mathiverse's journal
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
ERE Update
My expenses are still much lower due to COVID lockdowns. No Spend is going well. I'm trying not to focus on the money specifics as much. I still have my tracking spreadsheet, but I find it's not that rewarding to focus on the money part since I merely wait for paychecks these days (in light of the easy mode No Spend now that I'm set with COVID lockdown related purchases). I felt like I was getting wrecked looking at my spreadsheets because I felt like I was in a holding pattern there. No quick ways to increase income and no quick ways to decrease spending. I'm trying to focus on post-Bay Area plans and current day to day challenges/goals instead and make progress there and merely let things accumulate.
The biggest ERE related thing I've been doing is exercising regularly. In particular I've been running three times a week. I've consistently tried and failed to start a running habit many times in the past. COVID related working from home + getting a treadmill has finally resulted in a situation where I regularly run. It's awesome. Another reason I can't see myself going back to an office job.
French is going okay. My listening is doing much better given how much French tv I watch XD. I want to hit the books more since I consistently get frustrated with missing nuance in the stories I watch on tv, but I've decided against that since I want to focus on my unrelated classwork. For now, I make a mental note of all the frustrations in understanding so I have motivation for hitting the books once I get some time to do it.
Work Update
I'm a healthier and happier person working from home. That's still true. I've also gradually been getting better at pacing my productivity and being consistent. My company is WFH for the next six months and I'm excited to see what I can do in that time. I'm spending less time than ever on work and getting more than ever done. It's awesome.
It's not only getting better due to WFH, but also due to getting better at work. I've been realizing that one thing that holds me up at work is the ambiguity. I realized rather than dreaming about the "good old days" when my senior teammates would give me easy, straightforward, somewhat detailed stuff to do, I could break down all my tasks to really, really, really small chunks like I wish someone would do for me. This means starting something takes a lot longer due to this overhead, but it means I can consistently make progress more easily once I start. Having a list of tiny, tiny bite-sized chunks of work in the morning makes it waaay easier for me to get into a productive state of mind. I can wishy-washily get into things by searching my list for the simplest, simplest bit, do it, feel motivated, do another bit, and by the end I've really done something. It's great.
The other useful thing I've figured out is that FBeyer's advice/recommendation to focus on "What do I need to live a fulfilled life?" applies also to the questions related to work. I realized to live a fulfilled life it turns out that I feel like I need to put in good work. As in, I don't want to half-ass it since I'll feel less fulfilled. I also realized that getting promoted once more to senior before I leave my career would make me feel more fulfilled, but getting promoted in the next year versus in the next two years probably wouldn't make much of a difference. This resolved some pressure I was trying to deal with about the fact some of my peers were advancing fast. I felt it as pressure to work harder to catch up even though at my current pace I could still get promoted in a reasonable time. It also makes it way easier to be less jealous of the fast pace of my peers since I realized being supportive of my peers makes me feel more fulfilled than the frustration/jealousy/uncertainty about my choices I feel otherwise. Anyway I've had a lot of thoughts and reasoning along those lines.
You might ask why career or promotions matter given I want to ERE/FIRE. Well like I said, I'd like to hit the senior milestone as a point of pride before I leave the industry. If I leave software post-FIRE, then that means I have two to three years to get that promo. That's not a crazy timeline for the average career, so I should be good. If I do decide to continue the career for fun post-ERE, the better title will likely help in negotiations for flexibility or other things. I might even try to get my current company to let me work full time remote from elsewhere in the US and that probably wouldn't happen if I can't get to the senior level (though I would try before moving on assuming my work is still as worthwhile to pursue as it is now). It matters socially since my friends are career climbers (for now, some expect to chill once they hit certain milestones) and I want to coexist with them. And finally I generally trust the process, once I show the skills and abilities, then I'll get promo. The promo is a signal my skills and abilities have developed how I wanted them to develop.
Classes
So I'm taking two classes right now. Last week was the first week of classes and I spent about 25.5 hours on classwork.
I found that having the classwork to do made me use my time better than before when I had an extra 3 - 4 hours a day. I'm pretty pleased with how that week went and I even ended up getting ahead in the classwork while meeting all my work obligations, not alienating my SO, running, and cooking all my meals. (Note: Another reason I can't see myself going back to an office job. Pretty sure all that would be impossible for me with an in person, office job.)
The second week is still going well in that I'm caught up in all my classes, but I haven't consistently hit 3 - 4 hours of classwork a day. The lack of urgency due to 1) being ahead of schedule and 2) being more certain I can handle the course load has meant that it's harder to motivate myself to work consistently. I wonder if I can be consistent at that intensity without the urgency. It's yet to be seen. I'm considering that maybe this is a sign that I don't necessarily benefit from getting super ahead since I'll take the next week "off" rather than keeping the lead. Or perhaps it's a tactic I can keep in mind: when I have the urgency, I can get ahead in order to have a slow week or two afterward. I suppose there isn't a reason to maintain consistency for no purpose if I can't/don't want to.
My expenses are still much lower due to COVID lockdowns. No Spend is going well. I'm trying not to focus on the money specifics as much. I still have my tracking spreadsheet, but I find it's not that rewarding to focus on the money part since I merely wait for paychecks these days (in light of the easy mode No Spend now that I'm set with COVID lockdown related purchases). I felt like I was getting wrecked looking at my spreadsheets because I felt like I was in a holding pattern there. No quick ways to increase income and no quick ways to decrease spending. I'm trying to focus on post-Bay Area plans and current day to day challenges/goals instead and make progress there and merely let things accumulate.
The biggest ERE related thing I've been doing is exercising regularly. In particular I've been running three times a week. I've consistently tried and failed to start a running habit many times in the past. COVID related working from home + getting a treadmill has finally resulted in a situation where I regularly run. It's awesome. Another reason I can't see myself going back to an office job.
French is going okay. My listening is doing much better given how much French tv I watch XD. I want to hit the books more since I consistently get frustrated with missing nuance in the stories I watch on tv, but I've decided against that since I want to focus on my unrelated classwork. For now, I make a mental note of all the frustrations in understanding so I have motivation for hitting the books once I get some time to do it.
Work Update
I'm a healthier and happier person working from home. That's still true. I've also gradually been getting better at pacing my productivity and being consistent. My company is WFH for the next six months and I'm excited to see what I can do in that time. I'm spending less time than ever on work and getting more than ever done. It's awesome.
It's not only getting better due to WFH, but also due to getting better at work. I've been realizing that one thing that holds me up at work is the ambiguity. I realized rather than dreaming about the "good old days" when my senior teammates would give me easy, straightforward, somewhat detailed stuff to do, I could break down all my tasks to really, really, really small chunks like I wish someone would do for me. This means starting something takes a lot longer due to this overhead, but it means I can consistently make progress more easily once I start. Having a list of tiny, tiny bite-sized chunks of work in the morning makes it waaay easier for me to get into a productive state of mind. I can wishy-washily get into things by searching my list for the simplest, simplest bit, do it, feel motivated, do another bit, and by the end I've really done something. It's great.
The other useful thing I've figured out is that FBeyer's advice/recommendation to focus on "What do I need to live a fulfilled life?" applies also to the questions related to work. I realized to live a fulfilled life it turns out that I feel like I need to put in good work. As in, I don't want to half-ass it since I'll feel less fulfilled. I also realized that getting promoted once more to senior before I leave my career would make me feel more fulfilled, but getting promoted in the next year versus in the next two years probably wouldn't make much of a difference. This resolved some pressure I was trying to deal with about the fact some of my peers were advancing fast. I felt it as pressure to work harder to catch up even though at my current pace I could still get promoted in a reasonable time. It also makes it way easier to be less jealous of the fast pace of my peers since I realized being supportive of my peers makes me feel more fulfilled than the frustration/jealousy/uncertainty about my choices I feel otherwise. Anyway I've had a lot of thoughts and reasoning along those lines.
You might ask why career or promotions matter given I want to ERE/FIRE. Well like I said, I'd like to hit the senior milestone as a point of pride before I leave the industry. If I leave software post-FIRE, then that means I have two to three years to get that promo. That's not a crazy timeline for the average career, so I should be good. If I do decide to continue the career for fun post-ERE, the better title will likely help in negotiations for flexibility or other things. I might even try to get my current company to let me work full time remote from elsewhere in the US and that probably wouldn't happen if I can't get to the senior level (though I would try before moving on assuming my work is still as worthwhile to pursue as it is now). It matters socially since my friends are career climbers (for now, some expect to chill once they hit certain milestones) and I want to coexist with them. And finally I generally trust the process, once I show the skills and abilities, then I'll get promo. The promo is a signal my skills and abilities have developed how I wanted them to develop.
Classes
So I'm taking two classes right now. Last week was the first week of classes and I spent about 25.5 hours on classwork.
I found that having the classwork to do made me use my time better than before when I had an extra 3 - 4 hours a day. I'm pretty pleased with how that week went and I even ended up getting ahead in the classwork while meeting all my work obligations, not alienating my SO, running, and cooking all my meals. (Note: Another reason I can't see myself going back to an office job. Pretty sure all that would be impossible for me with an in person, office job.)
The second week is still going well in that I'm caught up in all my classes, but I haven't consistently hit 3 - 4 hours of classwork a day. The lack of urgency due to 1) being ahead of schedule and 2) being more certain I can handle the course load has meant that it's harder to motivate myself to work consistently. I wonder if I can be consistent at that intensity without the urgency. It's yet to be seen. I'm considering that maybe this is a sign that I don't necessarily benefit from getting super ahead since I'll take the next week "off" rather than keeping the lead. Or perhaps it's a tactic I can keep in mind: when I have the urgency, I can get ahead in order to have a slow week or two afterward. I suppose there isn't a reason to maintain consistency for no purpose if I can't/don't want to.
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MidwestCoder
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:05 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
Hi there. Software developer here as well, also working from home for the rest of the year. It is quite nice working from home. I used to do it for many years, but for a company that had 90% of their staff in the office and it was more difficult to be a remote guy. When EVERYONE is working at home in the company it is better, because you don't miss anything really, and don't feel left out.
I noticed you don't put a lot of spending and earnings detail in your journal. Is that for doxing related reasons? Maybe I should remove the detail I have in my journal, and talk more in general terms. Thanks.
I noticed you don't put a lot of spending and earnings detail in your journal. Is that for doxing related reasons? Maybe I should remove the detail I have in my journal, and talk more in general terms. Thanks.
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
Hi MidwestCoder,
Thanks for the comment!
Reasons for not putting a lot of financial details range from embarrassment (bit out of place with spending and earning here XD) to doxxing/obfuscating my info (specifically because a few friends know my handle here) to plain old not getting a lot of value out of posting them. I still track my finances in detail in private spreadsheets. I also think the behavior follows from my own attempts to try to focus less on the dollars and more on skills/plans/life. I figure the reasons I'm not as satisfied as I'd like are due to reasons other than money and I'm trying to fix those things.
Yeah, it makes sense that things are way easier when everyone is WFH versus only you. I wonder how much less I'd like it if I were the only person WFH on my team once the company goes back to the office. My guess is that the benefits I get out of it may outweigh the costs of that situation. I'll be interested to find out.
Thanks for the comment!
Reasons for not putting a lot of financial details range from embarrassment (bit out of place with spending and earning here XD) to doxxing/obfuscating my info (specifically because a few friends know my handle here) to plain old not getting a lot of value out of posting them. I still track my finances in detail in private spreadsheets. I also think the behavior follows from my own attempts to try to focus less on the dollars and more on skills/plans/life. I figure the reasons I'm not as satisfied as I'd like are due to reasons other than money and I'm trying to fix those things.
Yeah, it makes sense that things are way easier when everyone is WFH versus only you. I wonder how much less I'd like it if I were the only person WFH on my team once the company goes back to the office. My guess is that the benefits I get out of it may outweigh the costs of that situation. I'll be interested to find out.
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
ERE Update
Not much new here. I learned to make porridge which is a good, new option for breakfast. I also figured out how to do meal prep, so I can eat all week after cooking only once. The trade off is that I have to eat the same meal during every lunch and dinner, but it's been useful when I have been too busy with classes and working to make meals during the week.
It looks like I'll be moving out of California within the next year!
I struck while the iron was hot and suggested to my SO that we move out of California before the next fire season and they agreed. Neither of us want to live through another smoke/fire season if we can avoid it. No concrete plans since I still have to talk more with my SO to figure out which city fits both of our desires/needs.
I've listened to over 150 hours of French and I can easily notice the results when I listen to something new. I also started going through an online French phonology course which has helped both my listening and my reading since now I can better guess how to pronounce a new word I've never seen before. It feels good to make progress on this front.
Work Update
Work is about the same, however I'm different lately. I'm really tired of working lately. I've been obsessing about how restricted I am when I have to work which always leads to dissatisfaction. I've been refocusing on the good that work does for me since it's really not the right time for me to leave my job. I might be edging close to burnout. The burnout is most likely a result of a combination of multiple stressors (classes, work, fires, pandemic, etc, etc) not only work. I've been having fantasies of quitting, spending the next year chilling, and then going back into the job market. When I take a step back out of the fantasy, I know I don't want to do that since in the long term another year or two of this would set me up much better. Meh. I'm going to try to take off next week and decompress a bit.
Gardening
What's the cheapest (preferably, free) way to start gardening on an apartment balcony? Any tips or links for getting started? I'd like to grow some food.
Not much new here. I learned to make porridge which is a good, new option for breakfast. I also figured out how to do meal prep, so I can eat all week after cooking only once. The trade off is that I have to eat the same meal during every lunch and dinner, but it's been useful when I have been too busy with classes and working to make meals during the week.
It looks like I'll be moving out of California within the next year!
I struck while the iron was hot and suggested to my SO that we move out of California before the next fire season and they agreed. Neither of us want to live through another smoke/fire season if we can avoid it. No concrete plans since I still have to talk more with my SO to figure out which city fits both of our desires/needs.I've listened to over 150 hours of French and I can easily notice the results when I listen to something new. I also started going through an online French phonology course which has helped both my listening and my reading since now I can better guess how to pronounce a new word I've never seen before. It feels good to make progress on this front.
Work Update
Work is about the same, however I'm different lately. I'm really tired of working lately. I've been obsessing about how restricted I am when I have to work which always leads to dissatisfaction. I've been refocusing on the good that work does for me since it's really not the right time for me to leave my job. I might be edging close to burnout. The burnout is most likely a result of a combination of multiple stressors (classes, work, fires, pandemic, etc, etc) not only work. I've been having fantasies of quitting, spending the next year chilling, and then going back into the job market. When I take a step back out of the fantasy, I know I don't want to do that since in the long term another year or two of this would set me up much better. Meh. I'm going to try to take off next week and decompress a bit.
Gardening
What's the cheapest (preferably, free) way to start gardening on an apartment balcony? Any tips or links for getting started? I'd like to grow some food.
Re: mathiverse's journal
The 2018 fire season is one contributing reason why I'm not in CA at the moment - come to think of it, we were out of 2019 fire season too on purpose. I'll be interested to hear where you end up and the process of thinking it through. I have a number of friends who really enjoyed moving from the Bay to a "B" city - lower CoL, less aggressive hustle lifestyle, you could get in to a restaurant/cafe without booking online three weeks in advance...
Re: burnout - I sometimes had the fantasy of "just not caring so much". Continuing to work and pull the normal paycheck, just, be more checked out and less guilty about it. I only managed that attitude for up to a week.
Re: burnout - I sometimes had the fantasy of "just not caring so much". Continuing to work and pull the normal paycheck, just, be more checked out and less guilty about it. I only managed that attitude for up to a week.
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2Birds1Stone
- Posts: 1606
- Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:20 am
- Location: Earth
Re: mathiverse's journal
To offer a counter example, I pulled it off for ~2 years at megacorp and almost 9 months at insane startup.
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
I'll try to sit back and coast again. My team isn't deadline or deliverable driven, so maybe sticking to a short workday would help me get back to a happy equilibrium between work and non-work.
I guess I should remind myself that putting a lot into work (often to try to move up the promo timeline...) is probably one of the most heterotelic goals/desires I keep coming back to. I have coasted before, but I eventually feel a bit like I'm stagnating at work, then I try to push harder at work and everything non-work stagnates plus I usually edge toward burn out. I apparently have a short memory because I have definitely done this at least two or three times always ending up with me back in coasting mode. Maybe talking about it here will make it more likely that I remember to chill out and coast next time I get the urge to become more careerist.
I guess I should remind myself that putting a lot into work (often to try to move up the promo timeline...) is probably one of the most heterotelic goals/desires I keep coming back to. I have coasted before, but I eventually feel a bit like I'm stagnating at work, then I try to push harder at work and everything non-work stagnates plus I usually edge toward burn out. I apparently have a short memory because I have definitely done this at least two or three times always ending up with me back in coasting mode. Maybe talking about it here will make it more likely that I remember to chill out and coast next time I get the urge to become more careerist.
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
ERE Update
Completed
I'm back to coasting, but day to day I'm still so unhappy and unsatisfied. I am planning to take off on a long break for the winter holidays, so only two months until I get a long break to sort myself out.
During the long break I hope I recover whatever it is that I've lost as far as work motivation goes, however I will also work towards a Plan B in case I'm too far gone to salvage my motivation at this job. I wish I could quit right now, but I really should stay and get my next steps figured out first.
I'm jealous of all the people quitting or taking steps back lately (Scott 2, c_L, AxelHeyst, etc). I'm thinking about ways to either take a step back or at least take a long break in the next year. The fact I'm moving out of the Bay Area soon is helpful since my burn rate will decrease by going pretty much anywhere.
My overall thoughts on this situation are that I've been here before. I left my last job and previously dropped other pursuits with a similar feeling of disenchantment. Honestly noticing this issue around the time I left college is among the reasons FIRE seemed like a good fit for me. I can be satisfied at a pursuit, but apparently not for too long and I need some flexibility when the floor of motivation drops out from under me.
Ideally I can pull myself through this and not fall into the same pattern this time though. I think it'd be great to stay on my team in this company.
Option 1: New job at a new company
I'd want to have my next gig lined up before quitting my current one, so it would take a few months for me to find something new, then I'd quit. I don't think I'll semi-ERE and I can't retire, but taking a long break between jobs seems doable. This option would be awesome since I think I could swing 3 - 6 months off by setting my start date out a few months. Also I'd get a pay raise and potentially relocation money if I get an in-office job in a new locale. A break with something new to look forward might be all I need to get back in the groove until I'm really ERE.
Option 2: New project, same team, same company
I'll note a few months ago in some of these updates I was all fired up about work and my project, but now I don't want to do any of it. In particular, I've found the project is not what I expected and can't be made into what I wanted, so it's difficult to feel any passion for the project anymore.
Before my long break, I am going to try to figure out something new to do in my current team. Maybe I need a new project rather than a new team or company. I'm not seeing anything that appealing at the moment, but maybe something will catch my interest if I keep looking around.
I almost found something last week when exploring a new initiative another team is starting, but it looks like I'm too late to break off a piece of that project for myself.
Option 3: Part time, same project, same team, same company
Another option is going part time for my current team. I'm not completely sure my manager would go for it, but I think it's possible. There is already an official policy with the only real requirement being manager support.
Would only having a three or four day week be a good balance? I don't know. Probably a better balance if nothing else.
I feel like I should run the numbers here. I'd hate to cut my savings rate severely by going part time and getting the proportional pay cut (80% or 60%). It seems honestly like a waste. If I'm still working shouldn't I go for the maximum amount of money? Will it take me longer to get to FIRE this way? Will it take me longer to get to ERE? Getting to ERE might be shorter because I'd have more time and mental bandwidth for DIY type stuff I'm still trying to get into. However... I mean... but... money. I like the dollars. I feel like I should wait until I get to a certain amount of money before going part time. If I go part time, then I might end up quitting altogether or maybe I'll never be willing to go full time again in which case, did I save enough money from full time? Definitely not based on my expenses. Actually really I was thinking I should work full time until my expenses were at least under $20k a year which requires waiting until I move at the earliest.
Also my WFH situation is practically part time in terms of hours, why go officially part time? Actually I think the answer is clear here: lower expectations due being part time means I wouldn't have to worry about doing as much as a full time employee. Plus I will officially be out of office on particular days rather than having background stress about whether my manager is upset I'm not on chat enough or something like that.
Maybe this is what I need. Maybe the same team and project would be fine if it was only 3 days a week since I'd have time for all the other things I'd rather be doing. I'd also not fall into the pattern of having to leave under duress since maybe a better balance is all I need to get the joy back into this job.
Option 4: New team, same company
Finally I can leave this team, but stay at my company. That could give me a new interesting challenge which is usually refreshing for me. It seems more risky than staying in my current chill team though. What if I end up having to work 60 hours a week on the new team? I don't know.
Completed
- Researched container gardening
- Started a compost bin after researching
- Made turmeric rice twice
- Made Haitian epis
- Researched how to make homemade chicken broth, wrote down a recipe to try, and started collecting chicken bones
- Tried to make a sourdough starter (unsuccessful due to my unreliability as far as adding water and flour each day)
- Keep up with classwork
- Do enough at work to stay employed
- Plant some spinach in a container
- Make chicken broth
- Make turmeric rice again
- Train for a 10k
I'm back to coasting, but day to day I'm still so unhappy and unsatisfied. I am planning to take off on a long break for the winter holidays, so only two months until I get a long break to sort myself out.
During the long break I hope I recover whatever it is that I've lost as far as work motivation goes, however I will also work towards a Plan B in case I'm too far gone to salvage my motivation at this job. I wish I could quit right now, but I really should stay and get my next steps figured out first.
I'm jealous of all the people quitting or taking steps back lately (Scott 2, c_L, AxelHeyst, etc). I'm thinking about ways to either take a step back or at least take a long break in the next year. The fact I'm moving out of the Bay Area soon is helpful since my burn rate will decrease by going pretty much anywhere.
My overall thoughts on this situation are that I've been here before. I left my last job and previously dropped other pursuits with a similar feeling of disenchantment. Honestly noticing this issue around the time I left college is among the reasons FIRE seemed like a good fit for me. I can be satisfied at a pursuit, but apparently not for too long and I need some flexibility when the floor of motivation drops out from under me.
Ideally I can pull myself through this and not fall into the same pattern this time though. I think it'd be great to stay on my team in this company.
Option 1: New job at a new company
I'd want to have my next gig lined up before quitting my current one, so it would take a few months for me to find something new, then I'd quit. I don't think I'll semi-ERE and I can't retire, but taking a long break between jobs seems doable. This option would be awesome since I think I could swing 3 - 6 months off by setting my start date out a few months. Also I'd get a pay raise and potentially relocation money if I get an in-office job in a new locale. A break with something new to look forward might be all I need to get back in the groove until I'm really ERE.
Option 2: New project, same team, same company
I'll note a few months ago in some of these updates I was all fired up about work and my project, but now I don't want to do any of it. In particular, I've found the project is not what I expected and can't be made into what I wanted, so it's difficult to feel any passion for the project anymore.
Before my long break, I am going to try to figure out something new to do in my current team. Maybe I need a new project rather than a new team or company. I'm not seeing anything that appealing at the moment, but maybe something will catch my interest if I keep looking around.
I almost found something last week when exploring a new initiative another team is starting, but it looks like I'm too late to break off a piece of that project for myself.
Option 3: Part time, same project, same team, same company
Another option is going part time for my current team. I'm not completely sure my manager would go for it, but I think it's possible. There is already an official policy with the only real requirement being manager support.
Would only having a three or four day week be a good balance? I don't know. Probably a better balance if nothing else.
I feel like I should run the numbers here. I'd hate to cut my savings rate severely by going part time and getting the proportional pay cut (80% or 60%). It seems honestly like a waste. If I'm still working shouldn't I go for the maximum amount of money? Will it take me longer to get to FIRE this way? Will it take me longer to get to ERE? Getting to ERE might be shorter because I'd have more time and mental bandwidth for DIY type stuff I'm still trying to get into. However... I mean... but... money. I like the dollars. I feel like I should wait until I get to a certain amount of money before going part time. If I go part time, then I might end up quitting altogether or maybe I'll never be willing to go full time again in which case, did I save enough money from full time? Definitely not based on my expenses. Actually really I was thinking I should work full time until my expenses were at least under $20k a year which requires waiting until I move at the earliest.
Also my WFH situation is practically part time in terms of hours, why go officially part time? Actually I think the answer is clear here: lower expectations due being part time means I wouldn't have to worry about doing as much as a full time employee. Plus I will officially be out of office on particular days rather than having background stress about whether my manager is upset I'm not on chat enough or something like that.
Maybe this is what I need. Maybe the same team and project would be fine if it was only 3 days a week since I'd have time for all the other things I'd rather be doing. I'd also not fall into the pattern of having to leave under duress since maybe a better balance is all I need to get the joy back into this job.
Option 4: New team, same company
Finally I can leave this team, but stay at my company. That could give me a new interesting challenge which is usually refreshing for me. It seems more risky than staying in my current chill team though. What if I end up having to work 60 hours a week on the new team? I don't know.
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
Work Update
After thinking more about my situation, I think going part time is the move here. I'm going to speak to my manager about it next week in our regular meeting. I'll see how it goes.
EDIT: It isn't a forgone conclusion that I can get this approved, so I may have to go back to the drawing board in the event my management denies my request.
Pros
After thinking more about my situation, I think going part time is the move here. I'm going to speak to my manager about it next week in our regular meeting. I'll see how it goes.
EDIT: It isn't a forgone conclusion that I can get this approved, so I may have to go back to the drawing board in the event my management denies my request.
Pros
- No need to job search. Typically I study for a month or two before doing a job search, so avoiding that investment is great.
- Remain on a team with a known culture and work life balance. Great for finishing up my undergrad degree at night
- Four day weekends assuming I go down to 60%. I think the explicit expectation that I won't be working those two days will make it easier for me to relax with the lower expectations that accompany fewer working hours.
- Keep my benefits
- Option to go back full time on the same team if I realize I made a mistake or if I get reinvigorated
- Option to switch teams at this company is retained (possibly good for relocation purposes in the future; also no job interviews to switch teams within the company)
- More time for classes, DIY, and life in general
- Remain on the uninspiring team
- 60% of the pay
- Potentially less freedom to choose my projects
Last edited by mathiverse on Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
Hm, I noticed I suddenly got worried and fearful after confirming my decision and making the previous post. I sometimes wonder if I'm being too impulsive. I am planning to both make a big move and to go part time in the next six months. I've been itching to make a big change like this, however I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing. My expenses are still uncomfortably high and I'm not 100% sure I can live more ERE if I had more time. I think I can, but maybe what I'll find is that I stopped the flow of money, I still don't want to/am not able to adapt, and then end up spending down all my current savings and net worth shortly because I don't decrease my expenses like expected.
I guess it's fine. I'll certainly see the spending down of my assets happening and with my new free time I can either muster up the energy to do a real job search to hop back into a high paying full time role or go back to full time in my current position.
And if I'm completely objective my expenses have come down a lot, my largest expenses are because I haven't moved yet, and I'm also very good at interviewing once I've given it enough time, so in all likelihood I could get another job shortly if this plan doesn't work out.
EDIT: Also I'll note that I don't think I would be this close to making a move like this if I hadn't been regularly looking around the forum. It constantly makes me ask: Do I need this much money? What would happen if I just did the things I want to do later now? What do I have control over in my current circumstances? Do I have to wait or can I do it now? Why isn't this amount of money enough?
I think I also have to be careful because I'm not super frugal yet nor am I FIRE nor am I ERE. However, I find it so challenging to work full time that I think I ought to try out something else and I don't think I would have figured out a workable solution to trying something else now if I didn't have the useful examples around the forum.
Also I keep saying I spend a lot, so how can I do this, but I also make a lot, so I'd still have a positive savings rate even if I didn't lower my expenses much after going part time. If my expenses increased on the other hand, then I could have a problem compared to now where there is a lot more headroom.
EDIT: Also when I say ERE I mean I'd prefer to be Wheaton level 7+, but for now I'd say Wheaton level 4 headed to 5 is where I'm at. When I say I'm not FIRE I mean based on the 4% (or 3% or whatever) rule. I've made a lot of progress since I joined, but I have a lot more progress to make.
I guess it's fine. I'll certainly see the spending down of my assets happening and with my new free time I can either muster up the energy to do a real job search to hop back into a high paying full time role or go back to full time in my current position.
And if I'm completely objective my expenses have come down a lot, my largest expenses are because I haven't moved yet, and I'm also very good at interviewing once I've given it enough time, so in all likelihood I could get another job shortly if this plan doesn't work out.
EDIT: Also I'll note that I don't think I would be this close to making a move like this if I hadn't been regularly looking around the forum. It constantly makes me ask: Do I need this much money? What would happen if I just did the things I want to do later now? What do I have control over in my current circumstances? Do I have to wait or can I do it now? Why isn't this amount of money enough?
I think I also have to be careful because I'm not super frugal yet nor am I FIRE nor am I ERE. However, I find it so challenging to work full time that I think I ought to try out something else and I don't think I would have figured out a workable solution to trying something else now if I didn't have the useful examples around the forum.
Also I keep saying I spend a lot, so how can I do this, but I also make a lot, so I'd still have a positive savings rate even if I didn't lower my expenses much after going part time. If my expenses increased on the other hand, then I could have a problem compared to now where there is a lot more headroom.
EDIT: Also when I say ERE I mean I'd prefer to be Wheaton level 7+, but for now I'd say Wheaton level 4 headed to 5 is where I'm at. When I say I'm not FIRE I mean based on the 4% (or 3% or whatever) rule. I've made a lot of progress since I joined, but I have a lot more progress to make.
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mooretrees
- Posts: 764
- Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:21 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
I think the nervousness is justified, but can be worked with. I'm finding in my shift to part time work, that my thinking about work, money and time are also shifting. From what you've written earlier, you sound like moderation is not your natural speed? I suggest you pay attention to what makes you fearful and anxious about going part time. Sift through it and see what really is appropriate and what is related to a big change.
If you can maintain a positive savings rate while working part time and you have a healthy cushion, what are the true downsides to going part time? Also, I've found that big changes can inspire the most creative solutions. So, while going part time AND moving are two big changes, maybe those are also opportunities for really positive new habits and experiences?
I do find it hard to imagine that increased free time wouldn't contribute to you being able to lower your expense. You seem very motivated and you've done a lot in a short amount of time (composting, learning cooking, exercising) while working full time. Fear about an idea doesn't automatically mean it's a bad idea, just a challenging one.
I hope you figure it out.
If you can maintain a positive savings rate while working part time and you have a healthy cushion, what are the true downsides to going part time? Also, I've found that big changes can inspire the most creative solutions. So, while going part time AND moving are two big changes, maybe those are also opportunities for really positive new habits and experiences?
I do find it hard to imagine that increased free time wouldn't contribute to you being able to lower your expense. You seem very motivated and you've done a lot in a short amount of time (composting, learning cooking, exercising) while working full time. Fear about an idea doesn't automatically mean it's a bad idea, just a challenging one.
I hope you figure it out.
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classical_Liberal
- Posts: 2283
- Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am
Re: mathiverse's journal
...
Last edited by classical_Liberal on Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
Thanks for the advice and things to think about c_L and mooretrees!
Now for something completely different.
I plan to have a couple kids in a few years. In fact, being able to be particularly involved in the lives of my future kids is one motivation for wanting FI/ERE.
I went to good public schools my entire life since my parents ensured we were always in a good school district. I was also usually in the advanced and gifted/talented programs at each school. I learned a decent amount. I had a lot of extracurriculars. I got good grades. However, until going to a test-in science high school, I struggled to make friends, was teased, and even with the advanced classes felt school was a bit too slow/restrictive/boring. I think I would have enjoyed being homeschooled. I think I would have learned more faster while also having more free time for my interests outside of academics. And I also think my social skills would have been better had I been homeschooled since I wouldn't have lost so much confidence due to being teased as a kid. [Or maybe not, perhaps either way I would have had to learn the bulk of my social skills as an adult rather than as a kid.]
Given this experience, homeschooling seems pretty great. 1 on 1 instruction means kids will learn faster and better than I did in those nice public schools. Homeschooling takes less time to teach the same material, so the rest of the time the kids could be following whatever interests they have. I'll take my kids to homeschool co-ops, get them to do sports, and I'll live in a neighborhood with other kids around, etc, etc, so my kids can socialize enough. I'm pretty sold on homeschooling. I figure the kids can decide to go to a regular school for high school if they want to for whatever reason.
However, recently I learned about the concept of unschooling. Parents are attentive to their children's interests and help the kids discover what they want to learn about or explore and enable them to learn and explore those things similar to homeschooling. However, there is no curriculum, required classes or subjects, or required timelines on which the kids must learn any particular thing. Unschooling sounds really interesting and like something I would have enjoyed as a kid once I was in middle school or high school. As a parent, I'm not sure I could trust the process enough to unschool my kids from an early age. How can I be sure kids will learn useful and important skills on an adequate timeline? According to what I've read about unschooling so far kids will eventually learn to read when they'd like to whether that's at 4 years old or 10 years old. If a kid of mine preferred to take the scenic route of 10 years before learning to read, I doubt they'd make it there before I took over and taught them directly. On the other hand, unschooling means that perhaps the kids will take more advantage of their intrinsic drive to learn and become more self sufficient earlier. If a kid is driving what they do and learn from a young age without anyone deciding what's right for them to do will they end up more independent and confident? I'm not sure.
Thoughts on homeschooling and unschooling are welcome.
EDIT: typos
Now for something completely different.
I plan to have a couple kids in a few years. In fact, being able to be particularly involved in the lives of my future kids is one motivation for wanting FI/ERE.
I went to good public schools my entire life since my parents ensured we were always in a good school district. I was also usually in the advanced and gifted/talented programs at each school. I learned a decent amount. I had a lot of extracurriculars. I got good grades. However, until going to a test-in science high school, I struggled to make friends, was teased, and even with the advanced classes felt school was a bit too slow/restrictive/boring. I think I would have enjoyed being homeschooled. I think I would have learned more faster while also having more free time for my interests outside of academics. And I also think my social skills would have been better had I been homeschooled since I wouldn't have lost so much confidence due to being teased as a kid. [Or maybe not, perhaps either way I would have had to learn the bulk of my social skills as an adult rather than as a kid.]
Given this experience, homeschooling seems pretty great. 1 on 1 instruction means kids will learn faster and better than I did in those nice public schools. Homeschooling takes less time to teach the same material, so the rest of the time the kids could be following whatever interests they have. I'll take my kids to homeschool co-ops, get them to do sports, and I'll live in a neighborhood with other kids around, etc, etc, so my kids can socialize enough. I'm pretty sold on homeschooling. I figure the kids can decide to go to a regular school for high school if they want to for whatever reason.
However, recently I learned about the concept of unschooling. Parents are attentive to their children's interests and help the kids discover what they want to learn about or explore and enable them to learn and explore those things similar to homeschooling. However, there is no curriculum, required classes or subjects, or required timelines on which the kids must learn any particular thing. Unschooling sounds really interesting and like something I would have enjoyed as a kid once I was in middle school or high school. As a parent, I'm not sure I could trust the process enough to unschool my kids from an early age. How can I be sure kids will learn useful and important skills on an adequate timeline? According to what I've read about unschooling so far kids will eventually learn to read when they'd like to whether that's at 4 years old or 10 years old. If a kid of mine preferred to take the scenic route of 10 years before learning to read, I doubt they'd make it there before I took over and taught them directly. On the other hand, unschooling means that perhaps the kids will take more advantage of their intrinsic drive to learn and become more self sufficient earlier. If a kid is driving what they do and learn from a young age without anyone deciding what's right for them to do will they end up more independent and confident? I'm not sure.
Thoughts on homeschooling and unschooling are welcome.
EDIT: typos
Last edited by mathiverse on Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
Homeschooling and Learning to Teach
After reading a bunch more about homeschooling and unschooling, I'm definitely going to go with an homeschooling, leaning-unschooling approach with my future kids. However, I have some reservations about my own ability to teach people because I've only tried once to teach my younger sister some math back when I was in high school and the one session ended up with me yelling at my sister and storming away. LOL.
Coincidentally, on a family call a couple days ago, my younger sister told everyone she was having trouble with the online math class she's taking for high school. (Yes, the same sister haha.) I offered to pay for an online tutor at first, but then I offered to tutor her myself. Her class is very within my abilities, I'm older and more patient (it's been nearly a decade since that first and last session), and this time it's more voluntary (versus my parent kind of forcing me into trying all those years ago).
Anyway, we had a the first tutoring session this morning and it went great! We got through a bunch of problems. I was able to explain concepts that she hadn't fully understood which was surprising even to myself because I wasn't sure I could explain things to people given that I always picked things up naturally. And at the end of the session she said she came out more confident in her ability to do the rest of the work. We're going to have a session everyday for the next week or two to get her caught up, then we'll fall back to a slower pace once she's back on track. In my opinion, her main issue is merely focusing and time management given the online schooling situation rather than having trouble with the material, so I expect things to continue to go well. At her age, I failed a few online classes due to my own troubles with that, so I get it haha.
After reading a bunch more about homeschooling and unschooling, I'm definitely going to go with an homeschooling, leaning-unschooling approach with my future kids. However, I have some reservations about my own ability to teach people because I've only tried once to teach my younger sister some math back when I was in high school and the one session ended up with me yelling at my sister and storming away. LOL.
Coincidentally, on a family call a couple days ago, my younger sister told everyone she was having trouble with the online math class she's taking for high school. (Yes, the same sister haha.) I offered to pay for an online tutor at first, but then I offered to tutor her myself. Her class is very within my abilities, I'm older and more patient (it's been nearly a decade since that first and last session), and this time it's more voluntary (versus my parent kind of forcing me into trying all those years ago).
Anyway, we had a the first tutoring session this morning and it went great! We got through a bunch of problems. I was able to explain concepts that she hadn't fully understood which was surprising even to myself because I wasn't sure I could explain things to people given that I always picked things up naturally. And at the end of the session she said she came out more confident in her ability to do the rest of the work. We're going to have a session everyday for the next week or two to get her caught up, then we'll fall back to a slower pace once she's back on track. In my opinion, her main issue is merely focusing and time management given the online schooling situation rather than having trouble with the material, so I expect things to continue to go well. At her age, I failed a few online classes due to my own troubles with that, so I get it haha.
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classical_Liberal
- Posts: 2283
- Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am
Re: mathiverse's journal
...
Last edited by classical_Liberal on Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: mathiverse's journal
I was homeschooled k-12, *not* unschooled. I don't know if that was even a thing in the 90s. I *really* like the idea of unschooling. It almost makes me want to have kids, just so I could unschool or hybrid-homeschool them.
The nice thing about any kind of homeschooling done right, is that as the parentteacher, the amount of actual teaching you perform isn't much. Yes, it's quite a lot for the younger years, but it's almost totally hands-off by middle of junior high, certainly by high school. The skills necessary to be a traditional teacher and the skills necessary to be a good homeschool parent are very different. It's almost more like a guide and a provider of curriculum guidance.
Which isn't to say that it isn't a lot of work, I just think the work looks less like "teaching" than you might assume it would. Off the top of my head, the primary qualities you need are patience and an ability to understand that other people's minds work in different ways, and to learn to enjoy the process of figuring out how your kids minds work and cultivate a system that works for them, uniquely. AKA, you can't be a solipsist.
The nice thing about any kind of homeschooling done right, is that as the parentteacher, the amount of actual teaching you perform isn't much. Yes, it's quite a lot for the younger years, but it's almost totally hands-off by middle of junior high, certainly by high school. The skills necessary to be a traditional teacher and the skills necessary to be a good homeschool parent are very different. It's almost more like a guide and a provider of curriculum guidance.
Which isn't to say that it isn't a lot of work, I just think the work looks less like "teaching" than you might assume it would. Off the top of my head, the primary qualities you need are patience and an ability to understand that other people's minds work in different ways, and to learn to enjoy the process of figuring out how your kids minds work and cultivate a system that works for them, uniquely. AKA, you can't be a solipsist.
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
@c_L - Yeah. I also suspect I'd have trouble being satisfied allowing my children to go to a regular school. I also worry they won't fit in, be challenged, and other things due to my own poor experiences. I think I'd probably let my kids go to school if they asked later on though.
@AxelHeyst - Do you have regrets about being homeschooled? What were the parts you didn't care for? As I read more about homeschooling I found a set of formerly homeschooled adults who were upset their parents homeschooled them, so I'm curious if you have any part of the experience that you would change.
The typical reasons I came across for people disliking the fact they were homeschooled:
1) religious teaching the kids later did not follow [irrelevant for my situation as I'm not religious],
2) educational neglect - parents who kept their kids out of school, but didn't make sure they learned what they needed [I don't think I'd fall into this trap since I'm well educated and plan to be very hands-on/involved in my children's education], and
3) lack of socializing opportunities leading to difficulties in adulthood [totally relevant and something I've been thinking about a lot because I want to prevent this problem as much as I can].
Also, based on what I read, your last two paragraphs about homeschooling sound about right. I'd say I even saw that independence/ability to self teach in myself around middle school even though I went to public school.
EDIT: typos
@AxelHeyst - Do you have regrets about being homeschooled? What were the parts you didn't care for? As I read more about homeschooling I found a set of formerly homeschooled adults who were upset their parents homeschooled them, so I'm curious if you have any part of the experience that you would change.
The typical reasons I came across for people disliking the fact they were homeschooled:
1) religious teaching the kids later did not follow [irrelevant for my situation as I'm not religious],
2) educational neglect - parents who kept their kids out of school, but didn't make sure they learned what they needed [I don't think I'd fall into this trap since I'm well educated and plan to be very hands-on/involved in my children's education], and
3) lack of socializing opportunities leading to difficulties in adulthood [totally relevant and something I've been thinking about a lot because I want to prevent this problem as much as I can].
Also, based on what I read, your last two paragraphs about homeschooling sound about right. I'd say I even saw that independence/ability to self teach in myself around middle school even though I went to public school.
EDIT: typos
Last edited by mathiverse on Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: mathiverse's journal
ERE Update
I've been eating out a lot lately and I also recently bought a lot of French language learning workbooks. Otherwise, expenses have still been low overall. So not great, but not bad.
I haven't been able to balance work, school, and everything else very well lately. I've spent a lot in response on language learning books. :/ I'm definitely a stress spender even beyond "buying time" by eating out. I'm also about a month behind in tracking expenses. I normally note every transaction in my spreadsheet. I can catch up on that later since I pay for everything with credit card. It's annoying to get behind though.
Fortunately, I have a month long break from work! I have a few more weeks of classes, then I have about two weeks off from classes and work. Perfect to destress, figure out some better habits, and also get some new motivation for the new year!
Location Update
I'm moving away from the Bay Area! I'm moving to a lower cost of living place on the east coast. Still HCOL compared to most of the US, but I should be able to spend half as much money in rent in the new city and rent is my biggest expense. It will also be significantly cheaper for me to go home to see my family each year, so my yearly expenses will drop due to that as well. My last week in the Bay Area is the last week of December. I'm very happy to be getting outta here!
I'm also going to be selling my car before I move. My SO already sold their car. My SO is planning to get a new car once we get to the new city and we will split expenses and share it. This will be another reduction in expenses for me and my SO since we both owned a car in the Bay Area.
Work Update
I'm going down to four day weeks starting the second week in January! I hope to use the extra time to do homework for classes, to exercise more, and to do more ERE things (gardening?). I hope to have a generally lower level of stress with this new schedule.
EDIT: Added a bit
I've been eating out a lot lately and I also recently bought a lot of French language learning workbooks. Otherwise, expenses have still been low overall. So not great, but not bad.
I haven't been able to balance work, school, and everything else very well lately. I've spent a lot in response on language learning books. :/ I'm definitely a stress spender even beyond "buying time" by eating out. I'm also about a month behind in tracking expenses. I normally note every transaction in my spreadsheet. I can catch up on that later since I pay for everything with credit card. It's annoying to get behind though.
Fortunately, I have a month long break from work! I have a few more weeks of classes, then I have about two weeks off from classes and work. Perfect to destress, figure out some better habits, and also get some new motivation for the new year!
Location Update
I'm moving away from the Bay Area! I'm moving to a lower cost of living place on the east coast. Still HCOL compared to most of the US, but I should be able to spend half as much money in rent in the new city and rent is my biggest expense. It will also be significantly cheaper for me to go home to see my family each year, so my yearly expenses will drop due to that as well. My last week in the Bay Area is the last week of December. I'm very happy to be getting outta here!
I'm also going to be selling my car before I move. My SO already sold their car. My SO is planning to get a new car once we get to the new city and we will split expenses and share it. This will be another reduction in expenses for me and my SO since we both owned a car in the Bay Area.
Work Update
I'm going down to four day weeks starting the second week in January! I hope to use the extra time to do homework for classes, to exercise more, and to do more ERE things (gardening?). I hope to have a generally lower level of stress with this new schedule.
EDIT: Added a bit
Re: mathiverse's journal
Nice, congrats on the impending move and work situation! I'll be interested to hear your thoughts as you adjust and move through the new circumstances.
1) I was raised/homeschooled partly due to religious reasons. I "learned" that the earth is 6000 years old, for example, and was taught to accept a literal interpretation of the Bible. I now consider myself "not a Christian" and have rejected Creationism and all that. But I don't regret that aspect of my education at all, because I have an understanding of what it's like to believe something very, very strongly, and then change my mind about it and believe basically the opposite. My political alignments went through a similar polarity reversal. I find that people who haven't gone through a shift like this only poorly understand how people can believe "crazy things", and often lack any compassion. I happen to know exactly one way a person can reach adulthood still in possession of some very strongly held, and crazy, beliefs. My understanding and compassion enables me to engage people like that in a way other people can't. I also hold all of my current beliefs much looser than many people, I find, because I've gone through the process of realizing everything I thought was true probably actually wasn't at all, and is in fact a bit loony. That really builds some intellectual humility.
Interestingly, I feel like while my parents taught me Creationism etc, they also (as an integral part of homeschooling philosophy and practice) taught me to question accepted wisdom and to seek my own answers. So while maybe they raised me in a certain kind of box, they also taught me to pick the lock. And I've since used that lock-picking skill in so many ways, so I find it impossible to get worked up over it.
2) My parents (mostly my mom) did a great job academically. I got solid SAT/ACT scores and got in to the university I wanted.
3) Lack of socializing opportunities. This is the big one, and yeah, I dropped in to my first year at college with atrocious social skills. My parents tried to socialize us, but, I mean, we lived in a mountain pass 35 miles from the nearest town. There was only so much they could do, and both of them are almost hermits in their desired level of social interaction, so they saw what they were doing as perfectly adequate probably. The thing is, they also gave me the tools, via homeschooling, to solve the problem myself. I bought a bunch of books on how to socialize, talk to the desired sex, and basically built a homeschool curriculum for developing social skills. I was fine by the time I graduated college, and now consider myself (with some situational exceptions) above average in social skills.
The main argument in favor of homeschooling in this regard is that yeah, in public schools you'll get "socialized", but to what norm? As a parent, you relinquish to a large degree the ability to guide and cultivate the social environments your children experience. As a homeschool parent, you can socialize your kid with more intention. Most public school kids are only used to socializing with their own age group: as a homeschooler, you're much more exposed to a broad range of ages.
I suppose if a parent's concern is that their kid "fit in well", homeschooling is not a good option. You're going to be a little weird no matter what if you homeschool because you're going to avoid normalizing pressures of conventional schooling. If the quote "It is no sign of health to be well adapted to a fundamentally sick society" gives any tingles at all for you, then you probably *want* your kid to be a little weird anyways.
I don't have any regrets about being homeschooled, partly because I just really like my life and regretting part of my path seems sort of misplaced, but based on my experience I would do it a little different.mathiverse wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:13 pm@AxelHeyst - Do you have regrets about being homeschooled? What were the parts you didn't care for? As I read more about homeschooling I found a set of formerly homeschooled adults who were upset their parents homeschooled them, so I'm curious if you have any part of the experience that you would change.
The typical reasons I came across for people disliking the fact they were homeschooled:
1) religious teaching the kids later did not follow [irrelevant for my situation as I'm not religious],
2) educational neglect - parents who kept their kids out of school, but didn't make sure they learned what they needed [I don't think I'd fall into this trap since I'm well educated and plan to be very hands-on/involved in my children's education], and
3) lack of socializing opportunities leading to difficulties in adulthood [totally relevant and something I've been thinking about a lot because I want to prevent this problem as much as I can].
1) I was raised/homeschooled partly due to religious reasons. I "learned" that the earth is 6000 years old, for example, and was taught to accept a literal interpretation of the Bible. I now consider myself "not a Christian" and have rejected Creationism and all that. But I don't regret that aspect of my education at all, because I have an understanding of what it's like to believe something very, very strongly, and then change my mind about it and believe basically the opposite. My political alignments went through a similar polarity reversal. I find that people who haven't gone through a shift like this only poorly understand how people can believe "crazy things", and often lack any compassion. I happen to know exactly one way a person can reach adulthood still in possession of some very strongly held, and crazy, beliefs. My understanding and compassion enables me to engage people like that in a way other people can't. I also hold all of my current beliefs much looser than many people, I find, because I've gone through the process of realizing everything I thought was true probably actually wasn't at all, and is in fact a bit loony. That really builds some intellectual humility.
Interestingly, I feel like while my parents taught me Creationism etc, they also (as an integral part of homeschooling philosophy and practice) taught me to question accepted wisdom and to seek my own answers. So while maybe they raised me in a certain kind of box, they also taught me to pick the lock. And I've since used that lock-picking skill in so many ways, so I find it impossible to get worked up over it.
2) My parents (mostly my mom) did a great job academically. I got solid SAT/ACT scores and got in to the university I wanted.
3) Lack of socializing opportunities. This is the big one, and yeah, I dropped in to my first year at college with atrocious social skills. My parents tried to socialize us, but, I mean, we lived in a mountain pass 35 miles from the nearest town. There was only so much they could do, and both of them are almost hermits in their desired level of social interaction, so they saw what they were doing as perfectly adequate probably. The thing is, they also gave me the tools, via homeschooling, to solve the problem myself. I bought a bunch of books on how to socialize, talk to the desired sex, and basically built a homeschool curriculum for developing social skills. I was fine by the time I graduated college, and now consider myself (with some situational exceptions) above average in social skills.
The main argument in favor of homeschooling in this regard is that yeah, in public schools you'll get "socialized", but to what norm? As a parent, you relinquish to a large degree the ability to guide and cultivate the social environments your children experience. As a homeschool parent, you can socialize your kid with more intention. Most public school kids are only used to socializing with their own age group: as a homeschooler, you're much more exposed to a broad range of ages.
I suppose if a parent's concern is that their kid "fit in well", homeschooling is not a good option. You're going to be a little weird no matter what if you homeschool because you're going to avoid normalizing pressures of conventional schooling. If the quote "It is no sign of health to be well adapted to a fundamentally sick society" gives any tingles at all for you, then you probably *want* your kid to be a little weird anyways.