Lending a girlfriend money

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giskard
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Lending a girlfriend money

Post by giskard » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:24 am

OK so not quite the typical question. I am dating a girl (for about 6 months) who lives paycheck to paycheck and does not make very much money. I have loaned her very small amounts of money to make rent, which she has always paid back immediately.

Well, her cat is very sick and needs probably up to $1500 worth of vet work done and I have a strong feeling she is going to ask me to cover it (which she has already hinted at). She is very upset about it and cannot afford it. I just don't see how she would ever be able to pay me back that much, it would end up being a gift. But honestly I'm not sure if I believe in spending that much money on sick pet that may not actually recover, it just seems irresponsible and I know nobody in my family would do something like that.

I guess the issue is that she knows I can afford it and she is probably going to never forgive me if I don't do it. What do you think? Am I being stupid and ruining this relationship by not offering to fork over the money immediately? I think she is upset that I have not even offered yet and tried to avoid the issue. This is also a new relationship and it feels like a bit much. It would be a different story if we were married (or even just living together in a LTR), I would obviously cover it.

Seppia
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by Seppia » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:33 am

RUN

The Old Man
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by The Old Man » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:35 am

Remember with Feminism, women need men like a fish needs a bicycle. She doesn't need you or your money. Second, and most importantly a relationship should not be based on money. Thirdly, begin here and it will never end. Fourth, you are not married, so you owe her nothing. Fifth, it would be a good lesson for her to improve her income prospects which is what Feminism wants her to do anyway. Six, run away and don't look back.

Seppia
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by Seppia » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:39 am

Seriously, it's completely messed up.

If I owned a pet I would either
a) make sure I can afford it and any ancillary costs
b) try to find a way to EARN the money needed for the unexpected treatment or
c) I would think "RIP cat you will be missed"

unless you have entered some sort of agreement where you must cover all costs (ie she had to relocate and quit her job to follow you and she's currently unemployed) it is ridiculous for her to expect that you pay for anything other than the occasional drink out if you are a little sexist like us italians.

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fiby41
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by fiby41 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:16 am

Find a way to get her alone

Jean
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by Jean » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:27 am

My ex was living paycheck to paycheck and sometimes abusive, but she never asked me to pay 2000 for her dog. Juste for moral support when he had to be killed. If she has this kind of expectation, I wouldn't expect it to last.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by TopHatFox » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:35 am

The Old Man wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:35 am
Remember with Feminism, women need men like a fish needs a bicycle.
Haha this isn’t the first time I’ve heard of this fish needs bicycle metaphor. Ah, so refreshing to see ERE be red pill lol. ERE > MMM’s forum

RealPerson
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by RealPerson » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:24 am

Both she and her cat will be missed. Move on now. Very unhealthy relationship.

Jason
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by Jason » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:30 am

giskard wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:24 am
But honestly I'm not sure if I believe in spending that much money on sick pet that may not actually recover
I'll kill her cat for $1250.00.

DutchGirl
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by DutchGirl » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:30 am

I dislike that this is suddenly all about some of the forum members believe that feminism is.

Let's make it about a person who has a sick cat, no money, and a relationship (that isn't a marriage).

I would say that it is very unfortunate that this person cannot afford the surgery for her cat. Perhaps she can take out a loan (with a reputable bank or credit union), if her credit score is good enough for that. Perhaps someone else will offer to become the new owner of the cat and pay for the surgery and then continue to enjoy the cat's presence. Perhaps the cat dies (hopefully a peaceful death at the vet's) because the owner can't afford the expensive treatment. Sometimes such a treatment only prolongs the suffering of the animal anyway (not always true, but sometimes).

You, OP, have no obligation to pay for the cat's surgery. It's not your cat. Of course, not giving the money may have a consequence for your relationship. Each person in the relationship is free to stay in the relationship or leave it.

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vexed87
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by vexed87 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:46 am

Putting the shoe on the other foot, I know my own wife, before we got married would have helped me out without hesitation if my dog got sick, even if it meant her giving me her last penny. DW wouldn't win any gold stars for ERE adherence, but that's not why I married her. It sounds like your GF has an earning problem, not a frugality problem, credit to her she paid you back previously.

Based on the relatively short time you have been together. It's not a great sign that she's already borrowed from you several times, but to her credit she paid you back reliably. If I was asked... I would be torn, even with my own GF (now wife!) but I'm just more frugal with stuff like that.

[Edited: To clarify, I don't hate cats! :lol:] I probably would spend this money on my own dog so long as he wasn't of advanced age, but beyond midlife, nope! A partner's cat (of a young relationship) is a much harder choice. Have you considered offering to pay for the euthanasia to end the suffering? That's an act of kindness in itself. Or would that not go down well? How old is the cat? Lots of variables to consider!
Last edited by vexed87 on Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:26 am, edited 4 times in total.

hojo-e
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by hojo-e » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:07 am

Some things are more important than money. Do you see the relationship going anywhere? Do you see the potential that your girlfriend will someday get her financial situation together?

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Viktor K
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by Viktor K » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:12 am

My girlfriend rescues animals in China and recoups all of her money spent on them from donations through social media. I’m sure there are groups and websites set up for this wherever you are.

I ageee that this isn’t a matter of her being female. Sometimes I think there is a bit too much woman-bashing and making women out to be mere objects on this site.

People give my girlfriend money without even knowing her. It’s not about her, it’s about the animals she is helping. Depends on you. I don’t donate to my own girlfriend, but others might be willing to donate to yours if you help set up the right channels.

jacob
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by jacob » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am

giskard wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:24 am
I have loaned her very small amounts of money to make rent, which she has always paid back immediately.
Key point here.

But then you say that you don't ever think she will be able to pay back $1500? Why not? $1500 is not a large amount in the grand scheme of things. That there would be my red flag, since somehow you know something that gives an anti-indication that she can't pay back $1500 even she has a history of immediate payments in the past. It would be hard to develop a FI goal in a relationship with someone who can't save up $1500 or not even pay it back.

So what is a large amount to you or her? What is a small amount?

I suggest doing personal loans Warren Buffett style: At market rates with [monthly] installments. You can do it under "fool me once" rules, but I don't think there's any reason to be an ass about it "just because it's a cat" or a "girlfriend" (this also goes to some of the comments above :x ) It sounds like it's very important to her. OTOH, you have no obligation to do it ... but there is a risk of breaking the relationship if you say no. If that happens, you also know what kind of financial relations you would have had in the future (i.e. she would become your dependent), so maybe that's a good thing (if you don't want that).

In any case, the time is now. The cat incident has revealed an underlying potential incompatibility and the choice will reveal information.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by EdithKeeler » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:23 am

I have to agree with Dutchgirl re the comments about feminism.

It’s really not about the money or the cat.... it’s about the relationship. 6 months is not too far in. Where is this going?

If my DBF needed money for his dog, I’d give it in a minute. (He would, however, panhandle on a corner, though, before he would ask me. That’s how he is...). Because not only do I have a relationship with him, I also have a relationship with his dog. For us, pets are like family members. And we’ve been together for 9 years. If it was pretty dire, we’d probably have a gentle conversation about whether he was doing this for the dog or for himself, quality of life issues, etc.

Several years ago I paid about $6k over a couple years to keep my mom’s dog alive. Because I loved Pete, and because I love my mom, and it made her less sad. Sometimes I’ve resented it, but mostly I’m ok with that decision.

IlliniDave
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by IlliniDave » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:31 am

Sounds like she hasn't asked for the money yet so I'd not let it stress me out. If she does ask for the money (or you respond to the hints by offering it without her having to ask) just remember to a degree you are setting a precedent for the future of the relationship. If you are okay with providing for her in that capacity, then great, carry on. If not it might be best to decline or at least express your discomfort without being adversarial (if she does ask outright).

There's a second issue you mention which is whether spending that much on an unhealthy pet (and subjecting it to whatever the treatment is, which is arguably a third thing) is really the right thing to do. There's no hard right or wrong to that, but it is another facet of relating that will have to be balanced over time. Ultimately we have money to use it, but there are different value hierarchy options that can be used to govern spending. I think most often in healthy relationships the hierarchies naturally align to a good degree or are negotiated/compromised such that the most important values of each person are part of the mutual goal.

The Old Man
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by The Old Man » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:58 am

TopHatFox wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:35 am
Haha this isn’t the first time I’ve heard of this fish needs bicycle metaphor. Ah, so refreshing to see ERE be red pill lol. ERE > MMM’s forum
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/414150.html
Irena Dunn coined the famous catch phrase, "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle," which was subsequently popularized by Gloria Steinem and became a popular slogan among feminists.

Feminism has strongly influenced my interactions with women. In the past I would have given the money for the pet (I would treat it as a gift). These days I take Feminism at its word and I don't do nothing for women - my mother is the only exception. They don't need me and that includes my money. I once while in Africa gave up my bus seat to a woman and sat on the floor of the bus for a 12 hr bus ride. I would never do that now.

In all interactions with women I suggest we take Feminism at its word and act accordingly.

On a more direct note on your specific issue, money issues are very common in relationships. If your relationship fails because of this pet/money issue, then it was not a strong relationship and would have eventually failed anyway. Don't be Mister Money Bags.
Last edited by The Old Man on Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:05 am

Jason wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:30 am
I'll kill her cat for $1250.00.
$1,000

On a more serious note, RUN LIKE HELL.

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giskard
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by giskard » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:33 am

At first I was surprised how obvious and black and white most of the first replies were making this situation out to be, so I was happy to see people with some more nuanced opinions show up. Although, I do very much appreciate everyone's input.
jacob wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am
It would be hard to develop a FI goal in a relationship with someone who can't save up $1500 or not even pay it back.

It sounds like it's very important to her. OTOH, you have no obligation to do it ... but there is a risk of breaking the relationship if you say no. If that happens, you also know what kind of financial relations you would have had in the future (i.e. she would become your dependent), so maybe that's a good thing (if you don't want that).

In any case, the time is now. The cat incident has revealed an underlying potential incompatibility and the choice will reveal information.
This is the thing bothering me most. If we live together how often will this happen? I will not be able to reach FI because she will always "need" something, and she may not necessarily be relied upon to contribute equally to expenses. I don't know if that is true, but this happening so early does bother me a lot because of these implications for if we tried to live together. She is not the kind of person who may ever have a career type job and the requisite frugality to live beyond paycheck to paycheck, although I have hope for her, it is just hard to see it happening anytime soon.

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giskard
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Re: Lending a girlfriend money

Post by giskard » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:35 am

IlliniDave wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:31 am
Sounds like she hasn't asked for the money yet so I'd not let it stress me out.
Yes, this is a good point.

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