Updated Cognitive Function Model

What skills to learn, what tools to get
7Wannabe5
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:09 am

ENTP's would be even more likely to get carried away, hence Ne>Ti would increase the likelihood of seeing something that isn't there (false-positive). Though, ENTP's would still be the best type at general pattern-matching on topics they are not an expert in. If that makes sense.
Yes, it does. For example, I decided that I will be satisfied for the moment by completing my analogy with "Therefore, the empty pews in today's England are indicative of definite possibility that representative democracy as we know it will no longer exist in 22nd century due to further development of AI controlled tech-onomy." Thus, combining my less than micro-master level of expertise in at least 4 or 5 major fields into one marvelously extravagant prediction :lol:

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:06 pm

Brief update:

Took a tangent from making a typing guide to building more formal foundations. There is a whole lot of fitting to be done, but for now I am working on a flexible model that anyone can tune themselves. Here are some basic associations I am looking at:

sensation : overlapping fields : relative distances can exist : locally euclidean with emergent [possibly different] topology

intuition : graphs/networks on fields : nodes and vertices exist : distances do not exist

thinking : cycles/circuits in graphs/networks : direction exist : simple example is equality (two-way direction between two nodes)

feeling : attractors/repulsors are nodes in cycle/circuit : attracted points tend to join and repulsed points tend to split cycles/circuits forward in time

-------
extroversion : plural
introversion : singular

So, Ti is a singular circuit that tends to look fractal-like when developed. In other words, it is a large-world network where the number of connections between nodes is maximized to improve accuracy in the event of deviation error (hence cortical columns and brain folding). Ni is a small-world network where all nodes are within a few connections of each other (hence DMN).

All of these structures have rigorous definitions from math, physics, and computer science. Now I am working on developing a standard procedure for fitting such structures to common situations and lifestyles. Also working on the dynamics of it all such as cascades and topology changes to better understand stability. At the same time, I am looking more into brain physiology to find parallels.

Scale is challenging to deal with, so I figure it is sometimes best to consider three separate levels:
Micro : neurons and axons : atomic distinctions and associations in sensation
Meso : brain circuits and cortical columns : tasks and representations : my primary focus
Macro : brain regions and pathways : activation of bodily systems

Nuuka
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:22 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by Nuuka » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:05 am

daylen wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:56 am
Some background information

There are three or four primary periods of life that contribute differently to the development of personality (I will stick with three here for simplicity):

1. Birth - Puberty: This stage has a complex relationship with personality. In general, if the child is well cared for and all their needs are satisfied, then the effect of this period on personality is minor relative to the next stage. Trauma and Mal-nourishment may lead to certain life outcomes that influence personality.
I intuitively disagree with the oversimplicity of the above Birth - Puberty phase description. I believe development start pre-birth in woomb already. I believe the child boots the environment (i.e. finds the memory, sensors, then limbs, then the environment actors who consistently respond stimuli (mother?), then to learns relationship self vs environment. Then birth comes and life outside woomb arrives with new set of sensors, and responses for stimuli. Child In this phase starts to process muscleposition-balance-tactile-audio-visual information with requires higher amounts of information flow, processing, selection what to memorize. During this phase child needs to develop scheme for interleaving and allocating processing of the data to the brain resources. This interleaving and allocation scheme is related to the the personality type the child assumes. After that the development of communication channels to environment starts, i.e. language, interpretation of signs, recognition between stationary and live objects, interpretation of state of live objects, interaction with live objects. Building of memory model of the stationary environment. Building of the memory model of the live objects. Building rudimentary memory model of self as related to stationary and live objects. At this phase the intro/extroversion tendency develops.

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:48 am

It was a relative description, therefore invalidation requires a relative response (to second phase). I do not disagree that it is complex. Partially, the overview was framed to mitigate attention spent on more deterministic processes that are not easily modified with cultural programs. Agents in phase two are more susceptible to such uploads.

Nuuka
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:22 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by Nuuka » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:16 am

I believe Montessori pedagogy addresses this phase 1.

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:51 am

The semantics have many roots for me so I am not going to try to give a definition that will lead to more loose ends. I am not all that interested in expanding upon this topic at the moment.

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:12 pm

INTJ's do not distinguish work from play and INTP's do not distinguish practice from theory. I sort of got off track on the other thread, so I will continue here. Nuuka's previous questions that were deleted are partially answered in the other thread.

Anyway, I want to touch again on Jacob's first question:
1) Does personality exist in a vacuum? Like if you're the last person in the universe (alternative on a solo space mission), does your personality stack still persist/exist?

My previous answer pointed to what I call agency, but I am starting to think that the relationship between agency and personality in my mind is more like a dialectic. I use each other to help root each other. Perhaps I focus more on universalizing personality and contextualizing agency. This could also go the other way where agency becomes universal and personality contextual. Either way there exist an elaborate symmetry that is redundant yet provides a definitional engine. As long as each frame is kept partially separate, partial foundations of one frame can be generated by pointing to the other frame. Roots are an illusion, ideas circulate. I have thought about this for a while but not with respect to personality and agency in my own mind.

So, I suppose this is Kegan5 .... or just my Ti projecting? :mrgreen:

Now, I will subconsciously find something else to point to.

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:01 pm

I am dabbling with the relationship between agency and personality. Perhaps a non-linear, elaborate correspondence between them is warranted. This has been considered briefly in the "In Over Our Heads" thread. If Kegan4 is the development of a single [primary] personality, then Kegan5 is the development of many [peripheral] personalities that are modulated by the original, primary personality.

The primary personality has a mutually exclusive macro-structure in the brain, and several peripheral personality meso-structures can be triggered in mutually exclusive [or hierarchical] contexts. Hence, the meso-structures are still dependent upon the overarching macro-structure, but in a limited context they can appear to emulate alternative macro-structures.

Hence, Kegan2 personality is distorted by signals from the primitive biological engine; Kegan3 personality is distorted by signals from the social biological engine; Kegan4 personality is minimally distorted; and Kegan5 personality is distorted by context.

All behavior/language signals are distorted by micro-structure which is commonly thought of as the "content" as opposed to the "form". Accurate typing requires extracting the personality signal from noise produced by content and agency. This abstraction will help me outline a typing procedure.

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:48 am

The most basic unit of culture is a concept, meme, or symbolic difference that makes a difference. Though, how can differences in outcome be tested against initial differences in absence of an ability to duplicate such initial conditions? I try to focus on individual humans partly because emergent social synchronization is messy and controversial, but also because individual variation within a population is greater than variation between populations in my personal estimate. It very well may be the case that population-level distinctions directed by evolutionary linguistics could reveal/construct striking implications concerning the effect of language on thought, but I think it is hard to validate such claims generated in this way. Down-scaled experiments can be performed on micro-associations and psychology has been doing just this, but how exactly such insights can be extrapolated to entire languages is difficult, if not hopeless.

Not to mention the highly controversial paths that such an analysis can lead to given that genes tend to migrate less than memes. Hopefully, we can retain the lessons of the 20th century for the foreseeable future. The distinction of how humans utilize language relative to the rest of the animal kingdom is already ammunition enough to think ourselves separate and superior to it.

Yet, despite all these warning signs I am looking more into linguistics to see how such frames are setup. Language is partly embodied with inherited programs of association explosions that allow children to easily link labels to concrete concepts such as 'human', 'cat', and 'rock' with little trouble correctly identifying all such members in a category from a single encounter. More abstract conceptualizations are easier to mislabel, so the individual is reliant on their more innate meaning-making programs to interpret such a conceptualization. Either, the individual turns towards basic [obvious only in retrospect] embodied metaphors as is the case with the development of mathematics, or the individual synchronizations with other such humans in the immediate environment following whatever collective-will emerges from the depths.

I do not have much point in expressing all this except to warn against biological ignorance and to suggest an application of personality in attempting to alleviate some ideological certainty innate in each of us. Perhaps consciousness exist to fire the trigger that sets off deterministic circuits that would disgust the culprit at any other point in their sober slumber. A map, even a crude one, may allow such agents to override these triggers or at least prepare for them. On the other hand, perhaps maps themselves are the eventual demise of life on planet earth, yet I am not willing to act on such a vision and will continue cheering on humanity even after their peak as this is the will of my programming.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:13 am

then Kegan5 is the development of many [peripheral] personalities that are modulated by the original, primary personality.

The primary personality has a mutually exclusive macro-structure in the brain, and several peripheral personality meso-structures can be triggered in mutually exclusive [or hierarchical] contexts. Hence, the meso-structures are still dependent upon the overarching macro-structure, but in a limited context they can appear to emulate alternative macro-structures.
How or where does this apply to the sort of behavior/functioning I am exhibiting when I do something like work at being more authoritative in a classroom setting or play at being dumb blonde* in a social setting.

* C or D league version of:
"I'll never forget the day Marilyn and I were walking around New York City, just having a stroll on a nice day. She loved New York because no one bothered her there like they did in Hollywood, she could put on her plain-jane clothes and no one would notice her. She loved that.

So as we we're walking down Broadway, she turns to me and says 'Do you want to see me become her?'

I didn't know what she meant but I just said 'Yes'- and then I saw it.

I don't know how to explain what she did because it was so very subtle, but she turned something on within herself that was almost like magic. And suddenly cars were slowing and people were turning their heads and stopping to stare. They were recognizing that this was Marilyn Monroe as if she pulled off a mask or something, even though a second ago nobody noticed her.

I had never seen anything like it before."

~ Amy Greene, wife of Marilyn's personal photographer Milton Green
https://www.sunnyskyz.com/blog/2610/No- ... ecome-Her-

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:28 am

@7w5 My thinking is that personality and philosophy both attempt to describe frames individual humans develop throughout their lives. Kegan4 is an understanding of the self; an ability to frame how scarce resources can be allocated towards learning skills [or something]. This requires what I am going to call primary frame integration. Primary frame disintegration has been called many other names such as an 'existential crisis' and categorized into 'mental disorders' that do not have apparent physiological causes.

Changing personality or philosophy would require complete primary frame disintegration because of the path-dependent property of complex systems. Even an ego death or dissolution is not enough. Probably cannot be done without a literal death, just as companies or cities cannot easily alter their culture.

What I mean by modulation can be demonstrated with a metaphor. The primary frame is like the electrical system of a city. Such a system of circuits can be sent into cascading failure due to one bad node. Though, if done right, the city can emulate the electrical system of a smaller city by modulating a subset of the circuit architecture with the complementary set while remaining integrated.

This can be done to act 'differently' in different situations without actually using a different brain. Peripheral frames could be thought to 'turn down' certain aspects of the primary frame in order to better utilize resources in a given situation.
Last edited by daylen on Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:43 am

So, acting more authoritative or dumb would require turning down your innate desire to avoid prolonged leadership and value life-long learning. Those parts are still there, but their use frequency is being modulated by context.

This is going to start getting into harmonic analysis. The really fun stuff.

User avatar
fiby41
Posts: 1066
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:09 am
Location: India

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by fiby41 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:59 pm

Nuuka wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:05 am
I intuitively disagree with the oversimplicity of the above Birth - Puberty phase description. I believe development start pre-birth in woomb already.
Abhimanyu learnt how to enter a Chakraview when his father narrated his experience to his mother whilst Abhimanyu was still in the womb. Chakraview is a military formation of getting encircled. However, his mother fell asleep before the narration could be completed. Seeing her asleep, his father stopped the narration abruptly. During the Kurukshetra war his uncle was reluctant in allowing him to penetrate the enemy's Chakraview, but as the conditions turned bleak, Abhimanyu was finally granted permission on the thirteenth day. Not knowing how to exit the Chakraview, he perished under a coordinated onslaught, sixteen years old.
Who is at fault here depends on your personality type.

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:05 pm

To be clear, when I say birth, I mean the earliest moment in time a system can be pointed to as a whole and named. Like with the aid of an ultrasound.

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:52 am

So to be consistent with what I wrote in the other thread, the introverted function in one of the first two slots is what dictates the overall structure of the primary frame. By extension, perhaps the third or forth slot introverted function is a prime candidate for the first peripheral frame.

The extroverted functions split or disintegrate frames to possibly allow them to grow/expand. A dualism is the simplest and perhaps safest method of doing this as two parts can be integrated back together into a whole easier than three or more.

So, an ENTP and an INTP have the same primary frame (in this model) yet differ in how much holistic integration is required. Therefore this model divides into four primary frames each with two possible supporting/extroverted/growth functions for a total of eight primary-support frame combinations.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:44 pm

I am almost following you. When I attempt to exert authority in a classroom setting, I have to be very much in the here and now, and also more rule-oriented, so it seems like I am trying to bring forth more S and J than I naturally prefer/possess. This wears me out very quickly. OTOH, when I am "playing dumb" (or relaxing in my feminine energy if I describe it as positive function) I think it is more like going from eNTP to iNfP for me, and this is easier/not as grueling or unpleasant.

Probably I am making a mish-mash of this, because it just occurred to me that my fourth introverted slot Si does have to do with sensuality which I often confuse with feeling =emotion, because English language does that too.

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:46 am

Fe more easily adapts to a wider variety of social situations than any other function. Si needs to be trained, but after a task is completed once it will start minimizing inflow of environmental information necessary to complete it repeatedly.

Together, Fe seeks new social cues and responses, while Si develops procedures using these cues and executes them in a responsive manner.

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:51 am

Been down an interesting rabbit hole so far tonight. This is more or less how I study. Each time I dig just a little bit deeper into a variety of topics I have considered for years.

trade unions -> right-to-work law -> free-rider problem -> union security agreements -> excludable goods -> principle-agent problem -> social sanctions and asymmetric information -> altruism and Dunbar's number -> back to frame disintegration

Such topics lead me to wonder if my developing theory of frames and their properties can explain why some problems are perpetual. Proposed solutions to problems involving the collective behavior of agents have been traditionally founded on the assumption of self-interest, and behavioral economics is now focused on irrationality. The bridge requires something like incomplete self-information which is really just a [mirrored] redundancy of incomplete environmental-information. The only distinction between the universe and the psych is the one being made in a frame. Frame disintegration allows for the integration of observable selfish and collective interest alike.

Albeit, the inverse is also true, hence internal versus external integration is just a pivot point that allows leveraging. Every level or pivot position of existence is required to construct/discover the map/puzzle, and the completion could hypothetically produce paradoxes that have been realized in some form with mathematics. It is an engaging project nevertheless, and I cannot imagine myself or anyone else not engaging with it in some form (yet maybe I can? :D ).

internal vs external, extroversion vs introversion, integration vs disintegration, association vs disassociation, positive vs negative, good vs evil, universe vs individual, tit vs tat, monism vs dualism.........

Where to next? Maybe American history/law.

daylen
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:17 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by daylen » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:54 am

The history of schizophrenia probably overlaps with the history of humans with INTP'ish frames talking to themselves out-loud to maintain internal integration at the expense of appearing externally disintegrated/fragmented/confused/inconsistent.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Updated Cognitive Function Model

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:10 pm

No. Extreme INTP frame is like a computer not offering great, friendly external interface while it downloads and installs a large program. Schizophrenia is more like a television playing static then high volume laugh track for 5 minutes then 2 minutes of Kennedy assassination on half speed loop then static again then few minutes of lucid conversation then emergency broadcast signal then static again...

Post Reply