Hristo's FI Journal

Where are you and where are you going?
Hristo Botev
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Hristo Botev »

Salathor wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:26 pm
That's great! Can't say I disagree with you concerning the novel as an artform, though I'm certainly no expert. I'm really enjoying the homeschooling thing; it may just last a couple years before my youngest decides he wants to go to the public middle school, but even still, it's been a good lesson in viewing institutions critically for the entire family.

Hristo Botev
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Hristo Botev »

It's a bit funny, but I've created a cubicle for myself. I'm sure there is some sort of name for the psychological phenomenon whereby you build yourself a cage even when you don't have to. But regardless, it's cozy and functional and gets me out of the house (even if just to the backyard). With a homeschooling kid, another kid who is in and out of the house with school and athletics, and a wife with not one but two part-time jobs with unpredictable schedules, a dedicated and secluded work space was needed--I mean, phone calls with opposing counsel can get pretty salty, and my family doesn't need to hear that.

Image

DS's "school house" is at the other end, though it's Friday and he only has a math review worksheet on Friday, which he'd completed before I was out of the shower:

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The Zoom view:

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Dave
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Dave »

Hah! Nice cozy office setup there, looks great. Having a quality dedicated work space can make a big difference.

What chair is that, and do you like it? I've been using a old, junky, uncomfortable one I picked up for free from a guy liquidating an office, but I'm starting to hunt for a legitimate chair given how many hours per day I spend sitting in it...

Hristo Botev
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Hristo Botev »

Dave wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:45 am
What chair is that, and do you like it?
No idea, unfortunately, as my firm's office manager bought it and I dragged it down here when I went remote and left my cheap Ikea chair back in the office for when I go in.

Henry
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Henry »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:12 am
I'm sure there is some sort of name for the psychological phenomenon whereby you build yourself a cage even when you don't have to.
Institutionalization

Hristo Botev
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Hristo Botev »

I'm sure this isn't a novel idea, but I had a long car ride this morning and was thinking about maybe trying out the YNAB app for budgeting, which got me thinking about how effective my great books seminar program has been at getting me to actually read books I've always said I would read but hadn't, which got me thinking about how I'd probably do a better job at my weight training if I paid for coaching, which got me thinking about how people pay DW for outpatient nutrition counseling even though they probably have a pretty decent general idea as to what they should and shouldn't be eating, which got me thinking about how I've always known that my prayer life would improve drastically if I would seek out a spiritual director, which got me thinking about how as much as I like to balk at my friends/family who pay a financial planner to manage their investments, all of them probably have their financial house in order better than I do.

And all that got me to thinking about how all these things: studies and intellectual development, diet, exercise, money/retirement, and spirituality; are all things that would be totally unnecessary to outsource in a properly functioning community/village with a shared common system of virtue. But we don't have that (or we do, and it's just antithetical to my own virtue system), and so all of these various outsource resources that provide us with (1) a plan and (2) accountability are, in fact, necessary; and you are a fool to tell yourself that you can tackle all of these things on your own.

ThriftyRob
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by ThriftyRob »

Good thoughts! I have been agonising over whether to use a financial planner to help organise my investments once we sell our home. On the one hand, I know the theory and can construct a balanced portfolio with the appropriate degree of risk but on the other, these guys have been delivering growth of 8 to 10 per cent for years.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Western Red Cedar »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 4:22 pm
and so all of these various outsource resources that provide us with (1) a plan and (2) accountability are, in fact, necessary; and you are a fool to tell yourself that you can tackle all of these things on your own.
I'd disagree with this conclusion. We are living in an era with an incredible amount of access to free information and resources. Recognizing that one benefits from some level of external accountability is an important insight, but you don't necessarily need to pay for those services.

Paying an expert to help set up a plan might be reasonable (such as a fee-only fiduciary). Paying for specialized training might also be reasonable (such as a martial art). Paying for regular accountability seems a little lazy or indicates a lack of creativity in my opinion. There are plenty of alternatives to maintain personal accountability.

Salathor
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Salathor »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 4:22 pm
I'm sure this isn't a novel idea, but I had a long car ride this morning and was thinking about maybe trying out the YNAB app for budgeting,
I've been using YNAB since 2014 (I bought it back when it was buy-once-and-keep-forever, although it wasn't quite as feature rich as the new version, obviously). Changed my financial life! I've actually applied for a few jobs there but never gotten selected.

Hristo Botev
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Hristo Botev »

Salathor wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:49 pm
I've been using YNAB since 2014 (I bought it back when it was buy-once-and-keep-forever, although it wasn't quite as feature rich as the new version, obviously). Changed my financial life! I've actually applied for a few jobs there but never gotten selected.
Appreciate the endorsement; I’ve been listening to the podcast the past couple days and trying to make sense of it, based on some folks I trust swearing by it; I’m sold,!but convincing DW will take some work.

Salathor
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Salathor »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:36 pm
but convincing DW will take some work.
Does she have a problem with the YNAB "system", or the cost, or the idea of keeping a strict budget?

1) I can definitely endorse the YNAB system. It's worked well for my family for nearly a decade
2) I don't know what it costs nowadays, but if you feel like you have ANY wonder about how/why you are spending money, where it's going, etc, then I can practically guarantee you that you will save more than the cost of YNAB by getting the system and seeing where the money is going. You'll probably be shocked.
3) Budgets don't have to be strict. We used ours that way at first, but now we're much more flexible. We use our budget as guidelines and don't mind adjusting as the month goes on. If we overspend in one category, something else goes down. It helps guide us but doesn't constrain us, and the beauty is, at the end of the month you'll have a REAL picture of where your money went. Maybe you want to save 70% of your income each month, but you consistently find yourself short. Using YNAB will prove that you really are spending more on (dining out || streaming || clothing || knickknackery) than you imagined.

EDIT: Not that I've got any dog in this fight. Just, you know, it worked for us and it's nice to share when you are excited about something (to paraphrase CS Lewis talking about something totally different ;-) ).

MBBboy
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by MBBboy »

RE the properly functioning community obviating the need for outsourcing 1) plans and 2) accountability...

1). I'm not sure on this. Maybe I'm not old enough to have experienced it, but groups of people with shared virtures who support each other strongly don't always have the knowledge necessary to make the "right" plan. My mom and her husband have strong, supportive communities and everyone's financial plan involved variable annuities with high loads sitting in their IRAs. They all had the same blind spot. Maybe that means it's not properly functioning because the diversity of knowledge wasn't there?

2)That's a great insight, and accountability is super important. One of my favorite learnings from the Marine Corps was "An ok plan executed well > excellent plan executed poorly". Usually phrased more colorfully with an emphasis on executing everything with aggression and vigor. Part of that is being accountable for your part of the plan / system / process working, because others are depending on you.

The lack of community in modern times (likely enabled by the false substitution of social media and online communities) is a major problem, and interesting to think about how we are in a position where people pay $ to get what used to be received for free. One of the many benefits of marriage I suppose - my wife has NO problem keeping me accountable. In fact, she does so aggressively.....she might have learned a bit too much from her proximity to the Corps.....

Hristo Botev
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Hristo Botev »

Salathor wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:48 pm
Thanks for that, @Salathor. DW's reservations are two-fold: (1) uploading private financial information to an app, even if you aren't linking bank accounts; and (2) the seeming unnecessary-ness of it (she drew an analogy to a person deciding to get into shape and then immediately buying a Peloton or whatever despite having running shoes in the closet and a bicycle in the garage). I get both of those concerns, and I know I'm the one much more likely to "buy a solution" than DW. Regardless, I opted instead to just play around on the YNAB app for a few days through the free trial and to then try and mimic the system via our own improved spreadsheet, which I think I've done. DW and I spent a couple hours yesterday playing with the spreadsheet and putting together a budget for January, which of course prompted us to figure what trips and other projects we've got for the year, figuring out a cost estimate for those trips/projects, and assigning money that we'd have just considered "savings" in the past. I like the thinking that there is no such thing as "savings," there's just short-term and mid-term and long-term spending. We'll see how it works, but she was probably right that a YNAB subscription doesn't make much sense for us.

Hristo Botev
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Hristo Botev »

MBBboy wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:52 am
Thanks for sharing your thoughts; mine was a half-baked insight with some obvious shortcomings. That said, regarding your mom and husband and having the knowledge necessary to make the right plan, perhaps it's always been this way to some extent, but the shiftiness of our modern times is part of what I'm talking about; things are "progressing" SO quickly now--and probably have been since around the time of the WWI, perhaps--that we are in the middle of what must be rather a new phenomenon for mankind that generational transfer of knowledge is no longer a thing. I don't have much to relay to my kids about the world we live in, because their world is so different than the one I lived in in the 80s/90s, and I have no idea what their world will look like when they are in their 40s. Same for my own dad and his ability to relay much of a practical nature to me; this is the "OK, Boomer" insult, I guess, but it's a problem that the reason practical non-Googleable knowledge is so lacking is because what my grandparents and great-grandparents could have taught me, through my parents, they didn't, because perhaps they thought it was unnecessary in a world with Birds' Eye frozen vegetables. I don't know. But it's a challenge as a parent.

My dad and I used to do minor repairs on the family cars together back in my adolescence; it was great, but to what end practically? I can't work on any of these new cars. My dad taught me how to drive stick; now, it's all I can do to find a relatively new small pick-up truck for my daughter to drive that is a manual, as much as I want one for her because (a) it's a great theft and boyfriend shenanigans deterrent, and (b) I thought it is a useful skill to have, but anymore that is only if you travel (I no longer do). Growing and preserving your own food is great; but anymore it is XXXX times more expensive to do that (seeds, soil amendments, canning supplies, chicken/rabbit feed) than to just buy the bland and nutrition-less shit they call fruit and vegetables at the store. We seem to live in a world where having a backyard "victory garden" is a luxury.

MBBboy
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by MBBboy »

This post is simultaneously fascinating and depressing. This generational knowledge transfer of practical skills thread is going to occupy my thoughts for a while

mooretrees
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by mooretrees »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:06 pm
Growing and preserving your own food is great; but anymore it is XXXX times more expensive to do that (seeds, soil amendments, canning supplies, chicken/rabbit feed) than to just buy the bland and nutrition-less shit they call fruit and vegetables at the store. We seem to live in a world where having a backyard "victory garden" is a luxury.

Foraging is still free. We've been eating only foraged fruit from people who have too much and from trees I've found around our valley. Just plugging that for dealing with expensive food. If one built (from scrap and limited purchased supplies) a solar dehydrator then a lot of fruit could be preserved very cheaply. Canning and freezing are also good, just more energy and purchasing supplies.

mathiverse
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by mathiverse »

I also wonder to what extent gardening costs more if you consider 1) the improved nutrient profile of the produce/meat that you mentioned, 2) the increased physical health (sun exposure, physical activity during gardening, etc), 3) the amortized over X years cost of all the set up instead of the one time costs all at once. I also wonder how your costs will evolve as the permaculture system becomes more mature.

And, since it's relevant to ERE, you get the hedge against major food supply disruptions of having a garden which is worth something, but perhaps not easily quantifiable.

Hristo Botev
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Hristo Botev »

mathiverse wrote:
Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:05 am
As hobbies go, it’s a creative one (as in it creates a useful product), so it probably makes more sense than golf or hiking as a pastime (though my 10-yo disagrees, cuz he’d rather I take him golfing). But I suspect that unless your timeline/outlook is at least a decade, it’s not a pursuit that makes much sense if you’re looking to live a 1JAFI now or next year or maybe a couple years from now. That’s not to say I’m not going to still keep plugging along at it, for the (arguable) self reliance benefits you mention, and as (a) I’m not trying to live at 1JAFI, (b) it gets me out of the office and my hands dirty, and (c) my timeline/outlook is multigenerational.

But, I think a lot of the back to the land folks out there now are hucksters selling “content” and a make-believe life that is not possible today, at least not in the manner they present it (have you looked at seed prices lately?)

SouthernAlchemy
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by SouthernAlchemy »

You are surely right that the benefits, economic and otherwise, of gardening accrue over years, but I think it's valuable to think beyond the standard economic logic of investment $ in/ profit $ out. 10 or 12 years ago I bought a $3 packet of bean seeds. Through summer and fall the family eats as many green beans as I can make them. At the end of the season a few beans are saved and the cycle continues the next year. I've made that $3 back many times over. That's great, but there's been a lot more value to come out of that investment. I have also shared beans with neighbors, family and friends, building various types of 'capital' in the process. The beans fix nitrogen feeding themselves and nearby plants, avoiding the purchase of chemical inputs. Bees, particularly native bees, are always humming around enjoying the bean flowers' nectar, increasing the yield of beans and nearby veggies. Rabbits and deer are fed by the foliage. OK that last one is almost negative value (as it can be bad for my mental state...) but I am all for sharing, within reason, I guess. I suppose the offending animals may leave me some fertilizer in return... I also enjoy spending time in the garden and the process of bringing food to the table, to say nothing of the pleasure and benefits of eating garden fresh produce . Wins all around, I think. I have to believe that $3 has compounded much more over the years than had I stuck it in my 401k.

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Lemur
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Re: Hristo's FI Journal

Post by Lemur »

I've not done this in practice yet, but one of my long-term goals is to try to attempt some degree of food economic independence with gardening / potential small farm. Last year, I think I planted enough calories to survive just 1 day. Part of me believes that the costs associated with gardening is correlated to skill (hands on skills like building compost, knowing when to plant, understanding your local environment, etc.). In other words, the more skill you've, the less it costs to figure out how to work with your environment and plant things.

If I maintain myself on 2500 calories a day, then I'll need 912,500 calories a year to survive. If one wanted to, they could estimate how food economically independent they're by calculating calories from a harvest and dividing by calories needed to survive in a year. Just to give an example - If one potato is 150 calories, then ~17 potatoes is needed to survive a day or 6,205 potatoes to survive a year. Potatoes are generally easy to plant. So is squash. But also nuts are very calorically dense and worth an investment. I take it the best things might be perennials ... anything that can keep returning food without much effort.

@SouthernAlchemy provides a closed loop example with the beans.

OFC, the market is extremely efficient when it comes to food. A sack of potatoes (3lb) in most places is like $4.00. And rice is extremely laborious. Can you beat that? Maybe not in the first year....but perhaps if a system is developed where you replant a ratio of potato sprouts each year per harvest you might return your investment eventually. And then there are non-monetary reasons to be economically efficient anyway as SouthernAlchemy also pointed out.

@Hristo - I agree with the general sentiment that homesteading should not be romanticized. It is some hard work that is for sure and for the vast majority probably not economically efficient. Though if one really REALLY likes to keep themselves busy and outside just about everyday, then it might be a good personality fit.

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