white belt wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:35 pm
Yeah this is why I’m not convinced that buying organic/grass fed is any better for the environment.
wellll... organic reduces pesticide use and petrochemical fertilizers which have effects beyond the farm.
grass fed is healthier to eat, and less cruel for the animals who actually live like they're supposed to rather than penned up in the muck and fattened with corn and antibiotics.
it's better also for water, the soil, etc, like @western cedar mentions.
i mean, if we all just ate the grass-fed cattle that could be supplied by existing natural pastures, it would be ideal for humans and better animals. problem is i believe our demand exceeds pasture capacity. so we feed the cows corn and soybeans and pump them with antibiotics.
and so brazilian ranchers are burning the amazon to turn it into savanna--pastures! hah... a lot of cows grow grass-fed in the range and are grain finished in pens to increase their weight. paying more for grass fed... reduces the incentive to fatten up (maybe). but the incentive to burn down the amazon is not gone.
anyway for me the #1 pareto reduction at this point is to reduce beef
demand. that bit alone makes a huge difference. gonna stick to this for now.
white belt wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:35 pm
I maybe could see how buying locally raised meat could be better due to reduced miles that the food has to travel to your plate.
right, but in the particular case of beef the majority of emissions are from the belly not from transport. that tasty tripe in the menudo... that's the culprit
(actually in all seriousness it's the bacteria that live in there)
so yeah... ruminants generate methane just by being ruminants.
white belt wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:35 pm
Organic/grass fed meats and vegetables are less productive per acre due to slower growth rates and losses from pests (at least for veggies), which means they require more inputs.
eh... th... this is a lot more complicated than that. some of it has to do with the nitrogen cycle that was mentioned elsewhere... green revolution agriculture is dependent on petrochemical fertilizers that require extraction from the ground, effluent is often noxious and destructive, externalities are significant (eg see bees and almonds).
but again, there are issues of sheer capacity, and how much of our agriculture goes to feed animals. especially, again... cows.
white belt wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:35 pm
Factory farmed animals also are kept in smaller enclosures so they expend less calories, meaning it takes less feed to get them to harvest weight.
yah. and they're rubbery and taste like shit too
seriously there is some vile tasting weirdly textured chicken with soft rubbery bones out there. i've eaten my share. i'd prefer not to again...
white belt wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:35 pm
I’ve heard the argument somewhere that allowing free ranging of chickens doesn’t actually save any feed costs because their consumption of bugs is offset by the calories expended to forage all day (not sure if I’ve seen hard data on this though).
maybe.... but it's a healthier animal. just like you're healthier exercising and spending time outdoors.imagine having to live cooped up in sarcophagus eating medicated food and sitting in your own shit all day. gross.
vat meat if done right could be a lot cleaner than the factory and also maybe more efficient.
i've raised chickens. they like to move. so i prefer to pay a farmer that lets their chickens run around, and i know that it costs more because there are fewer hidden externalities.
white belt wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:35 pm
There’s also the issue that spending more might just reverberate through the economy and lead to increased consumption.
i am not sure that i can subscribe to the economic theory that purchasing only inferior goods decreases our environmental impact. because many of our cheapest goods are in fact mispriced by ignoring externalities like the environment, bad labor practices, tyrannical regimes, corporate abuses, the true cost of fossil fuels, etc.
i think paying for quality in food is a good investment.
white belt wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:35 pm
As others have said in this thread, the issue is complicated. The earth has too many people eating too much meat. Yet going completely plant-based brings on it’s own challenges.
yes, it is very complicated. there are many contradictions. a lot is hard to compute. so the temptation to give up completely is big. but i just can't help caring about food and what it takes to make it plus our effect on wildlife plus health etc. so i keep trying things.
white belt wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:35 pm
In terms of animal proteins, your best bet to minimize footprint is dairy and eggs. This of course along with substituting plant-based proteins into your diet as much as possible.
eggs yes, dairy... im not sure. but yeah i eat eggs for breakfast and dairy for lunch and/or dinner. i'm aware of my limitations... will seek further optimization as the brain and body get accustomed.
as for plant protein... at least now i've found "80% satisfactory party meats".