mathiverse's journal

[jacob]

The ROI of DIY taxes is much higher since you now know where/how to optimize.

Next year may be even faster since you can just do a diff between the two years.

[NewBlood]

I've been using FreeTaxUSA for years. The only thing I have to pay is the electronic state filing ($15). I believe it works like turbotax (though I've never used it). If your taxes are simple enough, it's great!

[mathiverse]

If I ever have a reason to go back to paying for tax filing, then I'll check them out! That is much cheaper than TurboTax. However, now I know how to file my federal and state taxes for free, so I'll stick with that.

[NewBlood]

Sounds good!

[mathiverse]

ERE Updates

• Continued reading McConnell, on and off - I'm about halfway through it
• Read a few non-textbook books on investing for a change of pace
• Read Weinberg's book on systems theory
• I'm eating out less, but still not where I want to be as far as food spending per month goes. I switched to eating more no-prep stuff for the meals I eat at home (eg yogurt and fruit, sardines, nuts, protein shakes).
• Got a city bike share membership which has already paid off in terms of avoiding Ubers, doing more errands, and exercising more
• Learned to swim using the freestyle stroke from a book and DVD

If I look at my expenses over the last six months, then the only spending category worth worrying about is my spending on food. I'm not really motivated to fix the issue at the moment though. I plan to think more about it in the coming months.

I've settled into a lifestyle where I (for the most part) read books, read the ERE forums, hang with my SO, chat with friends, and go to the gym. In the short/medium term, most of my activities are aimed at solving the few remaining problems I see: managing my investments better, reducing spending to a level where I am actually FI (now I'm semi-ERE at best), getting fit, and figuring out the cooking problem.

[mathiverse]

Goal: Make an edible, simple chicken thigh via pan searing

I've been making a new recipe each day for a few days and I found that I consistently cook chicken thighs poorly. If I get better at making chicken, then more of my cooking will turn out edible. Also it'd be extra great to get good at making a simple chicken thigh recipe turn out well since that could be a dish on days I want to keep things simple. I'm assuming that understanding how to make a pan seared chicken thigh come out properly will improve my ability to make a braised chicken thigh come out well too since most recipes with braising start with a brown-the-chicken step.

• Salt and pepper will be the only two seasonings for now. I have no idea how much salt and pepper to use, therefore I'll have to experiment with the amounts.
• The big picture is that I want to have the outside brown at the same rate the inside reaches 165 degrees Fahrenheit so I avoid overcooking/undercooking the inside/outside. Therefore, figuring out the right stove temperature given my stove is the most important part of the process as far as I can tell.
• I'll also spoon melted butter onto the chicken thigh during the searing for extra flavor (? At least that's why I assume I've seen that done before.)

[bostonimproper]

You could also reverse sear or sous vide and pan finish if you have time and want more consistent results.

[mathiverse]

I'd rather stick with pan searing for now. I am guessing my results will get consistent enough with practice. If not, then maybe I'll try one of those techniques next.

[OutOfTheBlue]

Just in case it can be helpful:

How to Properly Heat a Pan (for searing) from Rouxbe cooking school: https://youtu.be/CB-SCA1reqE

Then, once you put the oil and place the meat, you don't touch it for some time. If you move it too soon, it will still stick.

In the end before serving, you might cover with aluminum foil and let it rest a bit.

[mathiverse]

How to Properly Heat a Pan

This is interesting. I did know that you ought to heat a pan before adding oil to minimize sticking, but I didn't realize there was a spectrum of water responses to know the "best" temperature. But honestly I don't see how this is useful. It appears to be beyond my skill level and understanding. Is the best temperature for avoiding sticking the same as the best temperature for the food to heat evenly? How is one temperature on the stove the best temperature for every single food in every single food chunk size? If the video admits that the pan will quickly increase in heat beyond the point that is "best," then is it really that important to start the food cooking in that exact moment? Won't you have to make adjustments after adding the oil either way? Am I expecting too much of this temperature? Maybe it's only the temperature you add the oil and then you go with the flow as the stove temperature changes? As you can see, I just don't get it.

Then, once you put the oil and place the meat, you don't touch it for some time. If you move it too soon, it will still stick.

In the end before serving, you might cover with aluminum foil and let it rest a bit.

Thanks for these tips, too. Why is it useful to cover the meat with aluminum foil? I think I know why letting the meat rest is useful (correct me if you had other reasoning though): Allowing it to rest will reduce the number of juices that are released from the meat once you cut into it, therefore the meat will be juicier when you eat it.

[SouthernAlchemy]

Not sure what constitutes edible for you, so not sure what you are looking for, but I have a couple of approaches to chicken thighs. If I want to keep the skin crispy, I'll sear in a pan (with oil) over med high heat until the skin is nice and browned. It doesn't hurt to lift it up and check. Heat should be high enough to render most of the fat out of the skin (crispy) by the time desired browness is achieved. Too high and it will be dark (or burnt ) and still flabby. Too low and it will be pale and rubbery. This will take some practice to get time and temp correct. When that is achieved I flip and it goes into the oven. It can be in the same pan it was seared in or a separate sheet pan if doing a lot. If doing more than a couple of thighs, there will be a lot of fat in the pan... Takes maybe 30-35 minutes in a 375F oven. If there is some associated sauce, searing is the same, but after flipping sauce goes in the pan with the chicken and then it is covered. It can then be finished on the stovetop, simmering on low heat. This can be a little quicker cooking, but the skin won't stay as crispy, but it's still pretty good if the browning step is done well. Another approach would be a true braise- sear, sauce (not totally covering thighs) then into the oven uncovered, so you have moist heat on bottom and dry on top. This can come out really well since the meat will fall apart if cooked long enough, the skin gets/stays crispy and the sauce can become very rich and concentrated. This is probably an advanced technique.

This is all for bone in, skin on thighs.. If you are just doing boneless/skinless (not recommended ) you'll probably need to come up with a pretty good marinade to make it edible via pan searing but they can come out good that way and will cook faster for sure.

[Slevin]

Its been a few years since I cooked chicken thighs, but I used to do exactly what @SouthernAlchemy noted above. Sear one side to a crispy skin on cast iron or copper pan (something with a high heat capacity that can also just pop in the over) with ghee, then flip over and into the oven. Bonus points for rosemary or whatever delicious seasonings. Its much more consistent than just on the stove top the whole way (very difficult to be consistent). I would keep a little sheet of temps used and sear times and bake times for reference points until they got internalized. This method also translates almost directly to steak (its basically Tim Ferris's sexy time steak recipe)

[mathiverse]

Thanks for the advice.

For steaks, I toss one in the oven after searing when I accidentally don't have the stove temperature right to get the steak to the right internal temperature by the time I'm done searing the steak. It sounds like that is what SouthernAlchemy and Slevin do except with chicken thighs? Did I understand correctly?

Is there any reason to believe one can't just do it all on the stove top at the appropriate temperature? If I can't do it on the stove top given the right temperature, can you explain? If you agree that I can do it on the stove top, then is the main reason to do with a stove, then an oven due to the better consistency or is there some other reason as well? For example, given what SouthernAlchemy wrote, I'm wondering if the temperature the stove needs to be to cook the inside and outside at the same rate will never result in a crispy skin. Is that another reason to do the oven finish?

What I'm trying to ask above is basically this: In the case of steak, the oven finish is due to the difficulty of getting the right temperature/timing since I'm not an expert steak cook. Is that basically the same thing with the chicken or are there reasons other than lack of skill to prefer an oven finish?

In any case, oven finishing when I don't get the inside cooked enough when the outside is done is a great option that I didn't think of despite the fact I do it all the time when cooking steak. Thank you!

[mathiverse]

with ghee

Why did you use ghee?

[Slevin]

I used ghee because it has a higher smoke point with the sear and more flavor than oil (and I might argue straight butter). Not a necessary thing; oil with a higher smoke point should be fine too. I don't pay that much attention to smoke points and arguments about it these days because I don't sear things.

Again, I'm not arguing from working knowledge rn, but I think the argument for using the stove is just that it keeps consistent temps and heat curves (momentum) you wouldn't see or be able to replicate across stovetops or individual cooking sessions as easily (pan placement, surface contact of chicken with pan due to shape, etc effects the stovetop cooking much more).

[SouthernAlchemy]

it's definitely time and temp. A thigh is pretty thick and has a bone right through the middle. The bone (less dense) is fighting against you to get to the right temp (165F, quite a bit higher than even a well done steak...) in a reasonable amount of time. In an oven you have relatively gentle heat all around so the temp of the chicken rises evenly. In the pan you are getting a very high temp on a relatively small piece of the meat (thru which all heat must travel to the rest). This slows your cook time down considerably. The biggest risk is under cooked-chicken, particularly right around the bone, but edibility is also affected as the meat in contact with pan will get dry and crusty. There is some protection from the skin, but over the extended cooking time it can even become unpalatable. Removing the bone could maybe help, but the thigh is an odd shaped muscle and without the bone to keep its shape it will contract when it hits the heat and have some real thick parts, thus heat transfer can still take awhile and cooking will be uneven, possibly leading to unacceptable results.

If you really want to cook completely on the stovetop, check out the brick method. I've never done this particular recipe but the theory is sound. It is for chicken halves, but will work the same with just thighs. You'll notice some of the bones are removed, including from the thighs. This is so when you put the weight on them they are flattened to an even thickness with more contact with the heat source. If you don't have a cast iron pan for the top, you can use a straight brick wrapped in foil.

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/foo ... pe-2105081

[mathiverse]

Thank you for the explanations, SouthernAlchemy and Slevin! I think you two have convinced me to finish the chicken in the oven after browning it.

[mathiverse]

Wow, I just browned a chicken thigh in the pan and then finished it in the oven and it came out perfectly. Only chicken, olive oil, salt, and pepper were needed to make the dish delicious. That was easier than I expected. Let's see if I can pull that off again tomorrow!

[mathiverse]

I have learned from experience that 165 degrees Fahrenheit is a minimum not a target. Cooking the chicken to a higher temperature doesn't mean it's been overcooked. Usually the chicken is around 180 degrees Fahrenheit when I take it out of the oven, but it still tastes great.

[mathiverse]

Inelasticity and Elasticity in a Few Different Contexts

In ERE when a person chooses to stay in a fair ecological footprint (or another reason for JAFI or lower spending), more things in life become income inelastic. A higher income no longer results in more consumption because they have an ecological limit to consider and because they tend to consume with capital other than money. A lower income doesn't result in less consumption since what they consume is already priced very low compared to the value (ie same reason toothpaste or rice is relatively inelastic). They also don't consume much with their income in the first place, so an increase or decrease in income leaves them with a high savings rate and thus a lot of slack remaining in their budget which means there is less of a psychological/safety reason to reduce their spending further once their income gets lower.

A very active person is energy inelastic to exercise compared to sedentary people. A sedentary person, when faced with a loss of energy such as recovering from illness, an increased workload at work, going on vacation, or sleeping poorly, may cut out exercise entirely and they will often reduce its frequency and intensity. On the other hand someone who is very active, when faced with the same loss of energy, may reduce exercise frequency and intensity, but typically the absolute reduction will be less and, since they are starting from a higher level of exercise in the first place, the relative reduction will be less. Going from an hour of exercise a day to 30 minutes is a 50% cut, but the sedentary person might give up exercise altogether in the same circumstances. In some cases, an injury or a type of soreness that would stop a sedentary person in their tracks would only cause a slight modification in the content of exercise for the active person. Another observation is that, in some cases, a sedentary person is perfectly energy elastic with respect to exercise. Either the person feels at 100% and they exercise or they feel "off" and so they put off any exercise.