Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Where are you and where are you going?
Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:38 am

I can dig it.
Jin+Guice wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:52 am
In my experience, totally losing the drive for money in art is not advisable. See Jacob's reasons for not giving his book away for free for reasons why.
Just clarifying, not needing the money does not mean I would be passing up on more of it. It just means dealing from a position of greater power.
Jin+Guice wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:52 am
I hope that my responses don't come off as high minded or dismissive.
Hehe, you’re talking to one of the forum’s most pretentious jerks.

Jean
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by Jean » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:05 am

An artist needing the money is probably better for the listeners, but I'm very happy about my two albums, even if they are barely listenables (probably cause i wasn't in need for money).

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:33 pm

"Yesterday I drew my last 2 pounds; in about a week I shall be penniless... To be a good artist one must have an income. Believe me that is true. The starving artist in the garret is a thing of the past. To paint good pictures one must have a comfortable studio and good food - a garret and crust of bread isn't good enough. Let no person come and tell me that poverty is good for an artist!"
- Gertler, in Among The Bohemians

Jason
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by Jason » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:21 pm

There was recently an article in the NYT that the idea of the profligate, degenerate artist stereotype is also a thing of the past. Drug induced, throwing TVs into the swimming pool stupors between classic rock albums has given way to the idea than an austere, simplistic life is most suitable for creative output.

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Jin+Guice
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by Jin+Guice » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:00 pm

I think that speaks to some of the money coming out of the music industry as well as a certain wild west aspect to the 60-70s that isn't there as much as it used to be. Having worked both in the music industry and in a gigging indie rock band, there are still as many drugs as you want to put into your face available. However, drug induced (artist) meltdowns are not generally well received, but maybe I'm just getting old.

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Jin+Guice
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by Jin+Guice » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:45 pm

classical_Liberal wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:37 am
I would also add that semi-ERE makes a version of ERE open to a great many more people. Anyone dissatisfied enough with their work can save for a year or two, then use the savings to move on to something more fulfilling. I don't think there is anything wrong with ERE. Particularly in the situation most of the OG's come from. They were happy in careers, then bored of them and wanted to pursue something else... they just happened to be FI. Many of the folks coming here for inspiration are those who are already bored, or worst, burnt out of there jobs already. Are they willing to radically change their life? maybe if it's bad enough. But to tell them to radically change your lifestyle AND tolerate another 5-10 years of the shit-storm that drove them here... you've lost 'em. A shorter timeframe is much more appealing to the masses, period.

Additionally, I tend to think semi-ERE is more robust. Not just because someone can get a job due to more varied and recent experience, but also because income is the best inflation and sequence of return hedge available. We all know those are really the only two plan killers for FIRE. I just don't buy the argument that jobs will be automated away, or that jobs won't be available because, "recession", or whatever.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I didn't even think of semi-ERE making ERE easier/ more appealing to more people.
Seppia wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:55 am
First, I’m obscenely risk adverse in certain areas of my life, so my plan is to accumulate enough assets that would theoretically give me a good chance of never needing to work again AND keep working either part time or in a generally lower stress environment, in order to cover expenses.

Secondly, while I consider myself someone with many interests, I’m scared of how I would react when confronted with 10+ additional hours of free time per day, so semi ERE would be a good first step
I also plan to accumulate more than I need to retire and then keep working (but I'm going to do it slower). Self directing your own days in a fulfilling manner is very difficult! Now that I have more free time I've come to believe this is Jacob's real skill.
2Birds1Stone wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:14 am
I would suggest anyone who is a truly high earner to at least get to 12.5x barebone expenses (a la c_L) before considering dropping down to minimum wage work (which I imagine can be demeaning or depressing to someone who had a higher paid and maybe more sr. position?).
I think by adding the McDonald's example I may have given the mistaken impression that I don't endorse working a high paying job or that high paying jobs aren't available part-time. I think working at McDonald's part-time would be horrible (someone, somewhere probably likes it though), my no responsibility dream job is working at the library. I still think that would be boring, but I really love libraries and I know it'd be really really easy.

I think the most viable part-time path is some sort of consulting/ freelance work that is highly paid. Some industries (such as healthcare) do have actual part-time jobs in them and some don't seem to (engineering is an example I've been given a few times). However, the options expand if you think in terms of freelancing/ consulting.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:45 pm

Hell yea!

When I competed in drug free bodybuilding and powerlifting, I started helping friends/family for free. Soon enough I get tired of my advice falling on deaf ears and started charging so that folks had skin in the game. Before I knew it I was earning $400-500/month for over a year! That shit can be a game changer when it's at the proper $/hr.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by classical_Liberal » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:01 am

Some more ammunition for the Jin+Guice semi-ERE campaign. I was listening to Mad FIentist's interview with Michael Kitces tonight.
Michael Kitces: Yup! It’s so true. And again, I know even just from the flipside, having been through this with lots of clients over the years, the number of people who insisted on getting to their pure, standalone financial independence number because they never ever, ever, ever wanted to have to work again, within three years were working again.

Mad Fientist: Yeah, definitely. That’s something I’ve realized just within a year of leaving my job. It’s like I get the most happiness and pleasure from making progress on projects. It’s great doing these projects with no worry for whether it’s going to have a monetary reward, but most of these things do.

Michael Kitces: Yeah! Except they end up actually still having a monetary reward, right? I mean, even in the financial independence community, you look at folks like Mr. Money Mustache. He tapped out for his financial independence because he saved up to hit his number, except then he was bored in retirement and made a blog. The blog turned out to be so successful that now he’s making I think more money than he was when he was working off of the hobby that he was going to do when he didn’t have to work and earn any more money.

And I think, really, just the challenge for so many people is we get so stuck in this way of thinking that “I’m in a job now, and I don’t really enjoy my job. So the only path forward I can see is getting to a number where I can say goodbye to my boss and never have to work again” because working is, for some folks, unfortunately so unpleasant. It feels like the only relief is not working and getting to financial independence, when in reality, we need things to wake up to in the morning, and we need to be able to have a sense of progress. We want to crave to have something that gives us a feeling like we’re having an impact.

And most of those things end up being activities that earn some money—even if you didn’t mean to or even if it’s like, “Hey, I’m bored. And I really want to get some social fulfillment.”

We had a client like that. Two years later, he’s a really successful bartender. He was a programmer. He was a really social programmer who wanted to be on the computer world I think in part because he wanted more social interaction. He didn’t feel like he got it as a programmer. And he ended up being a bartender. He gets to chit-chat with people and have fun. He pretty much enjoys it because he only takes the shifts that he wants. And he only works a couple of days a week. And he’s making money—and it’s not trivial money.

You never would have thought like, “Hey, have you ever thought about quitting your good computer engineering job and being a bartender?” I mean, if we’ve had that conversation at the time, he probably would have laughed it off. That’s exactly where he ended out because he just—
Having 50 years in front of you is so much time. You’re going to want to find things to do. And a lot of the things you’re going to end up wanting to do are going to end up producing some dollars.

And again, the irony for him and so many is if he just admitted that even doing a little bartending work might have been on the table in the first place, he probably could’ve been out two years earlier.

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7Wannabe5
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:43 am

So true. Even if you just pick up 20 returnable cans on your daily walk in the park, it will add up to the interest on $20,000 = year working at $40,000 and saving 50%.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:56 am

Trader Joe's starts associates at $15/hr. Shifts are 7.25 hours.

Working 2 days a week produces $174/week in income AFTER taxes/SS/medicare. That's $9,000/yr right there. You're also injected into a community of ~100 hippies/college aged whippersnappers, which could lead to other money making opportunities.

Cheepnis
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by Cheepnis » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:13 am

@7w5

Returning cans used to be one of my favorite things to do when I was a kid. Grandpa lived a state over where can return wasn't a thing. He'd pick up cans every morning on his wake around the lake and when he's home visit he'd pack this old shitty-ass 40' Winnebago to the gills with 55 gallon trashbags full of cans. Then we'd spend a weekend going out and returning cans. 7 year old me loved it!

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Jin+Guice
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by Jin+Guice » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:51 am

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:43 am
So true. Even if you just pick up 20 returnable cans on your daily walk in the park, it will add up to the interest on $20,000 = year working at $40,000 and saving 50%.
@7w5: You are really tempting me wit this whole "decomposer" thing. Are you doing/ have you done any of this yourself for fun/ profit (aside from your more or less defunct book business). EXPLAIN YRSLF!

@c_L: Exactly what I'm talking about. I guess I've been lucky in not working totally shit jobs and accidentally taking breaks when shit didn't pan out, but I know that working is fundamental to my happiness and that the easiest way to work with other people is in the usual job based scenario.

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:00 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:43 am
So true. Even if you just pick up 20 returnable cans on your daily walk in the park, it will add up to the interest on $20,000 = year working at $40,000 and saving 50%.
Ahhhh, you're making me miss Detroit :cry:

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