The soft coup against US President Trump

[technohead]

Buzzfeed.com did a hit job claiming President Trump directed his lawyer Cohen to lie to congress about his business activities in Russia.

The two "journalists" who co wrote the report gave contradictory answers to queries about verification of their sources. Mueller's office has now been forced to make a statement denying the allegations, calling them inaccurate.

Blitzing the population with this Fake News, you can bet the news/entertainment industry will give little if any coverage of the debunking.

I can see the USA heading into Civil War 2.0 in the not too distant future.

[IlliniDave]

I thought it was interesting that for the first time (first time I can recall) Mueller's office came out with a statement contradicting an aspect of the, uh, narrative of questionable veracity being spun by certain outlets who are apparently being fed information from the "inside". Interesting because it comes on the eve of him getting a new boss who sounds like he is not going to play the game.

I get that a contingent of people dislike Trump, but a much worse outcome than Trump serving out the balance of his elected term is the un-elected elements of the gov't (aka deep state) seizing control from the elected constitutional side.

[jacob]

Blitzing the population with this Fake News, you can bet the news/entertainment industry will give little if any coverage of the debunking.

Eh, given what a game changer(*) it would be, of course everybody covered it, but [even] CNN was skeptical about it. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/media/bu ... index.html

Also noting that it came right on the heels of Giuliani's moving the goal posts back on the Russia collusion once again, priming the pump for something big, so the reaction was plausible. There's a lot of smoke with this presidency and ~2/3 of the population want to see some fire, so of course people are looking.

(*) And in that regard, Buzzfeed should also have held themselves to a higher standard (they do have a reputation of being kinda hit and miss---they apparently prefer to be first rather than correct?!). That they didn't caused Team Mueller to come out with a clarification.

But soft coup? Ehh... that doesn't really fit the dictionary description in this case. In order for that [coup?!] to work the reporting would actually have to be true and then there would be a legal (evidence-driven) [impeachment] process which contradicts the definition of what a [soft] coup is.

PS: I highly recommend https://www.memeorandum.com/ to see who is covering what and how. The existence of echo chambers and bubbles is quite apparent.

[chicago81]

The thing I'm eagerly waiting to find out, is...

if Mueller's office was so quick to come out to refute this report from BuzzFeed.... does that mean a significant portion of "the other stuff that has been reported/said/speculated-on by all kinds of sources" has a lot of truth to it?

[IlliniDave]

chicago81, we'll see when/if any sort of report comes out. A lot of people are waiting to see, and no matter what, a lot of people will be disappointed.

As far as former stuff that has potentially leaked from the investigation and not been commented on--it is possible there was some veracity, but it's also possible that they were false plants and with Rosenstein as the de-facto AG there was no motivation to set the record straight.

A disclaimer that I should include with all comments is that I am biased in the sense I am mistrustful of the federal gov't, especially those who operate in DC.

[BRUTE]

we'll see when/if any sort of report comes out.

how long has that investigation been going on for now?

[IlliniDave]

how long has that investigation been going on for now?

I don't think anyone knows for sure. The Mueller investigation has been around for 19 or 20 months. But the gang of mostly now fired FBI guys were using the counterintelligence apparatus perhaps a year longer than that (around the time it was becoming likely he'd get the nomination). Unfortunately "counterintelligence" is a talisman to do things in secrecy. The IG in Justice is investigating that, at least the FISA warrants, but we may never know what he finds. CIA was involved as well before the election, but I don't think there is anyone with effective oversight on them, so unless a wistleblower appears ...

[jennypenny]

if Mueller's office was so quick to come out to refute this report from BuzzFeed.... does that mean a significant portion of "the other stuff that has been reported/said/speculated-on by all kinds of sources" has a lot of truth to it?

I believe the main reason Mueller's office publicly disputed the Buzzfeed report, and used the language it did in its rebuttal, was to make clear that no one on the Mueller team was the source of the leak. I'm not discounting their statement that the reporting was inaccurate based on the evidence in Mueller's possession, but IMO the leak issue is what prompted the quick and rare response. I don't think much can be inferred about the validity of other accusations or reporting from their statement.

[George the original one]

Buzzfeed is considered mainstream and reliable? Really?

[Campitor]

Regardless of the veracity of the report and its quick debunkment, it's evident that media (left and right) are active participants in ideological propaganda. From the frequency of negative stories, to the music, words, lighting, and pictures used in the reporting, the media is strongly manipulating the public in a very impactful way.

Goebbels would be proud on how effective and co opted the American media has become. I think part of the problem is the consolidation of media ownership. Media has become a monopoly and a continuous stream of disinformation - it's not sufficient to report the truth but to avoid the sin of omission, i.e., only showing 1 side or the incomplete side of a story.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle - Tzun Tzu

Biased citizens don't realize their media of preference is their enemy. And even worse, the average citizen doesn't engage in deep thought and introspection which means they don't know themselves. We are currently engaged in a drunken brawl of disinformation and the sad part there's only 1 person in the ring; the left fist is punching the ride side of the face while the right fist punches the left side of the face - each fist is claiming victory while the body is pounded into hamburger.

[Tyler9000]

Buzzfeed is considered mainstream and reliable? Really?

These days, anyone who says what you want to hear deserves a Pulitzer and anyone who says what you do not is somehow compromised. Pack mentality has destroyed all critical thinking even among the professional media.

[jacob]

Another problem is the [increasing?] existence of "information dieters" which helps propaganda to thrive. I understand why people are tired of all the news and stop following it because it doesn't contribute to their own personal life in the here and now. However, being deliberately uninformed is also destructive to the democratic process when so many people are tuning out. Ignorance is bliss doesn't work in the long term because reality eventually catches up.

Being unable to put things into context makes it much easier for BS to spread. It's also hard to revert as people think themselves well-informed regardless because the standards for information processing are so low (e.g. "I think myself well-informed because I read ALL the news on facebook!").

There might still be thinking but when it's based on very little contextual information, it's Garbage-In-Garbage-Out thinking.

[Seppia]

When trump supporters accept the fact that he lies with every other statement he makes, yet are quick to whine and blame the "fake news" mainstream media for every misstep, grouping gossip sites together with real serious media outlets, trump has won.

Enough with this false equivalence of grouping all "mainstream media" in the same bucket.

Bloomberg doesn't write "fake news", the Wall Street journal doesn't write "fake news".
Buzzfeed is a gossip site, how can one group it with the other two?
(Edited to tone it down a notch, sorry)

[Campitor]

Why does the government try to control media access if it's not important to control the narrative? Every news media outlet has an agenda even if it's trying to act in the public's self interest. Yes the media is a problem - they all have biases even if their moderate biases. Reporting accurate facts isn't enough unless you're publishing ALL the facts pertinent to a discussion.

I'm not a Trump supporter but to absolve the media's complicity (left and right) in his ascendency is politically naive. Media is often called the 4th branch of government for a reason. And nepotism is deplorable regardless if it's Trump hiring family or Clinton putting his 1st lady in charge of fixing healthcare, or JFK's brother being the US Attorney General. And if they aren't hiring family, they are hiring friends: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html

• Fox News (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fox-news/): Overall, we rate Fox News strongly Right-Biased due to wording and story selection that favors the right and Mixed factually based on poor sourcing and the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be retracted after being widely shared.
• Bloomberg (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bloomberg/): Overall, we rate Bloomberg Left-Center biased due to story selection that slightly favors the left and factually high due to proper sourcing.
• WSJ (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/wall-street-journal/): Overall, we rate the Wall Street Journal Right-Center biased due to low biased news reporting in combination with a strongly right biased editorial stance. We also rate them factually Mixed due to anti-climate, anti-science stances and misleading editorials.
• CNN (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cnn/): Overall, we rate CNN left biased based on story selection that often favors the left. We rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to misinformation and failed fact checks from guests and pundits. However, CNN’s straight news reporting would earn a High rating for factual reporting.
• RT NEWS (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/rt-news/): Overall, we rate RT Questionable based on promoting pro-Russian propaganda, promotion of conspiracy theories, numerous failed fact checks and a lack of author transparency.

[Seppia]

I never said media is unimportant or doesn't shape the narrative.
I just said using a gossip site misstep to attack all the non-Trump-supporting media grouping them together is wrong.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote*, I don't see how it contradicts my point.
Also, I see very important differences between the characterizations of Fox News ("strongly right biased") and RT (questionable, promotion of conspiracy theories") vs Bloomberg for example ("slightly favors the left"), often grouped in the "FAKE NEWS" chauldron.




*except for "the media is a problem" - only strongly biased or questionable/clear propaganda media outlets are

[Campitor]

@Seppia

Because even a slight bias can have exponential results when it's projected out across a large swath of the population. The slight biases of the moderate sites are used to underscore and legitimize the more biased sites and gloss over inaccuracies because some (appeal to authority) prestigious news outlet supports a common candidate or cause.

[prognastat]

There are multiple levels of "fake news".

Sure you can have blatant false information, but this is pretty uncommon for most large news sources(even FOX news). However, then there's reporting the story from an angle(spin) rather than what actually occurred and finally the less overt things such as what is left out of a report or even which stories are and aren't reported. You aren't "incorrect" if you simply don't report on stories/parts of stories that don't mesh with your bias/agenda.

Because almost all are guilty of at least the last two you unfortunately, can't trust to get the whole story from only one source.

[technohead]

of course everybody covered it

"covered" as in participated in a hit job on President Trump.

Remember when Communist woman of color AOC blindsided the Dem establishment in NY with her shock win over their Wall Street patsy. Former NY Times editor wrote enraged open letter to the current NY TImes bosses exorciating them for "failing to give adequate coverage" to that campaign.

Of course what she meant by "coverage" was the NY Times failed to chop AOC off at the knees when it became obvious she had a real chance of knocking downing their Democrat establishment Wall Street patsy boy.

Notice how old commie Bernie Sanders has been #metoo-ed at the start of the next election cycle, not directly of course (not yet at least), but his campaign has been trashed. The Dem establishment doesn't want the old commie around next election to screw things up again. When the Dems aren't ranting about Russia stealing the election, they are ranting about Bernie supporters stabbing them in the back.

but [even] CNN was skeptical about it.

Sorry but your CNN link is to an article at least 24hrs after the hit job was launched - ie 24hrs of blitzing "OMG! Like President Trump did a crime thing!"

Only once the hit job backfired, did the Globalist prpopaganda machine start backpedalling.

You need to be careful of your dates when posting news events, this makes you look like you are trying to muddy the water.

There's a lot of smoke with this presidency

Smoke produced by the desperate Swamp creatures.

2/3 of the population want to see some fire...

Of course, they have had smoke blown up their collective @#$! by the Globalist media 24/7 since white flyover America put a Nationalist in the White House

In order for that [coup?!] to work the reporting would actually have to be true

Why? Coups aren't necessarily predicated on truth. In fact the opposite. Vast majority of people associate negative connotations with coups as illigitmate seizures of power.

Since the election outcome, the Globalist machine has been blitzing the US voters with propaganda to undermine the legitimacy of that election and the current President - #Not my President, #The Resistance etc etc.

The entire state/corporate apparatus is working 24/7 to destroy President Trump and the mass of Americans who voted him in as a last ditch effort to stop the Globalist machine crushing them into oblivion and MAGA.

[jacob]

Reminder: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9260