7Wannabe5-Take 5

Where are you and where are you going?
User avatar
Dream of Freedom
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Nebraska, US

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by Dream of Freedom » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:29 pm

The things about him that you are discontent with are unlikely to change in the way you want. Grumpy old men tend to get even older and more grumpy. And with outright socialists like Warren and Sanders running on the democrats' side it is likely republicans will get even more firmly entrenched. You should either accept what he is or reject what he is, but realize that he is what he is.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:44 pm

@Dream of Freedom:

I likely did not communicate clearly, but I view the fact that he happens to vote Republican as subsidiary to his ESTJ personality type. I also believe that VERY high functioning humans of any given type should be able to form functional relationships with any other type. However, I do not claim to be that high functioning myself, and I do not hope to become that high functioning in the scant years remaining to me.

One book I read gave a very good description of functional "acceptance." You don't pretend to like what you don't like. You just maintain good practice of turning your perspective away from negative features and on to positive features. I have made some attempt to do that in this relationship, but it doesn't work for very long. So, I agree that I have to overcome the wimpyness that is holding me back and do the deed.

User avatar
Dream of Freedom
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Nebraska, US

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by Dream of Freedom » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:13 pm

So, do you make your own gin like Hawkeye?

User avatar
Ego
Posts: 4315
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by Ego » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:41 pm

Where would you live if you dumped him?

Jason
Posts: 2341
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by Jason » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:54 am

If you are using the MASH analogy, the worst decision you could make is to leave the show. Better to be a co-star on a long running, successful show than be the star in a failed spin-off even if the original turns into a maudlin, pedantic, self-righteous ego-fest. But its your decision if you want to give Hello, ZW5 a go.

EdithKeeler
Posts: 996
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by EdithKeeler » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:11 am

I really don’t get your analogies, and I think all this personality typing is a bit too intense on this board (sorry....it’s interesting, but not everything) but your scenario sounds very much like 2 of my best friends.

Both feel trapped in marriages that aren’t meeting their needs. One husband is an overt asshole (grouchy...) with a very 1950 view of relationships (ie, he says “where’s my dinner” a lot). My friend has drifted away from him sexually (no nooky for about 5 years—and she’s ok with that), she’s drifted way away politically and socially (he’s a rabid Trumper, she’s the mom of a gay son and has gotten very involved in a lot of his interests/politics, etc.)

The other friend’s husband is a guy who can’t hold down a job, can’t (won’t) do a single chore around the house, and at 60 years old is addicted to video games. Like, lay in the recliner and play war games online while she shuffles to the office everyday. And whines “I can’t find a job and what’s for dinner?” while still in his robe.

Both friends are career women, age 53 and 55, who are smart, interesting and interested, with multidimensional pursuits (much like you and me!). Both worry about money, and seem to stay because of money and fear, and a little remaining affection for their husbands. I have suggested to both of them that being alone is not the worst thing in the world, and whatever happens, they’ll make it work.

Which is the same thing I’ll say to you. Clearly you’re a capable, independent woman—I was just thinking that you were living in a tiny trailer in downtown Detroit! Damn, that takes balls! So if/when you decide to make a move, you WILL be fine.

I like men. I love my man, and our long distance thing works great because I don’t really need him, and we don’t spend enough time together to get on each other’s nerves. I was just reading about a Chinese culture where the husband and wife marry, but continue to live in their own families household, coming together only at night. Sounds about right to me.

Peanut
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:18 pm

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by Peanut » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:26 am

Congrats on your daughter’s wedding! I am happy to read some details here and there.

Interesting to hear bf’s take on your ex, also. Has he done better financially or otherwise since the divorce?

Tricky one with bf. Why does he stay with you, do you think? Have you always been the one to initiate your temporary breakups with him? Is he likely to for lack of a more graceful term, kick you out? A woman I know once declared a mediocre relationship is better than no relationship at all. Watched her put that into practice and surprisingly it has worked out okay. In her case important caveat is that it’s the partner’s problems (let’s just call it depression) that hold the relationship back from really being a healthy functioning one. When they came together (early 40s btw) she was definitely in love and sexually compatible with him. Both have been worn down a bit by his issues but not entirely snuffed out.

Final thought: I always get the sense that you miss a lot of what you had w the ME prince. You might try to get to a place where you’re ready to find something in that line again while still with the bf to make the transition easier.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:23 am

Dream of Freedom wrote:So, do you make your own gin like Hawkeye?
I don't drink enough to make it worth the effort. However, you can count on me to figure out how to whip up a batch of cookies out of acorns, rendered squirrel fat, and dried huckleberries, or whatever else is available in any survivalist situation.
Ego wrote:Where would you live if you dumped him?
Someplace nice, but not too exciting, for at least the first month. For instance, I might get the monthly rate on an AirBnb at the opposite end of the range in which I am currently certified to teach (2 hours away from his apartment), which is an area with which I am very familiar, and there are a lot of trails I can hike to clear my mind. After my divorce, I developed the habit of driving to a nearby lake every evening to swim to the sound of a daily sunset carillon bell concert, and that was very helpful. At least 3 of the times we have broken up previously, I have made it too easy for him to lure me back in by making sub-optimum choice for interim housing. So, I think that I am going to have to spend some money to make this work.

OTOH, if I jump right into something too different/exciting, it would be like I was polluting the experiment away from the direction of personal growth. So, I won't choose something like "Camp my way down to Florida in my SMART car."
Jason wrote:If you are using the MASH analogy, the worst decision you could make is to leave the show.
But, there was only one episode where Hawkeye and HotLips spend the night alone together. This dynamic was never imagined to be enough carry an entire series.

@EdithKeeler:

I agree that there is definitely no shortage of grouchy old men to be found, but this isn't a long-term marriage to which I have become deeply accustomed over decades. It shouldn't be so hard for me to break the affectionate-proximity bonds. I should be well able to say/convey/appropriately boundary "You have been a good friend to me, and we have had some fun, but this isn't working out, so it is time to move on."
Clearly you’re a capable, independent woman—I was just thinking that you were living in a tiny trailer in downtown Detroit! Damn, that takes balls! So if/when you decide to make a move, you WILL be fine.
Thanks! I am not really worried that I won't be fine. I am more worried that attempt at living alone will just be another interim solution, because not necessarily my ideal, so not well-boundaried. Also, I do have to tamp down my extreme frugal belief that living by myself in a domicile that meets current housing code will be inherently wasteful :lol:

Peanut wrote:Congrats on your daughter’s wedding! I am happy to read some details here and there.
I am so happy that it went well. The highlight for me was this very sweet choreographed dance they performed at the reception.
Interesting to hear bf’s take on your ex, also. Has he done better financially or otherwise since the divorce?
Definitely not doing better financially or psychologically. My BF was mostly noting that my ex is a good-looking man with a charming, intelligent presentation, as opposed to an obvious derelict. The wedding pictures confirm my objective opinion that both my ex and my current BF are quite a bit better looking than me. This is why it might be best if I give up on men all together for a while. Wanting to be in a relationship is one thing. Lifelong (40 years now since the days I was making out with young Mick Jagger doppelganger in neighborhood woods clubhouse!) sick addiction to the man-candy is another. Maybe retrain my palate more towards kind of schlubby looking but amiable behavior.
Final thought: I always get the sense that you miss a lot of what you had w the ME prince. You might try to get to a place where you’re ready to find something in that line again while still with the bf to make the transition easier.
Spot on. Do I miss sharing a great sex life with a man who adored me? Absolutely. However, I would note that I pretty much had all the pieces of the puzzle in place when I was actively polyamorous too. (Gentleman, look away. The following may be example of how some women sometimes talk when the men are not present.) With the ME prince, the chemistry was strong and instantaneous, and never faded. After our brief meet-up last year, when we both realized there was no possibility for reconciliation, he grabbed me in for a kiss after he dropped me off, and it was still as strong as ever, shot right up to 9.5. With my current BF, it has never risen above 7. In fact, 7 is a rare event for us, usually it's about a 4. But, this was okay when he was mainly serving as my Social Outing Partner, and I was also seeing The Permaculture Manager with whom the "just sex" was almost as good as with the ME prince, and my third partner ( I forget what I called him on this forum) who also adored me and easily could bring it up to 8 when his ED meds were working.

ETA: Forgot to answer your question about break-ups. We have both initiated break-ups, but he has always been the one to initiate reconciliation. He might indicate a desire to "kick me out" in moment of intense irritable behavior, but it would be strictly against his code to do it. Much more likely that I would respond (okay, react) with "Fine with me. I will be gone by sunset!"

I would also note that strategy he uses to lure me back in is:

1) Apology
2) Nonchalance/Casual conversation
3) Offer of some combination of novelty/travel/treat he knows I particularly find enjoyable or interesting. Other men have also used similar method on me with some degree of success, but often also throwing likelihood of hawt sex in the goodie bag they wave out the van window.

George the original one
Posts: 4811
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
Location: Wettest corner of Orygun

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by George the original one » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:53 pm

What I hear is that you're going to be serial polyamory, if for no other reason than you need to keep your relationships lively. If a long term relationship is still sought, then you have a better shot at finding it while you stay in the market. And don't worry about being less attractive than the men you hitch up with... having a winning personality works for you, so why give up a good practice?

7Wannabe5
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:44 am

Had a good day with the BF yesterday. The kind of good day you can sometimes have when you are both openly acknowledging that it’s about time to wrap it up.

Thanks to my recent skim of dr. daylen’s human identification guide in rough draft form, and some other related reading, and conversation with BF, I finally had an “ah hah” moment of empathy with his ESTJ needs/wants. The ESTJ is sometimes called The Chef, and what The Chef mostly wants is for somebody to exhibit care and support through mechanisms much like those displayed by a prep chef. IOW, a behind the scenes type who is very concerned with order and happy with routine is a goood match of function/energy.

Anyways, we came to a rough agreement that I will move out as soon as I nail down next long term gig, thereby avoiding need for interim housing solution. Since I usually err on the side of feeling guilty rather than hurt at break-ups, I was relieved when he made a confident joke about not being worried about finding other sexual partners, but I did tear up a bit when he said that he would still miss “ the person who helps him with everything.”

7Wannabe5
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:03 am

@GTOO:

What I am going to attempt to do is live a life that is in best alignment with my core truth which is something like Scientific Pantheism. Scientific Pantheism recognizes the tension between monogamous and polygamous practice which naturally exists in the human animal, and does not offer judgment in this realm.

Also, I believe you were correct in your recognition of the fact that it is not for me to know or doubt the complexity of the process that resulted in my desire for sexual intercourse with men in possession of boyish grins as well as yummy pumped up guns.

enigmaT120
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm
Location: Falls City, OR

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by enigmaT120 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:09 pm

George the original one wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:53 pm
What I hear is that you're going to be serial polyamory, if for no other reason than you need to keep your relationships lively. If a long term relationship is still sought, then you have a better shot at finding it while you stay in the market. And don't worry about being less attractive than the men you hitch up with... having a winning personality works for you, so why give up a good practice?
And if you still have a preference for daily sex (something you mentioned several years ago which oddly I can't forget!) then that would count for a lot too. Looks aren't worth that much if I can't touch.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:17 am

@enigmaT120:

Yes, overt contract for daily sex would be my preference in monogamous relationship. Preference for daily sex is more complex than meeting simple frequency threshold. Sexual desire naturally cycles within sexual beings and all living beings also have internal cycles that follow the sun. So, the mechanism for having sex 2x/week is going to be at least somewhat regulated by clock and calendar and/or subconscious environmental triggers, which can feel mechanical or easily degrade over time, but if you adopt the habit of having sex every day, it starts to feel as natural as preparing and eating dinner together. Obviously, this practice is quite a bit more difficult to maintain as a single person, even if you are practicing polyamory and you have 3 partners.
Looks aren't worth that much if I can't touch.
True. I have referred to this as "bowl of plastic fruit syndrome" myself. It's like when you walk into your Great-Aunt's living room and her realistic-looking bowl of plastic fruit triggers you, but then you have to remember it's not good for eating. Just this morning I was cuddling in very cold room with my soon-to-be ex-BF and I observed aloud that I liked the feel of his muscular man flesh, but did that get me any action? No. When I was a sweet young thing with a good-looking depressive sexually introverted husband, I took it more personally. Now, I am much more philosophical and proactive towards solution.

OTOH, as a predominantly heterosexual female, I am going to be kidding myself if I think I can completely escape the reality of the strong wiring between sexual core and visual processing center in the average adult male brain. Because my BF is bi-sexual (in theory, not practice, it's complicated), yet wired in this manner, he sometimes sends me photos of penises which he finds attractive. I have had great difficulty attempting to explain to him that although I do like penises, it doesn't work for me to objectify them so narrowly.

This said, I am in possession of enough sexual intuition or empathy to accept/welcome a reasonable amount of objectification of my parts by male partners. For instance, many older men require fairly specific triggers in order to ejaculate and many of these will be visual. Also, it has been my experience, which is backed up by the research I have read on the topic, that especially early on in relationship, romantic/affectionate feelings are also very visually mediated in adult males. Since, worst-case scenario, I do not want to ever find myself re-enacting the Jessica Lange role in scene with Robert De Niro where he flips her over, bluntly stating "I don't like the face.", I strictly prefer to only have sex with men who spontaneously say something like "You have beautiful eyes." , "Wow, you are much lovelier than your photo." or, at bare minimum, "You're cute." upon first meeting me.

enigmaT120
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm
Location: Falls City, OR

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by enigmaT120 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:47 pm

Wow. I find some men attractive but not a penis.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:09 am

@enigmaT120:

Yeah, he’s kind of like some old school Roman guy. His preference would be high status “wife”and a couple young concubines of either gender on the side.

I was happier in relationship with him when my role was more like “travel concubine” rather than “wife” and I was more free to define my own status centered on my own property, and maintain relationships with other lovers independently of my relationship with him.

enigmaT120
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm
Location: Falls City, OR

Re: 7Wannabe5-Take 5

Post by enigmaT120 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:28 pm

Makes sense.

Post Reply