Early Retirement Extreme Forums

She really rants...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbeLhKKg9RI

An hour and 13 minutes? I'm gonna need a TL;DW.

It's worth listening to the first 20 minutes or so just for the entertainment value. She actually says stuff like 'you'll need $350k per year' and 'you think 2 million is a lot now' with a straight face. She's the ERE antichrist.

Suze Orman is below Dave Ramsey on ladder of how much I respect people's opinion on finances and Dave isn't all that high up.

The interview itself shows on multiple occasions that she has done virtually no research into what the FIRE community actually believes, but she certainly has strong opinions on it.

She also contradicts herself between talking about people pursuing FIRE and the money not being enough and then talking about people who make only 50k a year. When she gets called on this the response doesn't provide much to really differentiate it.

Let's say I didn't expect much and wasn't disappointed.

Unrelated to the opinions, but the self aggrandising bloviating makes it much harder to get through than it would otherwise have been already.

Well yeah, financial advisors would be out of a job if they couldn't scare you into the belief that you'll never have enough money and will always need a financial advisor.

Suze is a four letter word. Can't stand listening to her. No way I'm clicking that.

"if something goes wrong you are going to burn up alive because you won't have the money to do it."

Suze is suprisingly good with coke! Try it if you can't stand its bitternes.

I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt (her points about future taxes and costs are something all people should consider), but once she started talking about her own millions ("when you have 20, 30, 50, 100 million dollars -- be like me, ok?") and living on a private island and flying the world in a private jet I realized she really has no idea how normal people live. She's clearly selling a lifestyle that FIRE types don't even want, so it's no wonder the disconnect is so huge.

Jean wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:20 pm

Suze is suprisingly good with coke! Try it if you can't stand its bitternes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suze_(drink)

lolz, I’ll look for this next time I’m at the liquor store

What I don't get is when she says that X millions isn't enough because what if some horrendous thing happens? Like she says that $80k/year isn't enough if you're burning through $350k/year on care (like for her mom). #1 insurance, #2 don't buy expensive care (care for your mother yourself, gasp!) and #3 what about people who NEVER earned/lived on $80k/year even when they were full time working? I think the answer is that she presupposes that retirement means you never have to do ANYTHING for yourself (or others) ever again; instead you can only "retire" if you are able to buy everything you will ever need.

And this criticism isn't even on behalf of frugal types. In her telling, it seems the middle class should just give up hope and die rather than working since they aren't earning enough to pay for emergencies that may come up. It's just such a gap in logic.

So you need a job to protect you if you have an accident. How will a job protect you from that? You might not even be able to work after the accident and you are eligible for the same government and insurance help ether way.

@Suo--I ran into this attitude again last weekend. Someone close to me decided to resign from a well-paying job because it was a terrible work environment and they have plenty of money in the bank to support themselves, albeit somewhat modestly. Others from the Orman school of never-too-rich are giving her shit about quitting and giving up all of that money, almost to the level of an intervention.

I *think* what's going on here is that people who think like Orman assume that if you have the opportunity to get rich, you are somehow obligated to do so ... it's almost offensive to choose comfortable over wealthy when you've been dealt a good hand. Orman's anger with the FIRE community probably stems from her frustration with people like Frugalwoods who are giving up a chance at a high net worth.

With the never-too-rich crowd that I know, that attitude only seems directed at those who have the means to break into the top tier of society though; they seem much more sympathetic and understanding with people of moderate means. I get the impression that if someone can never make that kind of money, then the advice would be that they might as well aim for comfortable and retire asap.

It's a weird contrariety.

@Suo

I agree fear monger BS.

Long term care is expensive but most of us are not in places that where it costs 350k a year. In my are skilled care runs more like 75 +\-10k.

My teacher parents whose savings rate and investment prowess is/was meh at best have enough assets to pay the difference between my mom’s current SS and pension for roughly perpetuity. Neither one of them worked til 70.

It wouldn’t qhave worked so great if they both had need care at the same time. But unfortunately my dad’s end game is known. My mom was his caregiver for the last year of his life, and while he was rather inactive much of this time he was still mostly independent except for the final weeks. No one knows the endgame and some of us need costly care but planning for outliers as the inevitable seems like a poor use of resources too.

Suzy Orman is a paid spokesperson for the saving money business. She is the Fidelity Investments Retirement Score incarnate. She is well compensated to address any idea or movement that would negatively impact that business. They are concerned that a generation that is already skeptical of the stock market and is now figuring out that maybe the idea of modesty being virtue is not a complete boat load of bullshit is developing a different understanding/view of things than previous ones. As they should.

Ah, the saving money business ... and I thought she was in the bridge hawking business?!

She clearly has no idea what's she's talking about. In one breath she's worrying about how we save so much so early we can just quit (will it last 60, 70, 80 years old???) and in the next breath she's ranting about how FIRE folks don't understand compounding and the power of saving a shit ton of money in our 20's and 30's.

1 million dollars? That's ALL you have?!

She's a brilliant self-promoter, her dislike of FIRE is making the rounds ... https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-b ... 2018-10-02

cmonkey wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:44 pm

1 million dollars? That's ALL you have?!

If all you have is money, you can never have enough...

Once you have many million dollars, it'll easily cost you 4-5 figures to pay for someone to swing a hammer for you.

I think that might be the framework she's expounding from ...