Kamala Harris

[CS]

@Hristo

Are you saying Pence and his Indiana roots brought the bona fids to Trump, or just that what Trump addresses in his speech overcomes his East Coast lineage?

[Hristo Botev]

I think both. That whole backlash a few years ago sort of poking fun at Pence about not ever being alone with female staffers (or other women not his wife), with people making fun of Pence for being so backward or whatever, I think may have had some unintended consequences in that I think it built up some street cred for Pence among some flyover conservatives who see it as illustrative of coastal big-city progressive types making fun of the beliefs and behaviors of us ignorant Bible-toting rednecks with our backward thinking on family and the sexes, et al.

I honestly don't know what to make of Trump. I guess to the extent that folks I hang with like him it's because he's kinda the first guy that ran as a Washington "outsider" that's actually led as one, or at least that seems to be the perception from my anecdotal discussions with friends. There's a certain appeal with the "burn this shit down" mantra he sometimes conveys, at least to the extent that they (me) understand the "this" as whatever elitist institution they most hate. I mean, a lot of folks around here REALLY hated NAFTA and free trade policies in general; it's depressing to drive along the highway and see these abandoned plants and factories, to see what used to be cute little factory towns with the windows all boarded up, etc. No doubt NAFTA et al. had much less to do with those factories and jobs leaving than a lot of people believe, but it's a narrative that works.

[Alphaville]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-UjGhM_w97Q

[Hristo Botev]

Oh man, this sort of us v. them stuff is just not going to end well, I'm afraid.

[Alphaville]

Oh man, this sort of us v. them stuff is just not going to end well, I'm afraid.

did you hear what he said though? the full 9 minutes...

[Hristo Botev]

Well, I'm clearly only "pretending" to work today; so yeah, I watched it this morning like I suspect a lot of the rest of the country did. Was there something in particular you wanted me to pay attention to? (I'm assuming you dropped the link in this thread for me.)

[Alphaville]

(I'm assuming you dropped the link in this thread for me.)

wat. no. but does it speak to you?

[Hristo Botev]

I'd think it'd speak to anyone. I mean, I've liked Doc Rivers for a long time, since he was at Orlando. And a lot of the reason I like him is because of this kind of stuff, the direct and passionate way he communicates with his players and the media, and cuts through BS.

But, my point about the us v. them stuff is that I don't think the currently omnipresent "Black" identity v. "white" identity dichotomy narrative is particularly healthy for us as a country, short term or long term. I also don't think that anyone benefits from one racially-defined group of people being told over and over again that they are a victim in their own society. And I also don't think anyone benefits from another racially-defined group of people being told over and over again that they are oppressors. If this narrative continues, I think it's going to deteriorate into tribalism (more so than is already the case), and I don't think our system of government is built to work well within an ethnic or racial tribalism framework. Maybe that sort of tribalism is less of a problem in countries that historically are more multicultural in their mindset (Europe?), but that's not really the US, with its assimilation and "melting pot" identity myth.

But as for the specific, tangible police reforms he mentioned, I honestly haven't come across anyone IRL (no idea about what kind of a dumpster fire is going on online) who is not fully on board with some significant and effective police reform efforts (though certainly there are likely to be disagreements as to whether that should happen at the federal or local levels); and that reform should happen with a whole lot of urgency. So if there is in fact relatively universal agreement as to the need for some serious police reforms (I only have anecdotal knowledge, I'm not a pollster), then I'm going to ask, who is benefiting from continuing to push this tribalistic narrative?

[Alphaville]

i’m a little puzzled—maybe i’m misreading?—that you seem to hold the protestors responsible for the us vs. them narrative, rather than the whole history of the country having created that situation from the outset, and the creators of said situation benefiting from it for centuries. no?

of course nobody likes to feel guilty.

but anyway, we don’t have to agree on this.

i posted the link because i thought it was a nice counterpoint to the republican convention red meat you mentioned, which to my eyes very much continues in the above-mentioned tradition.