Early Retirement Extreme Forums

@George: My freshman year I went to a university known for teachers & nurses, over two thirds female. It was a good year; 6 credits.

My DW and I met in college, so while there were some (cheap) dinners, the vast majority of our "dating" time was spent doing walks, hanging out watching TV/movies, and playing board games. We married (and had kids) right after college so pretty much our entire relationship has revolved around cheap activities.

If there's a park and coffee shop near one another, that would be ideal when weather is nicer. Buy the fancy beverage and then talk a stroll in the park. Market it as "it'll be easier to talk if we go outside". Pretty much any coffee shop I've been in (not many) is loud. Way too loud to actually talk comfortably, especially as strangers.

@George: True. I'm not sure how to put it, but what I'm thinking of is, there might be 20 girls in a yoga class and one guy, but that one guy in the yoga class is unlikely to be the only option for any of those girls. My point is that competition (in terms of the ratio of men pursuing/interested in any particular woman) is a given in dating and will only increase with your mate's value, so the high ratio of men to women on dating sites, the selectiveness of women in responding, etc, is nothing unique or different from dynamics in the real world IMO.

I agree that dating sites are a "seller's market", where perceived scarcity drives up value, but I would say the same thing of your average single's bar as the night draws on, or many other venues single people use to find each other. The same dynamics are going to play out everywhere. I don't see a fundamental difference in terms of the quality of mates available, and since the basic principles--competing with other romantic interests, figuring out who the person really is versus what they say, etc--seem the same to me, I'd just as soon stick to the one that plays to my strengths and preferences (written communication, clear(er) intentions of both parties, minimal cost of entry, etc). That said, I don't want to derail the thread unnecessarily. What works for some may not work for others and all that.

Oh yay now we're talking about social capital?

I think it's a great thing to look at. Women in our culture naturally have more erotic capital than men (see: Erotic Capital by Catherine Hakim). Or, to put it another way, there's a global male sex deficit - so, guys, there is a strong chance that this may not be an "even" exchange.

A friend of mine openly trolls for sugar daddies on dating sites. She meets guys and straight up tells them she requires a high degree of attention and emotional intimacy, "but if you're not up for that money's okay too."

Even if most women might not define it that clearly, I think this is basically how it is in our culture.

I know this is bording on the cliche*, but I really think one thing that helps is to stop trying so hard. I'm not going to knock on-line dating, because it does work -- I have plenty of friends who have met great people-- but it wasn't working for me. After two years of cycling the dating sites and singles scene, I finally just said "fuck it" and stopped trying so hard. Guess who got approached (?!?!?) by a nice and cute woman a few weeks later while "not trying so hard"?

It's cliche, but I think it has a basis in fact. If you read anything on the physcology/game theory of the dating scene desperation is a major turn-off, and trying too hard can inadvertently look like desperation.

@Cael said: "Frugality on a date might be mistaken for lack of effort."

Just wanted to say I strongly agree with this and that it may tie into what JohnnyH said regarding online dating: if you say you're not materialistic and list your income in a bottom bracket, it cripples female interest. I tend to think this is because when you say something like "I'm not materialistic" and list your income as 20,000 or below, most people will jump to the conclusion that you are merely a slacker/loser. That description would also apply to any number of McDonalds employees living with their parents, up to their eyeballs in debt, with no skills or direction for the future. Of course few people will want to date that!

This is why my policy has been to never hide or obfuscate my early retirement plans or what they mean to me. I don't think of this as a liability to hide but as a proud indicator of my financial savvy, determination, work ethic, and family-oriented priorities.

Presentation matters. Show the good side of what ERE has to offer, not (just) the "No, I won't pay for your dinner" side.


@Riparian: "Women in our culture naturally have more erotic capital than men (see: Erotic Capital by Catherine Hakim). Or, to put it another way, there's a global male sex deficit - so, guys, there is a strong chance that this may not be an "even" exchange."

Yeah, I think this is more what I was talking about with regard to competition. Guys will always have to "work for it" and compete, with fewer available options, and the women with the most social/erotic capital/value will always be heavily competed over, and therefore always have options. I don't think online dating changes these basic dynamics in any substantial way--aside from making the competition and the ratios more obvious, maybe. Dating simply is one big "seller's market" IMO.

squirty cream/chocolate sauce/strawberry sauce

cheap, fun and messy, just turn the thermostat up for the shower after, it takes a special person to have a kinky cold shower

oh and keep lifting brah for dem gainz and it could be for a first date otherwise 2nd or 3rd

My favorite cheap dates:

Sunset picnics
Full moon walks
Throwing a Frisbee or going to a playground.
Art Gallery openings/talks
Free/cheap college sports
Bike rides
Dance to real music or take lessons. Swing, salsa, tango, and contra all have good groups

I think lots of online women appreciate a creative idea. A meal and drinks is usually both expensive and boring.
I would also be excited to hear more winter date ideas. When the weather is colder, cheap dates seem harder.

Seems like 80% of my first dates were drinks, followed by dinner... I can see how that can get pricey if you're in a big city... Happy hour, festivals, brewery tours make for effective, not terribly expensive 1st dates, IMO.

If that went well 2nd date can be some inexpensive activity... Definitely feels like it's expected to demonstrate you're not destitute on date 1... Not murderer, have job. Advance to date level 2.

some Onion comedy (interestingly enough theonion has its own online dating portal):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA1sgSgwyYY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5StHRrfUKgk

In a 6 yr relationship without any dating. Guess I got maybe lucky? Time will tell I suppose.

To be honest I don't even understand dating.... Back 10 years ago when I met the wife at university I remember I went to lectures, went to the gym, ate, parties, clubs and slept and football. That's all I did. There were so many ladies around. I just felt like a big alpha wolf on the prowl sniffing it out.Dating just seems so inefficient.

There are woman everywhere and from what i've seen so far parties, clubs and sports arenas tend to be the worse venues to practice your PUA sklls and mundane places like university best. All Hnnnnggg chicks tend to hang out in the library.

Parties and clubs are best for an easy lay but once you are over 20 you get that out of your system - ho's are for bro's. You can't really trust party people.

Gym experiences were kinda of interesting as it was a uni gym but it was kind of full of fat people walking on the treadmill. WTF? wallking on a treadmill, or like climbing those stair machines. so if you like chubby men or women

Eating - I had a food pass in my first year and a shared kitchen. I met to many fake vegetarians (who are chicken lol or just ate cheese) and messy people or people with terrible table manners.

Most woman I know are desperate for the vitamin D injections, most men I know are desperate to give vitamin D. Everything else is just a minor detail.

You just have to workout what you want then go get it, everything else is mere detail. fter a while you will get it, you're supposed to enjoy the chase.

From what I have experienced woman just love to meet people who live well inspite of or depsite their means

Jacob beat me to the main point, which is: you tend to find people you enjoy at the activities you enjoy, for the simple reason that their reasons for engaging in them might align with yours (notice I didn't say "will").

Forget online dating, like with bars and clubs and any place "made" for the meeting of men and women (which constitute the obvious exception to my first paragraph), it's conceived to be so women, not men, get their pick. You will be up against any number of men with higher perceived value as well as the proverbial "players" who, will waltz in an take off with the girls. What's more about online dating, you never know who else the girl is writing to.

I wouldn't focus on the idea of a date as having to be "cheap". Look at it this way: you have adopted a certain lifestyle. You know what you enjoy, i.e. the things you do for fun. As you said, most of them might be solitary, but I'm sure some can be stretched to make room for one more (although this is hard for me too). The idea here is that if a woman turns you down because of your activity idea or makes it clear she doesn't want to keep dating you because she perceived whatever it was your did as cheap, move on. The world is full of women and you don't really need to waste your time on those who have other goals in mind (read: sugar daddy).

With my two exes, first dates were:

-Getting lost in a forest on a thursday morning. She brought a bottle of rhum, we drank it before noon, but found our way back. That was great
-Climb a hill, make a fire and grill a saucage. Didn't manage to start the fire.

I always proposed things I wanted to do by myself, but didn't took the time to do yet.
This way you make sure that the date won't be a complete loss of time.
And as they accepted such a date, it was quite sure that relationship would be interesting. It was.
The least compromise I was doing, the happyer I was.
Maybe it's a good thing to make some sacrifice to hold your marriage, but if before even knowing someone, you have to drag yourself to a bar, that doesn't seem good.
Well, that's the same point again.

This thread has really gone off the rails, LOL.

Re: online dating and stating up front that you're frugal... if this cripples a woman's interest, she's the wrong woman for you. Period. I think the only thing you need to worry about in that direction is potentially giving the impression that your life revolves around your finances. I can't speak for every woman, but personally it's always been more important to me that a man has money in perspective than that he "has money."

For instance, it would be a plus to see a man making responsible financial decisions like looking for inexpensive ways to spend time with me, particularly if I were privileged to know about his goals. But it would be a HUGE minus if I felt like he couldn't make Any. Decision. Whatsoever. without thinking about money. That would register with me personally as coldness and greed. Money is a means to an end. The end is more important than the money.

If you can find something that you both like doing (or at least agree to try doing) that does not cost money and gives you pleasure (this line of thought may be leading somewhere I didn't intend to take it so *other* than the obvious ) then that is a great start. DH and I are about to get going with rennovating a part-wrecked house and doing it up. Its part of the financial plan but its made us realise how much we like making things happen together.

In my experience women value time spent with them, listening/talking, learning/doing new things together that you both like or want to do (or revisiting things that they may not have done for a while), thoughfulness. These things don't cost money.

I would add that for any frugal-friendly woman, as GandK says:

it would be a plus to see a man making responsible financial decisions

Especially if they have previously been on the receiving end of bad financial decisions.

Find something that you would like to do and then look out for someone who might be persuaded to try it with you. So look out for events that appeal to you that might be more fun with another person. That is a great start and need not be seen as a date, but could well become one. Added bonus is that if you impress one woman then even if she is not available or you don't match she will often have friends who she would like to 'match' you up with.

Having now been with DH for 30+ years my dating knowledge is not current. We met playing darts (English pub game) and he was notable in not being put off if I was winning.

"Frugal" is a cuss word in English. Right or wrong, it's simply bad marketing to use it.

+1 for internet dating. If you have deal breakers, get them filtered out in the beginning. In my case, I wanted to filter out smokers and breeders, only the internet will allow that level of filtering. It was 100% effective. I met my wife on yahoo personals nearly 8 years ago, on my first internet date. So, in my case, the crazies and losers were what I was finding with other efforts. Keep that in mind as I give my dating advice:

Figure out what you want and don't want. Until you know this, try anything that comes to mind. Women are 51% of the population, sample and learn. When you figure out what you want, look for her where she'll be. In my case, I wanted a geeky introvert. The internet was where I should look.

As for the cheap date issue, that's all wrong. You should be looking for an interactive activity. And pointing out that you want to get to know her, not get her drunk/ eat dinner, should suffice for wanting to forego dinner/drinks/movie.



Under no circumstances should you allow ERE tendencies to get you confused with the shiftless loser living in mom's basement that every woman has been trained to despise since grade school. Even the crazy guy in a treehouse has it going on by comparison to that guy.
If this seems to serious, or too much work, go back to sampling and learning by negative example.

What do you do in the winter? Where do you like to be in foul weather? Now how do you make that a group activity? There are meetup groups for anything and everything. Meet her there.

Once you reach an age where the majority of your peers are married or otherwise spoken for, internet dating is pretty much the only practical way to go these days. I agree that using a strong filter will prove effective. Mine was something like "The traits I seek in a man are the three "I"s; intelligence, initiative and biceps." Relevant moral lesson being "Be careful what you wish for, little girl, or you will surely get it."

One of the known dysfunctions of intimate long term relationships is the tendency to be driven to opposite corners on any value. For instance, two people might only vary slightly in their house-keeping habits when they first meet but 20 years later one of them will have become the Nazi-Neatnik and the other one will be the Slacker-Slob. Thrift or frugality is definitely a value-which-is-also-a-tool-and-therefore-can-be-used-as-weapon so take this into consideration also because it may be the case that you would prefer to be with somebody who wouldn't give you grief if you wished to purchase a motorcycle someday. IOW, your compatibility with another person in terms of current preferences or practices may prove to be less indicative of future happiness in relationship than their overall ability to be flexible and/or respectful of the differing preferences of other(s) and your mutual ability to come to a basic agreement/contract about how future disagreements will be resolved. IOW, instead of focusing on the details, my advice to you (which would be the same advice I would offer my young adult children) would be that what you want is somebody who is strong enough in their "juvenile" to be able to learn and grow and deal with inevitable change and somebody who is strong enough in their "adult" to be able to make and keep good contract.

(a note first - I wish I would have started this thread by asking only about cheap dates. A separate thread would've worked better for asking about how to meet people)

I’ve been seeing a woman for the last month. Met her from Tinder (which I like. It is VERY simple. Physical attractiveness is emphasized by its simplicity, but you get more message responses so you can sort out the person then)

We’ve been together often – maybe 15 times (easier b/c I didn’t work for 2 weeks during).

Here are the dates that included incremental spending:
- Bottle at wine bar - $25 (first meeting)
- Drinks at bars - $25 (my choice)
- Dinner out - $85 (She eventually requested it)

Free dates:
- At my house (or her apt) – meals, drinks, sometimes a Netflix movie. (this exclusively about 8 times)
- Went to the art museum (it’s free)
- Picnic at the park with a $3 bottle of wine she picked at the grocery store.
- Afternoon and dinner with her parents and siblings (their house)
- Out for NYE (free drinks because of her friend)


So for close to 15 times seeing her, that’s $135. That might not be any more than what I would’ve spent doing my own thing all of that time. The summer will be easier when there is so much more to do outside.