Early Retirement Extreme Forums

Food for thought @Ego

The first half of the Palladium article has strong undertones of https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths I would note that it's possible to take on different roles in that dynamic. It's true that MOPs will eventually make out the majority of the movement and that sociopaths will run the operations. However, it is possible to maintain a geek core to the movement.

I also agree that it takes a "hero" in order to get enough attention to "become the next cool". The blogpost that "made me"/made other people pay attention was https://earlyretirementextreme.com/how- ... art-i.html which went viral.

I'm not sure I agree that "undying fame among mortals" is the only thing that matters. At least not as an end of itself. I think it's useful as a means to an end. In light of the above, is a movement without a "personal figurehead" as effective as a movement without one? Even Anonymous has a figurehead in the form of the Guy Fawkes mask.

The last half seems to be about how establishing an "old boys"-network is really what ultimately gets things done when it comes to "working the system from the inside". This is probably as true as ever. There are so many reasons why becoming part of such networks is nearly impossible. This is why ERE is essentially a "hack" (in the classical computer sense) that uses existing rules and traditions to play the game in a new way. Other than huffing and puffing there's little that institutions (cultural, religious, political, financial, ...) can do against it. A big reason for that is that ERE is "more X than average" for each dimension; just not in the way the system intended. My apologies for not having an elevator-pitch explanation for this (yet). An example would be that a 0% savings rate is irresponsible and therefore a problem. A 15% savings rate is considered responsible and just right for a system that wants everybody working for 40+ years. Whereas a 50-75% rate is MORE RESPONSIBLE THAN RESPONSIBLE ... and suddenly it's a problem, but there are no good ways to shoot it down. For every vector of attack on ERE as a movement, ERE is simply doing more than the standard it is judged by (social, environmental, financial, ...). This makes it very hard to judge, especially since it has so many dimensions to it.

jacob wrote:This makes it very hard to judge, especially since it has so many dimensions to it.

Excellent point and very true. However, "I" do still have some difficulty on occasion promoting/defending it to those in my social circle who are maybe most in alignment with Green-Yellow. Actually, a particular human I have the hardest time arguing ERE with is an INTJ who is a scientist by profession, but leans Socialist for reasons having largely to do with cultural background and family of origin particulars.

At level/perspective of Blue-towards Green, it could be judged (superficially) as being less "generous/caring" than a model/morality that calls for 25% saving and 25% tithing of income. It also could be seen as having some problems with aesthetics that might be indicative of not enough integration of level Purple. IOW, it could be judged as over-valuing Truth vs. Beauty. I am suggesting this as maybe being a lack of integration of Level Purple, because even the earliest, most primitive, humans valued and were engaged in art, music, and story-telling, even though in our current Orange environment, those who focus on these pursuits are more likely to only be able to make income as baristas, while those who study seriously boring soul-deadening topics such as Network Communications/TCP/IP (course I am taking this term-sigh) are more likely to "flourish."

Just sayin'

Hi, I am looking for the graphic from 'Big and complex example problem: community resilience' from the presentation. I remember it was on the forum with circles signifying more or less where ERE is, where MMM is etc. what thread was it in?

@guitarplayer: I think you are looking for this chart, but may have it confused with this one.

Bingo, thanks @Fish!

Polytheism - The inevitable choice for a sustainable future by Edward P Butler:

https://youtu.be/Syzx6VIhNW4