akratic's ERE journal

[1taskaday]

This is a fascinating issue to read.

Annoying really when "real-life" as regards to close-ones or “potential” close-ones futures could possibly be affected by one's “ERE”philosphey.

This is when it goes from being black and white to messy or grey....

[Ego]

Apply the ERE methodology to it. AKA, where there is a will there is a way.

I know Mexican families who live in Tijuana and have their kids attending some of the best schools in the San Diego area. Legally*. They just plan ahead.

http://www.greatschools.org/find-a-scho ... s?page=all


*more or less.

@Ego: my high school sweetheart was school choice, so I am familiar with the advantages, but living in a separate town from your friends and peers also comes with a number of downsides in terms of spontaneous interactions and connections etc.

How much are you willing to pay to eliminate that downside? Might there also be benefits to being an outsider?

[theanimal]

Setting them up for a great life by giving them the best of all possible worlds is a noble sentiment but what if your crap-factory of a child wants to grow up and be like theanimal and poop in the woods for a living? You've done hypothetical kid a great disservice by forcing it to live under your constraints. It's tough to plan your kid's life when it doesn't exist.

I think this is a powerful statement. Although personally I was late to the game in that I didn't realize I wanted to pursue this lifestyle until age 19. Before that I followed the traditional educational model and received a relatively high education. With that said, once I realized what I wanted, I didn't want anything to do with school or the traditional system at all. Luckily I found a way to graduate early.

Along with the others, I think you may be doing yourself a disservice by planning so far in advance. There are so many alternatives to the standard lifestyle in today's environment and you have a big chunk of time still ahead of you before you actually have to make a decision. I'm surprised nobody has brought up homeschooling. Anyways, I tend to think skills are (or at least can be) more valuable than connections.

[5to9]

I think that living near family while raising little ones can be a big benefit. But keep in mind that you have a few years after they arrive before worrying about school districts. This is an important point not just In the sense of deferring the choice, but because it wouldn't be surprising to find you have a very different set of criteria at that point. I know it changed me very significantly.

[jacob]

WRT educational "opportunities" ...
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5486

[Barlotti]

It seems to me like you miss Boston and that perhaps you miss MIT. Putting aside the hypothetical kids, maybe that's good enough reason to move here. But should you wish to continue your footloose and fancy free lifestyle and feel like your kids have a reasonable chance of getting into MIT, you may find the following interesting.

I grew up in a po dunk town in a mountain state, went to a party school eight miles from home, and got into MIT, which I loved and love to this day (so I understand why you might want your kids to go there). I think it was easier for me to get into MIT because I was a big fish in the small pond that said party school was. Let's also consider the experience of a graduate school friend who went to a state university in the town where her dad (who was, ahem, a *little* angry) worked the assembly line in an auto factory. That friend is now a Harvard professor. And then there's the graduate school friend, first in his family to complete college, who grew up in rural poverty, which frankly seems pretty damn bleak, who is now a professor. Or how about the graduate school friend who grew up in a Florida trailer park in trailer park poverty, which also seems pretty damn bleak, who is now a professor at Cambridge University, UK. And then there's that MIT graduate student in aerospace engineering who was so thrilled about his research project with NASA. His parents were migrant farm workers in California's central valley.

In my experience, MIT was and is filled with people who didn't have many advantages, but got into MIT on account of their resilience, adaptability, charisma, and intelligence. What I loved and still love about MIT is that MIT teaches by example, you can bend the rules and change the world if you use your smarts. Doesn't matter "who you are" (or aren't) or where you come from...

[Legthorn Brownboat]

It’s been helpful to see your journey. I’ve just read your entire journal from front to back (it’s a doozy), and I found so many nuggets of gold that I want to thank you for sharing.

Your post and linked material on authentic happiness (pleasure vs flow vs meaning) gave me a lot to think about. I think I might explore this a lot further, thanks for the tip! Did you ever read or investigate further than the TED talk? I think the speaker has a book on the subject.

You mentioned carrying out a wine tasting experiment to see if your friends could tell the difference between cheap and expensive wines. What was the outcome?

I played your Unity game. I seem to recall there being a minotaur instead of a robot… How are the games coming along?

I enjoyed your 3 paragraph treatise on playing video games. They are mastery in easy-mode, thus you get the high assuredness but struggle with the pointlessness of it all more. I guess other masteries could be considered pointless in other reasons, but they’re a little harder to shoot down. If you have any more insights in this area, due to your extra time to play and philosophize, please by all means share them!

Your horror story about 401k conversion to Roth IRA conversion is beneficial to hear, and helps me if I am ever in the situation. I think I’ll trade a little extra paperwork to avoid excessive taxes. I figure that if, post-FI, I ever have low-income years, then I’ll have the opportunity to roll over more. If I never have low-income years, then I’m doing pretty well for myself!

Your story of the 3 rich people for whom money hurt their lives, and the 1 for whom it enhanced theirs is interesting. The quote “If you are more fortunate than others, it's better to build a longer table than a taller fence” is inspiring. Thank you for sharing that, I feel like you’ve distilled a portion of your revelation to provide benefit to myself. I also enjoyed reading about your house-sitting and your thoughts on the American dream and family. You’re a few years ahead of me in life, and I’m benefiting from the discoveries and lessons you learned.

I resonate with your struggles with the inner-drive, which is responsible for success but also continual dissatisfaction. For you it seems to be a goal-focused hedonic adaptation, where each achievement must be more satisfying/impressive/lasting than the last. For me it’s a torment as I always know that I could/should of done more, and that no matter the extent to which I attain mastery, there's always a higher level that I stopped short of. I’m also looking forward to fatherhood as maybe a way to bump up the meaning portion of the pleasure-flow-meaning trichotomy.

In regards to you re-entering the cave in order to afford Boston. If you did, I wouldn’t think that you’ve somehow failed FI, or that you must slave away to reach the same relative level of FI as you are now. You’d have confidence that no matter what, you could find *some* way to make ends meet. A part-time job that barely makes ends meet, while not depleting your FI stash, could be perfectly acceptable. Who knows, maybe Boston isn’t a deal breaker. I’d re-iterate what others said about questioning the need for the best. Life at a top 1% school (as opposed to a top 0.1% school) offers more chances to rise above your peers, while still full of opportunities. The likewise extends to top 10% etc, but always with tradeoffs. Having a tiny bit of a journey to acquire the knowledge you want can be instill wisdom alongside the knowledge itself. By wisdom I mean “character” or even the skill of seeking out knowledge that isn’t readily handed to you. I remember the thrill of knowing something (e.g. computers) that your peers or even the adults around you didn't know to nearly the same depth.

Sorry to hijack, back to you, good luck on (and please continue to chronicle) your journey through your 30s!

[akratic]

Wow, quite the comment Legthorn Brownboat!

I haven't read more on pleasure vs flow vs meaning, but I do regularly consider all three categories in my decision making.

For the wine tasting, here was the group blind preference in order of most-liked to least-liked: $20 bottle, tie between box and $100 bottle, $10 bottle, $40 bottle, $3 bottle. I'll probably do the experiment again when we eventually move to Boston and become intentional about rebuilding our friend network.

I stalled out on creating a game when I realized I didn't have a particularly good idea. I'm also a little discouraged by the predominant way to make money from gaming these days (micro-transactions) being so unfriendly to users (see the South Park s18e06 : Freemium isn't Free).

I like how you paraphrased gaming as mastery in easy-mode with high assuredness but pointlessness. My thinking hasn't evolved too much. Recently I'm struggling with the following: if it's something I enjoy, and isn't hurting anyone else... why not? The main counter arguments I've seen are either
1) do things better for yourself in the long term, such as taking up training for a triathlon, etc
2) do things that help others
So I've seen people propose better uses of time, but I haven't seen a compelling argument that something you enjoy that doesn't hurt anyone is actually a bad use of time.

I think I answered most of your questions, and I wanted to let you know that I appreciated your comments, and other people's comments, as well, even if I don't find time to comment on all aspects of them. It's connecting with people like yourself that brings me back to the ERE forums.

[akratic]

After house sitting in France, we were tourists in Spain for a couple of weeks, then spent Thanksgiving with my family in Massachusetts and Christmas with my girlfriend's family in New York. Between the holidays we spent two weeks with my smart, frugal, and introverted Aunt up in Maine -- she's become quite lonely after losing her life partner two years ago.

The only significant changes to my finances are as follows:
- I got my first smart phone: the $100 upfront then $10/mo offering from Republic Wireless.
- I finally went through the trouble of moving my US address from Illinois (where I last had a job/apt) to Massachusetts (where my parents live). As a result of the move, my healthcare costs dropped to $0/mo, because at my income level the tax credit is more than the monthly cost of insurance. I feel a bit guilty getting healthcare for free, subsidized by other people paying more than their fair share. I guess I didn't make the rules though, and I've spent plenty of time on the other side of the deal.

We had been thinking about going to Colombia for January to March, but we hatched a new plan a few days ago: ski bums. A pass for unlimited skiing on weekdays for the rest of the winter is $529, so now we just need to acquire skis, boots, poles, and most importantly, housing near a ski mountain for a reasonable cost. The gear should be easy enough to find used on craigslist, but we're struggling to find a good deal on housing.

[akratic]

Operation ski bum is underway. We moved to Maine last week and have gone skiing three days so far. My legs are so sore that I can barely walk.

Here are the numbers for reference:
- $600/mo (each) for furnished 3br/1ba house + all utilities including internet, 10 minute drive from ski lodge
- $529 unlimited midweek season lift pass (monday-friday, no weekends or holidays)
- $364 for gear, detailed below:
------------------
- $100 used skis
- $65 used boots
- $20 used poles
- $50 new long underwear (heavy duty)
- $20 new wool ski socks
- $109 new ski helmet

The house and used stuff was from craigslist, the skis were from a friend, and the socks, long underwear and helmet I paid full retail price for. Across the 10 weeks, the pass and gear amortize to $357/mo, combine that $600/mo rent and say $240/mo food + gas + misc, and the last minute ski adventure should cost me about $1.2k/mo.

Having the resources to hatch an idea like this and then be doing it a couple of weeks later is pretty neat.

[theanimal]

That sure sounds like fun. Your legs are going to be in great shape for the AT!

[C40]

Awesome. Totally awesome

[mmoyborgen]

Wow - that's so cool. I remember living in New England as an AmeriCorps member and feeling sad I wasn't able to take up skiing/snowboarding/snowshoeing or some other winter sport.

Enjoy!

[akratic]

No matter how much we shake things up, routine seems to find us pretty quickly.

This routine involves skiing four days a week, avoiding crowded weekends as well as the seemingly weekly blizzard. My quads are often sore and have been growing. We are just recently venturing onto black advanced trails, having spent most of our time on blue intermediate trails.

Outside of skiing, we have been cooking often. I cook granola (oats, honey, vegetable oil, brown sugar, vanilla) for breakfast every day. My girlfriend cooks snacks, both healthy cookies (oats, bananas, chopped walnuts) and granola bars (oats, peanut butter, honey, almonds, craisins, chocolate chips). My girlfriend has also developed a fascination with the crockpot in our rental house, cooking pulled pork, shredded chicken, chili, and various soups for dinner. We have spent zero dollars at the ski lodge, and been to zero restaurants and zero bars, which makes us quite unusual ski bums. Our skill at creating food geared to our tastes is reaching a level where to eat at a restaurant would be nothing short of a sacrifice.

Other than that we watch about 1.5 hours of Netflix together a day and spend inordinate amounts of time on our laptops. Sometimes my laptop time is vaguely productive, such as time spent learning about tiny houses (I liked the hOMe and then the Minim) and then learning the free 3D modeling program called Sketchup. Another somewhat productive thing I did is finalize my AT 2015 gear list and order the tent, quilt, and backpack. Often times, however, the laptop time is entirely wasted. I think I had it in my head that I would relax "for a while" and then be on to great things, but it seems my capacity for relaxation is infinite, and that the great things may never come.

[anomie]

Heya Akratic -

We watched Wild(2014) recently. Good flick about hiking the Pacific Crest Trail. Could be inspiration for your AT trip. Good luck!

[akratic]

@ffj yeah those tiny house layouts are so slick. Personally I'll probably never have a tiny house because I plan to have a family, but considering what they can do with 200 sqft, it makes me think I can comfortably fit a family of four in say a 700 sqft condo that has been similarly optimized.

@anomie I'm looking forward to the Netflix/DVD release of Wild!

[m741]

@akratic - I'd be interested to hear about your 'infinite relaxation'. The way I've been visualizing entering ERE is to 'detox' for 6-8 weeks after leaving the job (basically, just read, cook, catch up on good TV, and finish up post-job paperwork) and then to start working on some project.

I felt this way as I estimated that length until I got antsy without having some sort of project (either writing a book, editing short films, seriously studying something, or whatever). But, it's also something I felt without any evidence. After all, I haven't retired yet, so don't know what to expect.

So, I'm curious - did you feel similarly prior to retiring? Do you feel 'guilty' about just relaxing, or are you just taking it one step at a time? Do you foresee things changing, or do you think you'll relax until you start the AT (which isn't so far away, just 2-3 months)?

[Tyler9000]

I think I had it in my head that I would relax "for a while" and then be on to great things, but it seems my capacity for relaxation is infinite, and that the great things may never come.

From my perspective, these ARE the great things! Maybe they'll evolve over time, but you're living an exceptional life that the typical cubicle dweller can barely fathom. Enjoy the moment and don't box yourself in with antiquated definitions of productivity. I'm not convinced you can actively generate purpose - it finds you.

[akratic]

@ffj, thanks

@Tyler, I didn't see your comment until after composing the monstrosity below; I think I'll need to come back to it.

@m741, I had a similar plan, detox for a bit and then do something cool. If traveling/skiing/hiking counts as something cool, then I guess I succeeded. But really, they're not that cool. I think I had this vague idea that I'd use FI as a springboard to transform into Ironman or Elon Musk or something totally badass.

Say it's Friday night or Saturday morning of a three day weekend... do you ever use all the free time you have coming up as an excuse to just play video games or aimlessly browse the internet? I'm kind of permanently in that state, the first day of a three day weekend. I do have guilt about not using my time better. Not enough guilt to actually make a prolonged changes in my behavior, but enough guilt to sometimes feel bad about what I've done (or more specifically, haven't done).

I do get bursts of motivation and start projects, such as learning to speak Spanish, creating a video game, teaching myself a new programming language, inventing an AI for something, etc. But I lack the follow through to push these projects all the way to completion. When the going gets tough I just quit. I can't be bothered.

I'm not historically a flaky person. Like when the going got tough in my education or my career or my quest for a significant other or my pursuit of FI, I pushed on through. Those things mattered though, whereas the projects I invent for myself really don't. Who cares if I hike the AT or not? I'll probably do it anyway for lack of a better plan, but like, there's a certain meaning or purpose that I'm missing at the moment.

It might sound like I'm depressed, but I don't consider myself depressed. I'm profoundly grateful for how good I have it. I mean everything is really good, I've got the girl, the freedom, the health, the supportive family, the interesting friends, the money, the life experiences, etc. I'm remarkably lucky and privileged. Whatever I want I can pretty much have. Actually if there was something I wanted that I couldn't have it'd almost be a good thing, it'd be something to fight for.

I am lost though. Anyway, you asked whether I expect this life organized around relaxation to change, and my answer is no, I don't.

For one thing I have such severe distrust in my own ability to act rationally that I named myself akratic, the adjective form of akrasia, which is a concept from philosophy that tries to understand why people act against their own judgement, such as the smoker who knows he should quit but doesn't.

For another thing, I don't really have a good reason *not* to spend downtime on my laptop. Even though I didn't contribute, I watched the recent thread on Video Games and TV in ERE with a lot of interest. As usual, I think jacob said it best when he distinguished these activities from other activities that either 1) provide value for yourself in the future or 2) provide value for others. I will say though that once you have your life set up pretty much how you want it, there's seriously diminishing returns on your ability to provide value to your future-self.

I do often think that instead of relaxing I should be providing value to others, but I haven't figured out a good way to do it. I think part of the challenge is I don't naturally fit into any existing religious or political groups, so I can't just slot myself into some existing movement. Instead I probably have to blaze my own trail, and I take inspiration from jacob with ERE, MMM with MMM, Sal Khan with Khan Academy, the guy who invented wikipedia, etc. But I haven't yet found my own mission, my own ERE or wikipedia or what have you.

So I guess my final answer is that I expect this "infinite relaxation" to continue until I find myself compelled and absorbed by something larger than myself... or I start a family (which I expect to be challenging and meaningful.)

[akratic]

@Tyler9000, your advice is similar to what I'd say to someone else, but I tend to be harsher on myself!

I think I was just in a lousy mood the last time I updated my journal. I've been living the same life and really enjoying it recently. Over the course of this ski season we've progressed from beginner green trails, to cautious on blue intermediate trails, to bombing down blues, to cautious on advanced black single diamond trails, to bombing down black single diamonds. My friend recently convinced me to install an app that tracks the GPS and altitude while you ski, and my stats are 20mph average speed, 39mph sustained speed, and 45mph max speed.

Skiing pretty much has it all actually: exhilarating, time outdoors, good workout, and bonding time on lifts. I'm sad that our time skiing will be over soon. I looked into the price of ski condos and was surprised how cheap they are. I'm sure that for most people these ski condos are 2nd or 3rd houses, but you could have it as your primary residence and go hiking and mountain biking in the summer. Here are the lifetime costs (purchase price + property taxes and hoa fees at 3% withdrawal) for a ski-on ski-off condo at my mountain:
- studio: $154k
- 1BR: $261k

Not only do these numbers cover housing for the rest of your life, but they also cover entertainment and exercise!

I think my current restlessness is downstream of the realization that the accomplishments of my future will probably be less impactful than the accomplishments of my past (finding the right life partner, proving myself at MIT and in my career, and achieving financial independence). But I guess this is almost the inevitable result of tackling life's biggest problems first.

Anyway, our last day skiing is March 19th, then I'll be at the ERE meetup March 21st, and then fly to Atlanta on March 25th to start the AT. The biggest thing I have left to do for the AT is find 30+ books for my Kindle that I want to read over the course of the next few months.

I'm inspired by the animal cruising through jacob's ERE book list. I may try to do the same, but I already read most of the ones I could find at the library back when I was obsessed with ERE. I want to read Overshoot in particular, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to have a Kindle version.

I also found this list of classics as voted by the web: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/264 ... Least_Once

Please let me know if you have a good way to find good books to read. I have to acquire them all up front before the hike begins.