you do not enjoy the day-to-day of what you are doing, you will find it hard to finish anything. Persistence is probably going to be the path of success for you. So make sure that whatever you bite off is something you can chew and digest.

[RoamingFrancis]

Me Processing Shit

Thanks to everyone for the kind and detailed responses. I'll try to respond to all points raised.

Let me give some background about how I got into nursing in the first place. Immediately after high school, my only ambition was to travel and hitchhike around the world. I did this for a while and was planning to go to Palestine and volunteer in a refugee camp. A couple days before my flight to Tel Aviv, I received a call from my family begging me not to go, or at least to wait until I'm older and go with a travel partner. I gave in, and decided to fly back to the States. Since my travels were suddenly cut short, I had to quickly slap together a plan. I read So Good They Can't Ignore You, chose nursing at random out of the community college catalog, and resolved to just work my ass off all year.

Then COVID started, I realized that nursing had a much higher barrier to entry than I had originally anticipated, and now I'm reconsidering my original plan. The good news is that during this time period I took a much of challenging math and science classes and really pushed my intellectual limits. As someone that identified primarily as a foreign language/history/music kid in high school, I have proven to myself that I can learn things that don't come naturally to me.

I am paying for my own education, with the help of scholarships. @mooretrees By cash flowing school, do you mean to just pay for school as the money comes in? Instead of borrowing money to go full time over a shorter period of time?

And yes, the main reason I'm going for a full degree is for a job. Of course I have a deep love of learning new things, but the only reason I'm enrolled in a specific program is for employment. Otherwise I would just hang around the campus and audit classes based on personal interest (which I am considering XD). There are other reasons for still hanging out in a college environment, mainly social, but as far as I'm concerned a degree is just a piece of paper that says I can do a job. One of the really good things that has come out of school so far has been staying in touch with professors. I now have a small network of psychologists, chemists, etc that I can pepper with questions that I'm curious about.

I have a deep respect for the trades; I definitely don't think I'm "too smart" or somehow above them. Actually I have given the trades a lot of thought. I went with nursing instead of the trades because I already had my foot in the door at the community college where nursing was offered.

Also a retired carpenter friend of mine made the local union seem rather unattractive. Specifically, he said that in the long run the union's great because of high wages, pensions, and benefits. But while you're in it's like the military - they own your soul, very little autonomy, etc. Though now I have a better understanding of Cal Newport's ideas, ERE, FU money, and generally how power tends to function in the workplace. Now that I know more, I may be able to use that to my advantage.

Trade school is definitely still on the table. Especially since getting into ERE, I've been working with my hands more and I love it.

As for dropping out of the system entirely, that sounds attractive but I am not yet skilled enough to be able to do that sustainably. My first "full hobo" attempt right out of high school ended abruptly because I threw myself into it too fast. I need to build more skills and have some capacity to make money before considering going off the grid or anything.

Lastly, I could probably bullshit my way into some white collar position, but I would rather fall off a cliff into a piranha-infested lava ocean. My vision of hell is to wear a suit and to work in an air-conditioned corporate office building. I have been a hobo before, and would genuinely prefer to live on the streets than work in a place like that.

Sort of Conclusion

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I'm going to look back into trade schools in the area. I also will be starting work at a hardware store soon, so there might be some opportunities to start learning there. Though I think most positions are more focused on sales/retail.

C_L makes a great point about persistence being my path to success. As someone that's deeply curious about just about everything, I sometimes spread myself too thin. For me to reach ERE and aspire towards the Renaissance ideal, I'll have to do it by focusing deeply on one thing at a time.

Miscellaneous

I've begun practicing piano again. When I was a kid I could play pretty well, but all I learned was how to read sheet music and play songs by muscle memory. I never got a deeper understanding of how music actually functions. This time around I'm DIYing it and learning by ear. If anyone has advice in this domain please let me know.

In a perfect world I'd get a degree in anthropology, but I'm going to do a DIY degree instead by learning an endangered indigenous language of the Amazon or Andes. I figure this will give me the equivalent of a bachelor's in anthropology, but without any of the college bullshit. I have friends who have friends in Peru; I'm working on getting in touch.

[classical_Liberal]

@RF
One point I'd like to make, since you're busy ripping on us geezers in the other thread (J/K).

You mostly have your s**t together. I mean, you don't have any chemical addictions, seem pretty self aware, smart dude in general. You're only going to be young once. At 40, you can't experiment in as many ways and still have it be socially acceptable. I guess my point is, if you wanna try to be a hobo and wander around volunteering at places for 3 hots and a cot, or go to immerse in a H/G tribe, now is the time to do it! If it's something you're really drawn to, it'll eat at you anyway.

I'm not advocating you throw your future away. On the contrary, despite all the talk in this forum about financial head starts and the like, some things are best experienced at certain ages. If you bum around for a few years and then decide to go to school or start a career, who cares if you're "behind". You got to live your life. I mean who knows, maybe you'll never want to quit. The only things I guarantee is that if you don't do it now it will only get harder. And no matter what you do, you will always wonder what it would have been like if you chose the "other" path.

Good luck!