3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Where are you and where are you going?
ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

@bostonimproper: serendipity--I was reading this book and found something similar.

“In one celebrated series of studies that began to appear in 1974, Lee Robins found that only 12 percent of heroin-addicted Vietnam veterans remained hooked three years after returning to the United States. When the stresses of duty in Southeast Asia ended, so did most of the heroin use—typically without professional intervention. ”

Excerpt From: Daniel Akst. “Temptation.” iBooks.

Let's hope that both you and Daniel Akst are right and that self-control and bullshit spending will become easier to control once the stress they medicate is reduced. It would be such a relief if you are right and quitting does indeed help. With jobs, I think, it's kind of inevitable: most workplaces are managed through fear. Being an employee means, essentially, submitting yourself to someone else's will in order to secure the resources to continue your existence. If you don't do A, if we catch you doing B, your employment is on the line. Your future employability is on the line (references, etcetera - this is complicated in the case of working internationally, in some countries to secure a visa for future employment, you need a letter explaining why you were let go + what your performance was like from your last employer). So, in addition to one's job being stressful, it's completely possible that spending 5 days a week at a place thoroughly seeped in the idea of "perform, or else" is fear-making in and of itself. Now that I think about it, Robert Kyosaki seems to think so, there was a passage in Rich Dad Poor Dad. I don't like the guy or his work for many reasons, but about this he appears to be spot on. His starting point in motivating the reader to buy his books, seminars, and whatever products, is "don't you want to stop being afraid?"

ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

@jacob: I identify as a nomad, too: see my chosen lifestyle. I also move away from situations, some would say too prematurely. I'm a country-hopper and a job-hopper. One of the things that holds me back from pulling the plug on employment is the realization that I am saving for developing country standard of living and thus the world would no longer be my oyster like i'm used to. The idea of living not in the same place, but in the same country, over a period of time, makes me feel trapped.

The things-as-security part for me works like so: if you're starting from scratch, it takes price of hot plate + price of pot + price of lentils to get a meal. If you already have a hotplate and a pot, getting a meal costs $lentils. Thus having a stash of belongings reduces the minimum monthly expenditure that guarantees continued survival.

And yup, there is a tension between this and nomadism just like there is a tension between the renaissance man ideal and nomadism (it is one of the reasons why I have postponed the development of my diy skills until after the nomadic expat part of my lifestyle winds down).

FS sees objects as a threat, too. Because he associates their accumulation with a period when he was depressed, but also, I thought very interestingly, because of the 2011 earthquake. He has an entire section on how belongings become projectiles that can actually, physically hurt you in an earthquake like this, and cites at least one other minimalist who became minimalist as a sort of ptsd reaction to the earthquake. He makes the argument that the earthquake was what ushered the entire minimalist/konmari phase in Japanese culture - I thought this was very interesting.

ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

The last 4 days went roughly like so:

Friday/Sat: long, morose rants about how horrible I'm feeling
Sun: some rational thought returns. Answers I wrote to other people sound almost sane.
Mon: shit day at work. Was hard to make it to the end.
Tue (today): feeling of being yoked, having a millstone round my neck and wanting to escape wasn't there. What was there: utter blankness and lack of care. I called in sick, exhausting the sick days I'd been saving and sacrificing a day of pay.

Conclusion: I might actually, legitimately not make it through two or three more years of this regardless of what is rational. Fuck self-respect: I might have to face the fact that others may be able to, it might be wimpy not to be able to, it might be more rational to be able to, but it might not matter. No one from my culture of origin would accept this as a legitimate excuse. We are very much a "get over yourself and quit whining, there's people who have it much worse than you" sorta people. Hell I am that sort of person. So it's hard to face that I might not be able to finish working as planned for "woo-woo" reasons (non-rational). Also, if I admit I have no control over whether I can work or not, this hits that thing where I start being afraid for my survival. Regardless of savings etc. some sort of work might be necessary in the future. The prospect that I might just not be able to work for no rational reason when I need to work is scary. Staring into the abyss, abyss staring back, etcetera.

There are 3 work days before we're off for 2019, and once we're back, 90 work days until Performance Cull. I might not be able to make 2 years, but I might be able to commit to 90 days. I have to accept that at the end of those 90 days, I might not have a job and I might not be able to have a job. (If I do get fired, I'm assuming things would be pretty dire. And the thing is, I know how this goes, in about 3 months' time I start feeling better and I start trying to find another job, only to end up in this state 3 months into said job. This has happened before. So I might make a rule, no working for a year, come hell or high water.)

Potential plan:

- disconnect bank account from phone so I cannot use online shopping apps, ride hailing apps, and food delivery apps. This will be a major pain in the butt. If I cannot rely on a ride hailing app I need to wake up early enough to get the company bus to work and not miss it (I can also walk to work but to walk to work I need to wake up at Bus Taking Time anyways.

- downgrade phone plan. This means download stuff at work (podcasts, books, etc.) for reading and listening at home, as I would not have data (no internet or cable at home right now).

- keep fridge off.

- unplug water heater and washing machine (I already turn on the water heater only when I shower). But that way, they won't draw electricity. Charge laptop, power bank, phone, at work. These have screens that glow.

- I am keeping the water heater, washing machine/laundry once a week, warm water shower. This is because it is winter and I Am A Wuss. Projected utility bill: 20 bucks.

- If I want to spend, I can only spend cash. Plastic and phone payment apps are the devil.

- Household in liquidation mode: burn tealights before using electric lamp at night, deplete pantry stores, use up + do not replace various products (a soap bar goes a long way, plus I have some spares from having bought in bulk). Stop doing that thing where I use product very sparingly so it can last longer. It doesn't need to last longer. (except laundry detergent). Use up vitamins, etc.

- Eat only catered meals at work (lunch). Consider fasting outside of these times. Potential snag: meals are unhealthy. Only the very occasional vegetable. Potential tail wind: certainly have enough reserves to last me through the occasional skipped meal. Other potential snag: have the self-discipline of a three-year-old faced with a marshmallow. Elephant in the room: caffeine. Use only work supply (disconnect various collect-stars and here-have-a-discount-coupon-if-you-order-electronically apps). Pro: reduction might help with anxiety. The internet says so. Con: I would feel vaguely ashamed that colleagues will realize I'm a cheapskate and thieving beans from the office to drink on the weekend. Maybe weekend coffee outside can be allowed. Or maybe I should stop being a wuss and aim to quit.

Basically the idea is, if I'll be fired or won't be able to keep working anyway, to squeeze out as much savings out of this as I can while I can.

Will I be able to do this? Sounds way more manageable than working three more years. Also, works with laziness not against it. Instead of making meals etc., going without.

Potential workarounds:

- naps after work/go to bed early to wake up on time for work bus.
- thermos with coffee or tea brewed at the office --> take to park or other green accessible area. Plonk self on ground if needed.
- public transportation to parks elsewhere in the city.
- ?

With this as the baseline plan, even with the occasional deviation, savings rate should go up by 600 - 800 bucks a month (bullshit expenses tend to be 100-150 per week). Well, 500-600 more realistic. However this is still worth it as 600 bucks are enough to live on for a month in Developing Country (basic living expenses in 45k population city. Includes coffee). I can probably count down the days on this journal. Posting a Day 90 - Doy 89 - Day 88 thing might help me keep the light at the end of the tunnel in sight.

mrbob
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:35 pm

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by mrbob »

What works for me is to have a fixed date for my early retirement (May 20th, 2022), and then stick to it. That way I can do an actual countdown, day by day.

What also works for me, is to have milestones for every 25 calendar days. So for example these are my current milestones:

900 days remaining - major milestone
875 days remaining - minor milestone
850 days remaining - medium milestone
825 days remaining - minor milestone
800 days remaining - major milestone
...

Thus for each 100 days passed it means major milestone.

Treat yourself with something good for each milestone completed. That way you always have something to look forward to, in a not to distant future :-)

mrbob
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:35 pm

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by mrbob »

Another way is to count back days.

Like, right now I have 884 days remaining before early retirement. If I subtract that from today's date, it takes me to July 16th, 2017.

I can easily remember what happened back then (or I can get some indicators from my mailbox looking at mails I sent and received back then). The point is, that it doesn't feel like it's that long time ago it was July 2017, so I just need to hold on for the same amount of time before I'm done with work.

Above works great for me - might work for you, too :-)

ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

mrbob wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:23 am
Another way is to count back days.

Like, right now I have 884 days remaining before early retirement. If I subtract that from today's date, it takes me to July 16th, 2017.

I can easily remember what happened back then (or I can get some indicators from my mailbox looking at mails I sent and received back then). The point is, that it doesn't feel like it's that long time ago it was July 2017, so I just need to hold on for the same amount of time before I'm done with work.

Above works great for me - might work for you, too :-)
mrbob i can already tell i like you as a person :lol: thanks for these suggestions man

ok so first milestone is this friday and that's a starbucks americano
and then 90 days ago was when i started this shit of a job :lol: in my case, it feels like it's been forever :lol: :lol:

man i suck at being employed :lol:

steveo73
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:52 pm

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by steveo73 »

Just posting to state I read a bunch of these posts. I like your story and problems you are going through. I can relate to a lot of it albeit our situations are different. I also feel somewhat trapped until I reach FI.

classical_Liberal
Posts: 2283
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by classical_Liberal »

ertyu wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:40 am
This is a couple of times now that in one way or another, supervisor has revealed themselves as someone who doesn't care about the quality of work but about the appearance of work, which is maddening to me. My values are quite different.
I love this. Its 50% of why work sucks. Too many organizations are set up to create inferior work performance, basically being set up to fail if you want to do good work. It's like public school all over again, trying to deal with the lowest common denominator. I hate it! The vast majority of the remaining suckatude has to do with lack of flexibility in tasks and schedule, IMO.

I read your journal and feel so much sadness for your obvious desperation. I "grok" everything you write. Even the idea that "others have it worse", so just do what you have to do attitude. Still, at some point there is a level of absolute misery that can not be continued when other options are available. I really think you either need to somehow completely change your attitude, or just quit. Wrt to attitude, cognitive behavioral therapy is an option. It helps control these negative emotions and reactions. Still, emotions are what they are and need to be acknowledged. In "just quit", what I mean is create an alternative plan to your goals. It was obvious to me in your other thread that your mind is not in a place to try to think constructively about alternative plans. So "just quit" is simply a way for you to get out of this negative spiral, shock your system, and begin to think differently about your situation. I have no specific advice, because your overall situation is so vague, but I do know someone smart enough to find their way here is smart enough to find options that doesn't result in misery.

Anyway, I do think the idea of a countdown is helpful. Breaking things into chunks is VERY effective. So effective, in fact, that it can allow for untold levels of misery. I've done it myself before. I used to think, I have to work 13 hour shifts for 6 of the next 8 days. I can do that, I can live life after. So use this tool as needed, but be wary of its power.

We have this amazing gift of life and consciousness. We live in a time of petroleum, where basic needs are so easily met, a few hours a week of concerted effort is all that's really needed to provide for ourselves. The knowledge of all human kind is only a click away. Social networks of like-minded minority groups (like ERE folks) exist across the world, so no one needs to feel alone. Yet, with all these amazing advantages, we can still manage to find ways to make ourselves miserable. The reason I decided to do away with my personal unhappy circumstance, short of FI level funds by quite a bit, was because I decided wasting my limited time in this amazing world by counting down days until I could live happily was foolish. I was literally wishing away large chunks of my life! I hope, eventually, you come to this same conclusion and change things up a bit.

ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

Having learned my lesson from last week, I waited until the weekend has started good and proper to write. Am now at Starbucks, celebrating the successful completion of last week with a sandwich and a coffee off the accumulated points in my app. Deleted that app and various others while sipping: the resistance was real. Loks like a part of me can sound very confident he wants to delete the various coffee ordering and food delivery money sucks, but the thumb-over-the-little-cross moment hesitation and desire to cling was real (even though the process is reversible by reinstalling the app).

But a bunch of my household-drawdown process is finishing up the tea in the cupboard, of which there is a lot (and theving teabags from the office thereafter). So, here I sit, reaffirming my commitment to frugality, a poster exhorting me to "indulge in joy" via Christmas Mini Puffs + Mariah Carey telling me all she wants for Christmas is me. Observation: what I'm doing here really doesn't make sense. I am turning off my fridge and plan to steal tea bags and toilet paper from the office, all while my lizard brain just joyfully went, "Yeah, dude, there's these wonderful sweet juicy oranges in that store next to the Starbucks, kinda expensive but delicious, surely we can do that at least once ... and oh look! Dove has come out with a new chocolate bar, mint-vanilla-hazelnut, looks awesome we should try that --- yummm, tastes awesome, too! --- might pick up a bottle of this here sparkling water while I'm at it... yes, maam, i'd like a chicken ciabatta and an americano thank you..."

I'm making the changes I can make, but those aren't at all the changes that would actually result in the greatest benefit when it comes to savings. Let's say I'll spend 15-20 bucks on today's bullshit outing. Well, that's a large pack of toilet paper and 3 boxes of tea. And I know this rationally. Yet I'm a well-programmed monkey. Evolution's done a wonderful job with,"oh, {i]that's[/i] where the sweet oranges are, we're spontaneously driven to go there and get some!" while paying 0 thought at the token exchange that needs to occur. No token exchanges needed when you swing through the branches and, "whoa, oranges!!" Thank fuck I'm not hooked on anything more serious. Respect to anyone who's managed to kick an actual serious addiction - though the more I think, the more I'm persuaded sugar is an addiction like that. Sugar rots your teeth, meth rots your teeth, whether you're "hangry" because your blood sugar is down or because you're slamming cupboards as you're coming down... sugar has a tranquilizer effect. Also, it's long-term effects on health are serious and real. A life lived under a steady dove bar consumption ends in Alzheimers and other degenerative disease. I know that, too. "Does the thing in spite of claiming not to want to and in spite of adverse consequences on life" is basically the textbook definition.

Another observation: I need short-term goals. "I aim to reach FI in 3 yrs" - nope. Might as well be forever, must prepare for interminable suffering, happiness is impossible anyway we might as well wait for death and console ourselves with pizza. But "must be as ready as possible in 90 work days, before the performance cull" has a different feel altogether. Suddenly, I'm unplugging fridges and devising teabag-foraging strategies. Also, it wouldn't have worked for me to just self-impose a deadline. That wouldn't have been credible. But "there is a realistic chance that you will be fired" is credible because it does not depend on me.

Unconsciously, this seems to also be a reason why I cling so hard to the job from hell. I seem to believe that I cannot be trusted to do the right thing, so an extremely unpleasant, exhausting stick is required to keep me in line to work and save. Internal locus of control appears quite weak here, so better keep ourselves stuck externally. If you're left to your own devices, you'll just be an utter disgusting slob, so we need to cattle-prod you into consistent performance. Brings to mind the point made above: without the stressor of the job, unhealthy habits will be easier to bring in line as there will not be that stressor to be self-medicating. Will they? On a level I really don't seem to believe this.

I wonder if an internal locus of control is something one can work to develop. The way my mistrust in mine seems to have developed is, "I observe this loser being a loser and a slob, you can't trust his pathetic lazy ass." Reminds me of Fumio Sasaki's account of how his depression/self-confidence improved. He says he felt more self-confident BECAUSE he cleaned his apartment every day (and he could clean his apartment every day because the apartment was small and minimalist, thus didn't contain many things and was straightforward and enjoyable to clean. Thus step 1, get rid of things). My teabag-and-fridgelessness brand of frugality might have an advantage, then, not so much in terms of the absolute amount of money saved, but in terms of me being able to observe myself consistently engaging in money-saving goal directed activities. Might be why Marie Kondo believes that kondifying your belongings once will change your life. The JP school of thought really seems to recognize the importance of your surroundings as a mirror and a self-transformation tool. (See also jordan peterson who tells insecure college boys to be like the big lobster and clean their room. See also moms worldwide.)

I am attracted to minimalism/MK for this reason (not to JP who imo is a fraud but that's irrelevant to this thread). I also feel a psychological difference in me depending on how my space looks. Sitting on the couch with my place clean, my laptiop wiped off, and a smelly candle is a very different state than being surrounded by take-out containers and unwashed dishes, athrone my very own neckbeard nest (have been both these places). Potential disagreement with ERE philosophy here: if it is very psychologically important to me how my surroundings look and feel, it might not make me happy to optimize them just for cost and fill them with ugly DIYed recycled garbage (not dissing on DIY here, rather on my own DIY skills). But I guess that's jumping ahead of myself. In the end, it's a matter of "how much longer are you willing to work if you insist on living in a nice 1bdrm apt vs. a 50% cheaper attic room. Also, I'll conveniently side-step the part where having your DIY not look like crap is usually achieved via DIY skill development.

The tl;dr: version of this post is, it might be a good idea to clean up my hovel of a place tonight and actually mop.

ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

@steveo73: Shout-out man. Keeping my fingers crossed that things go fast and easy for you.

@cL, I can tell you mean well, you see a dude who's suffering in your opinion needlessly and you want him not to suffer - like that bug that keeps banging itself into the window when the other part is open just a couple of inches away, and if it could only see that, it could effortlessly fly out. But also, you're kinda coming across as, "the smart thing is to do what I have done, and if you're not doing what I have done, then that's stupid. I trust you're smart enough to make a choice like mine, not a choice like yours." I get it comes from good intentions, but our citizenships are different, our professions are different, our family/partner situation is different - just to make a start. My situation is vague because I do not want to give explicit information on the internet. It has happened that an extended family member has put two and two together on the basis of posts I've made online before, and then took it to all the rest of the family, so protecting my privacy here is important, both in terms of countries involved, profession, actual numbers, etc. But also, that's no issue because I am not looking for concrete advice. Concrete advice is useless. You can tell a person to start lifting weights and that's gonna do absolutely nothing unless they themselves arrive at a place where lifting weights is what they're driven to do. If the psychology is worked out, the strategies and tactics naturally fall into place. Strategies and tactics are rarely what people need help with anyway, even when they ask for strategies and tactics. Mostly, what they need is to discuss the problem.

ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

Thought I had on the way home: maybe this tendency of mine (to value the appearance of the abode) might make me well-suited to activities that refurbish the appearance of household objects (upcycling) or making decorative items. Something to keep at the back of my mind. And now, the mop.

bostonimproper
Posts: 581
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:45 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by bostonimproper »

On the food front, I've found supplanting to be easier than deprivation. In particular, when I "gifted" myself a CSA membership, it forced me to cook lots of vegetables, lest I have to throw them out (I can't bear to waste food). This, in turn, sharply reduced my eating out budget more than "no you're not allowed to eat out so much" ever did. Structured abundance of the good thing to leave no room for the bad.

avanishk
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:52 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by avanishk »

ertyu wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:00 am
I was watching myself today: I am not hungry, but the thought of Subway arises. I notice it, hopefully let it pass like a mindful guy is supposed to, then a couple of minutes later here it is again and I resent having to reject it, but I let it pass, then it comes up again, then finally after an hour and a half of this I end up ordering Subway and suddenly I relax - I realize how tense and tight my body has gradually gotten.

This process is nothing new. I realize that I do not make the thoughts come up, nor am I able to stop them from coming up or will them away, eventually I give in. But this inability to control my spending is something which makes me afraid to pull the plug on work. How can I reliably be frugal if I cannot control myself? Some immature foot-stroppy part of me is of the opinion that I am already denied so much in life - the ability to do what I want, but also, love by an ideal partner, as imagined, and respect by others. (Yes I am aware how immature this sounds, but the truth shall set you free, etcetera - no one benefits from me pretending it's not there when it is just because I am aware it makes me sound spoiled and immature).
I came across a free Mindvalley quest (7 days to Breaking Up with Sugar) from Eric Edmeades that dives deep into these challenges and emotional eating patterns. This particular quest talks about Sugar addiction, however the same can apply to any food habits. There are many youtube videos of Eric that you can listen to as well and see if those ideas help.

ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

@avanishk thanks, first time i hear about mindvalley or eric edmeades, I'll look it up

@bostonimproper, I hear you, this is good advice. When I have more time and energy and can actually organize myself to cook, I find I can stay off the junk better. I still eat too much but I eat less crap in absolute sense. The general idea is good though - don't fight the bad, see how you can get more of the good. I'll sit and think about how that applies across life areas.

Thank you both

ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

Researched median/average wages in my country. They're increasing, which, good for people. But the more time passes, the more the real purchasing power of what I make is eroded. As wages rise, so does rent, and so do prices. What I need to save rises with every passing year. I knew this was going to happen - I knew wages would start converging up. Seeing it actually happen and seeing the goalposts move year to year is discouraging. I still save approximately four local monthly wages for every month I work here, so 1 year worked currently saves for 4 years of living expenses at home. I will have 25 years (*) saved by the time of Performance Cull in 90 work days. Not so bad, but at the same time, not good either, esp. if the goalposts keep moving. The rational thing to do is save more than 25 years.

(*) doesn't account for major medical emergencies for me or family of origin; doesn't account for unplanned lifestyle changes e.g. becoming partnered and having children. I have already written about it being the most rational thing to work for another up to 3 years, and my doubts I would be able to do it.

The thing is, deep down I seem to be quite strongly against the idea of semi-ERE. I do not want to have to keep working on any level. So far, I have taken up to 3 months off at a time, and there is definitely a mental "overhang" - if I need to be an employee, albeit part-time, I need to divert my mental energy into maintaining employability. I am aware maintaining employability makes sense from an insurance/diversification perspective; I am also aware that no matter how much I do or do not save, nothing can guarantee that I would not have to go back to work. It is possible in the future I will feel differently, esp. if I accept employment solely because it appears to be an interesting activity to engage in and not because I need the income. But still, semi-ERE appears to be some line in the sand my mind has drawn and will foot-stompingly defend.

My idea of the post-retirement life isn't very clear. I do have interests - I read, I like writing absolutely amateur short-stories which I do not want to monetize, I like nature walks, I like coffee by the beach, and I like DIY even as I live in constant tension with the necessary accumulation of tools that my minimalist streak would like to avoid. I will probably spend half a day in a coffee shop, I would probably write, and I would probably devote more time to cooking and getting my health and fitness in order. Or at least this is how I imagine the first couple of post-retirement years. I am not looking forward to particular activities so much as I am looking forward to uncoupling my brain from "employability." Who will emerge in place of the employee? I am looking forward to meeting him.

flying_pan
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:06 am
Location: USA, Oregon

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by flying_pan »

ertyu wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:17 pm
Researched median/average wages in my country. They're increasing, which, good for people. But the more time passes, the more the real purchasing power of what I make is eroded. As wages rise, so does rent, and so do prices. What I need to save rises with every passing year. I knew this was going to happen - I knew wages would start converging up. Seeing it actually happen and seeing the goalposts move year to year is discouraging. I still save approximately four local monthly wages for every month I work here, so 1 year worked currently saves for 4 years of living expenses at home. I will have 25 years (*) saved by the time of Performance Cull in 90 work days. Not so bad, but at the same time, not good either, esp. if the goalposts keep moving. The rational thing to do is save more than 25 years.
I don't know what your original country is, but mine is Russia, and while wages/cost of living are slowly rising, the main factor is rent. So if you can own your property outright, you can live very cheap. Like, on ~$250 for 1, and this number does not rise very much really, the only issue is volatility of local currency, but keeping everything in USD would solve it.

So maybe looking at renting vs owning is a good idea.

mathiverse
Posts: 803
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by mathiverse »

ertyu wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:00 am
I came to write here today because today was really hard to go through at work. The desire to escape and run away, and the feeling of being trapped, were stronger than usual... I was surprised at how strong the feeling was and how seemingly uncorrelated with the reality of my job. Yes, I would rather be pretty much anywhere else and I often actively dislike client interaction, but objectively and aside from my feelings, there are many worse jobs and ways to save. Many other people work the same job and don't have such a strong reaction to working. Why do I? I am already working on ere and have made it my goal to stop working. The feelings emerge in me spontaneously. I can feel them come up in my body. They make my life really hard, and harder than it needs to be. Out of the desire to escape, I procrastinate on trivial work tasks which start feeling like Ultimate Suffering And Drudgery and pile up in a way that makes me later cut corners with quality in order to somehow scramble to get things done in time. Colleagues see me as incompetent and lazy, but I feel like I am making a lot of effort to keep showing up and keep completing my tasks. Inside, it feels like I am working really, really hard, whereas if you were to observe me on the outside without knowing me, you would probably see a slacker. Even doing so little work, it weighs on me so hard. I am still working on it, trying to use mindfulness/focusing/self-talk/whatever, but I really wish I could work and not be this miserable. Is the misery because subconscious thinks that if I am not miserable I will keep working? I don't know. Still not sure about what the key is to sorting out my psychology here.
Hey ertyu,

I've been following your journal (and appreciate your comments on mine). This is pretty similar to how I feel a lot of times. I'm not too sure why I can't seem to handle full time work in a healthy way, but it weighs heavily on me and is a big reason I'm looking to become ERE.

ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

flying_pan wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:24 am
So maybe looking at renting vs owning is a good idea.
I have looked into it and regularly look through listings. A couple of things stand between me and pulling the trigger. The central one is, I feel like if I am ready to own, I should also be ready to commit to a location to settle down, and at this point I am not very clear about where that would be. Property values are inflated, as they are everywhere (present value of imputed rent over 20 yrs < property value), and at present it is often cheaper to rent. One plan I have is slow-traveling my country for the first 1-2 years to see where I might like it best.

Second, I don't really want to go back to my country. I really want to stop working, that is my overarching motivation, and I can only afford to stop working if I then settle in my country of origin. I'm an old hand at geo-arbitrage so I have considered things like slow-traveling over SE Asia and other such that are cheaper to Americans than staying in the states but would not necessarily be cheaper to me who can access developing country prices in my home country without the "tourist discount." But there are many things about my country I don't like. I don't like how there isn't a culture of personal growth, of trying to become "larger" and more tolerant. Like most other developing countries, my country tends to the conservative. Many closed-minded, small-minded, reactive people who live lives governed by their psychological complexes. I guess me and others like me are part of the problem, as we have long left the country.

Also, deciding on a location is also wrapped with deciding how involved I want to be in the caretaking of my ageing parents. I have an extremely selfish sibling who I do not doubt is the sort of person who would abandon our parents so I won't have another choice but to be chained to elder care, buttfuck nowhere developing country boonies.

Long story short, the location question is still quite open for me.

ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

Now that @mathiverse pulled up that paragraph, I realize that my issues with my job are entirely interpersonal. It's not what, it's who with, it's interacting with people - bosses, colleagues, clients.

ertyu
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: 3 yrs to FI: ertyu's journal

Post by ertyu »

So, today is a week since I was last at work. Time went so fast. I didn't accomplish anything huge and wasn't suddenly full of joy, energy, and thirst for life, but I have been ok. Calm. I read a coaching book called "Helping People Change" which comes with a MOOC on Coursera (which I haven't signed up for). Not sure if I'd recommend the entire book. Two things were useful:

(1) "If your life was awesome 10-15 years from now, what would that look like." Extending the time-frame from the customary "what's your new yrs resolution" and "where do you see yourself in 5 yrs" gets people to engage with their vision in a more holistic and abstract way and engages their imagination. More creative ideas and solutions result.
(1.1) Apparently talking this through with a person who asks you questions to clarify and makes encouraging noises at you looks different under an fmri than writing it out. Talking is better. Might posit an imaginary friend on the couch and talk to them.

(2) Something that I had always intuited, and which always made me want to butt heads with the "SMART goals" and "progress targets" crowd: making a goal sets an expectation. You now have something to fail against. You monitor for ways you are falling short. This goals -> stress link makes people want to put off and avoid their goals. "Listing goals" vs. "discussing a personal vision" are neurologically different things.

“For many people (other than those with a motive called a high need for achievement, such as people who seek a career in sales), this creates an obligation(*). The obligation creates stress and begins to add to the negative process in the brain that we’ve described throughout this book. The goal then may become something to avoid rather than pursue.”

*I would call it expectation personally - but the end result is the same, I experience it as a limitation to personal freedom, a have-to that weighs and generates avoidance rather than a goalpost or a motivating thing.

Book went into reasons why this might be and stated different goals might be differently effective in different contexts, but was ultimately wishy-washy on exactly what goals suited to each context would look like so as to be motivating and not trigger this defensiveness/prevent-failure/avoid stress and obligation response.

Fuck every single boss that ever made me write targets, truly.

Post Reply