Re: People who are already retired: why do you something, instead of nothing?
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:16 pm
I didn't know Lawrence Pearsall Jacks, thanks for the cue.
---an online community leveraging 14 years of experience in resilient post-consumerist praxis
https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com/
https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com/viewtopic.php?t=12763
So here's my thinking on this one right now. Let's take something that for me personally is behind a wall of suck - exercise. The suck is both physical, as in, i am unfit so effort sucks, and psychological. So, proper wall of suck.Scott 2 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:06 pmHow do you reach the good behind the suck, following this strategy? Human tendency to overly discount future value seems prone to short circuit the process. I say this as someone who does suck every day, typically with no inherent reward. I'd much prefer a path where I enjoy every step along the way.
Many good things I have, were behind a large wall of suck. Years of it some cases.
Do you have examples of this strategy, that have worked in your life? Maybe it's a selection bias, but those I look to for leadership tend to embrace the grind.
My first thought when reading through this thread is Csikszentmihalyi's idea of flow, particularly the chart that shows how challenges and abilities intersect to produce a particular state. To me, the "effortless fun" that is described in this thread's examples sounds the same as flow.mountainFrugal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:34 pmAs I understand the answers to this thread there is a bit of effortless fun to most activities that people do mentioned above, or they have gotten good enough at whatever the activities are that part or all of it feels effortless. Another way to look at it is you can train yourself to feel comfortable with being uncomfortable for things like physical activities. So while this might appear like effort to an outsider, it is actually just a built in habit and more effortless like your MTG playing.
I guess this concept of "effort" is a good one to pick apart. Because there is effort as in doing hard things towards an outcome, and effort as in struggling against resistance, and while 1 is often pleasant and fulfilling, 2 is utter misery.mountainFrugal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:34 pmAs I understand the answers to this thread there is a bit of effortless fun to most activities that people do mentioned above
When you read about the giants of the arts world (music, painting, literature), it turns out that a lot of them were really maladjusted in their youth, and they've channeled their adolescent male energy (domination with skill over other men Conan the Barbarian-style) into getting better at this one thing that will either bring them back into graces of other people, or will be their "revenge" on them etc. This fueled them through the initial years a grind required to master the craft at the basic level. It's seems to be a very common pattern.
I would note that this is also clearly part of the motivational energy towards FI as evidenced by the phrase "FU money." Nobody likes being submissive within a structure that is not in great alignment with self-interest. OTOH, humans pay good money to obtain structure to which they can submit when they judge it to be in alignment with self-interest. For instance, when my sister (who is much better at practicing piano and fitness routines than me) and I decided that the health plan for our micro-business would be annual membership at hot yoga studio. Put on yoga clothes-drive to studio is much easier to do (much less inertia to overcome) than making myself work out.zbigi wrote:it turns out that a lot of them were really maladjusted in their youth, and they've channeled their adolescent male energy (domination with skill over other men Conan the Barbarian-style) into getting better at this one thing that will either bring them back into graces of other people, or will be their "revenge" on them etc.
Oh, I've definitely daydreamed about plenty of things while on the job. But, when I had plenty of the time to do them, they just didn't seem all that engaging or worthwhile. The daydreaming was strictly a "grass is greener" kind of coping mechanism it seems.WFJ wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 12:13 amI've seen this on a few FIRE blogs and have no idea how those with free time can't find something interesting to do? In just about every job, I would often daydream during meetings about how much I'd rather be doing almost anything else and always had a long list of activities if my current employer imploded the next day. Don't even have any hypothesis on why this exists in FIRE people.
I often think about it, it’s a sort of stoic exercise. Other than in time, also helpful to zoom out in geopolitical space and contrast one’s life to the poorer 90-99% of people. Lots of privilege here, lots and lots. There are some forumites who approach ERE from a different end than salaryman, would be great if they chipped in. Or a salaryman context other than WEIRD. Like @fiby41 for example.
I believe royalty quite often were bored to death, actually. They didn't have any imediate problems to deal with (apart from perhaps not being out-schemed, poisoned etc. by relatives) so it was up to them to come up with ways to pass the time. It was all before well TV, video games, podcasts, nice cities, consumption as distraction, so easy and effortless options were very limited.
Hm, does this boil down to problem solving versus solution finding? Reacting versus choosing responses? Granted, life has challenges and it would be skillful to address them, but do I need to be addicted to the drama of constant searching for problems (and even creating them) to solve? No. I find that sometimes the boredom of doing “nothing” gives clarity to move forward to “something.” For me, the solution is balance and enough despite the option (and conditioning or even impulse) to seek busy and more.