Although I wouldn't ordinarily comment here, I just returned from a fight with my mother's post-op rehab center. They wanted to keep her well beyond doctor's orders. Good insurance plus empty beds means pressure, it borders on false imprisonment. So I'm agitated enough as it is.
Some observations here:
First, Medicare does not pay all the bills or premiums; average out of pocket costs are well over $200 per month per person:
http://www.newretirement.com/Planning10 ... Costs.aspx
Medicare does not mean an end to insurance premiums; it's only the beginning between part A, part B and Medigap-type insurance, not to mention long term care, which is separate. All will continue to go up beyond the rate of inflation.
Second, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks here because mathematically the U.S. system (bubble) will implode, fast crash or slow crash but it's going. It's a matter of arithmetic rather than politics or statist vs. free market rhetoric. And when it does, you will see all the hidden subsidies that the U.S. provides to other national health care systems disappear, particularly prescription drugs, medical equipment and U.S. medical treatment for non-citizens.
I agree with @Maus that tying insurance to employment is wrong. I live in NY which compels coverage of pre-existing conditions with the expected higher premiums, which I gladly accept if it's an either/or choice. On a more practical note, insurance premiums are also deductible for self-employed persons, which is one reason I believe that building and maintaining an ever-so-modest independent income stream is an important part of long term financial viability, similar to working part time for the benefits. That and doing everything possible to avoid dependence on the health care system (I believe @Bigato is the biggest advocate of this approach). Yes, I know very well that it's not always possible, I've lost two people to complications from diabetes, but there is nothing to lose in keeping at it.
Obamacare R.I.P.
Three shocking statistics:
1) According to the CDC 75% of all healthcare spending in the U.S. is the result of chronic conditions.
2) CDC again: Most chronic conditions are the result of four behavioral factors: smoking, diet, inactivity, and alcohol.
3) The unhealthiest 5% of Americans account for 50% of all healthcare costs in the U.S.
We are slowly committing suicide and bankrupting ourselves in the process.
For any U.S. healthcare system to be successful it must reconnect actions with consequences. We've got to make it more difficult and more expensive to be a smoking, overeating, sedentary, drunk.
Obamacare does the opposite. It brings more dollars into the system by forcing healthy people to pay high premiums in order to subsidize the willfully unhealthy.
This goes directly to the mindset and character of the average America. Why are we willfully unhealthy? Why do we lack self-control?
And what is kindness? What is compassion? Is it kind and compassionate to ENABLE people to commit slow suicide? Is a system compassionate when it forces a healthy person to pay more so that the unhealthy person can afford to buy the very things that are killing him/her?
The kindest, most compassionate thing a healthy person can do is refuse to participate in a system like that.
1) According to the CDC 75% of all healthcare spending in the U.S. is the result of chronic conditions.
2) CDC again: Most chronic conditions are the result of four behavioral factors: smoking, diet, inactivity, and alcohol.
3) The unhealthiest 5% of Americans account for 50% of all healthcare costs in the U.S.
We are slowly committing suicide and bankrupting ourselves in the process.
For any U.S. healthcare system to be successful it must reconnect actions with consequences. We've got to make it more difficult and more expensive to be a smoking, overeating, sedentary, drunk.
Obamacare does the opposite. It brings more dollars into the system by forcing healthy people to pay high premiums in order to subsidize the willfully unhealthy.
This goes directly to the mindset and character of the average America. Why are we willfully unhealthy? Why do we lack self-control?
And what is kindness? What is compassion? Is it kind and compassionate to ENABLE people to commit slow suicide? Is a system compassionate when it forces a healthy person to pay more so that the unhealthy person can afford to buy the very things that are killing him/her?
The kindest, most compassionate thing a healthy person can do is refuse to participate in a system like that.
@Hoplite
"you will see all the hidden subsidies that the U.S. provides to other national health care systems disappear, particularly prescription drugs, medical equipment and U.S. medical treatment for non-citizens."
I definitely agree with the first one and a little on the second, but I would have to see the numbers on the 3rd in relation to countries with universal healthcare. Most of the illegals here are not from countries with universal healthcare.
"you will see all the hidden subsidies that the U.S. provides to other national health care systems disappear, particularly prescription drugs, medical equipment and U.S. medical treatment for non-citizens."
I definitely agree with the first one and a little on the second, but I would have to see the numbers on the 3rd in relation to countries with universal healthcare. Most of the illegals here are not from countries with universal healthcare.
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secretwealth
- Posts: 1948
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:31 am
Ego: One study suggests the exact opposite--smokers, alcoholics, and the inactive use less healthcare, and are thus cheaper. Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/healt ... .html?_r=2
Perhaps a new free market product(s) will become available... I'd LOVE to buy insurance that covers physical damage from accidents only... I'm pretty sure the govt would likely step in and protect me from said choice however.
Hoplite said it. We're clearly in bubble territory... Boomers ready for retirement. No offense to any boomers, but boomers in my family have virtually zero financial resources having banked EVERYTHING on promises from govt/employers.
It's not going to be pretty.
Hoplite said it. We're clearly in bubble territory... Boomers ready for retirement. No offense to any boomers, but boomers in my family have virtually zero financial resources having banked EVERYTHING on promises from govt/employers.
It's not going to be pretty.
SecretWealth, let me get this straight.... you are arguing that we should continue to enable (encourage) people to live horribly unhealthy lives because - according to a Dutch study - unhealthy people cost the system less because they live fewer years?
That is changing fast, mind you. Many of our recent breakthroughs in medical care actually cure nothing. They simply do a better job of managing chronic conditions which allows people to continue indulging in the bad habits that create the chronic conditions. A vicious cycle if ever there was one.
That is changing fast, mind you. Many of our recent breakthroughs in medical care actually cure nothing. They simply do a better job of managing chronic conditions which allows people to continue indulging in the bad habits that create the chronic conditions. A vicious cycle if ever there was one.
I just can't imagine that an unhealthy life costs more than a healthy one, regardless of age... Not to mention who is more likely to assume responsibility to fix their own problem? Who is going to outsource effort and responsibility?
Aren't 50% of health care costs spent in the last year of life? I know Jacob has mentioned/cited a similar figure before.
Aren't 50% of health care costs spent in the last year of life? I know Jacob has mentioned/cited a similar figure before.
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jennypenny
- Posts: 6910
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm
Well, (hopefully) the wait is over this week. At this point, I would take any decision or any version of Obamacare just so we can plan for the future. The worst (for us) would be if they threw out the challange and made them start the process over. It is almost impossible to plan for DH's retirement with the uncertainty surrounding healthcare costs and tax rates after 1/1/13.