Early Retirement Extreme Forums

The "good" man Trump pardoned:
https://twitter.com/phoenixnewtimes/sta ... 4087334914

Good article Brute, thanks!

BRUTE wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:55 pm

https://medium.com/@DaleBeran/4chan-the ... 4e7cb798cb

I've met young (mid-late 20s) men who could not explain their support for trump in any way except memes.

brute thinks memes are in part just tribal signals to define an in-group vs. out-group. just like yelling things like "living wage" indicates belonging to the Bernie-group, or "did he SERIOUSLY just assume my gender?" indicates belonging to another.

and tribalism is what most humans vote for.

The "good" man Trump pardoned:
https://twitter.com/phoenixnewtimes/sta ... 4087334914

Eh. The Phoenix news times is only in business because of joe. Their business model for 25 years has been to decry everything he does in tabloid detail with tabloid accuracy.

Which is not to say that joe wasn't guilty of contempt, or worthy of contempt.

What I am saying is this is going to be a long 4 years if you go into a fit of yapping every time trump tries to yank your chain. In the scale of all the horrible ways The Douchebag could damage us, wasting a pardon in month 7 on a contempt of court charge against a political windbag seems a fine use of his time.

Now if we could just get him some firecrackers, a magnifying glass, an anthill, a can or 2 of spray paint, and a whoopie cushion, we can probably minimize the damage for a few weeks!

But pardoning joe is just to keep your team running around in a tizzy. That's no way to prepare to replace him...

Riggerjack wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:34 pm

In the end, I just don't play well with others, so it's better I play here, and they play there.

Funny. For someone who doesn't play well with others you sure do have a lot of schadenfreude-riddled advice about how others should play.

It is interesting that you boldly proclaim how little you actually care about what Trump did and how unimportant it is.... but you DO care enough to type up a message mocking those who care and believe it is important.

The anthill and the magnifying glass. Projection?

Meanwhile, the missiles fly over Japan.

hard to tell which one wants to go to nuclear war more.

Riggerjack wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:31 pm

The "good" man Trump pardoned:
https://twitter.com/phoenixnewtimes/sta ... 4087334914

Eh. The Phoenix news times is only in business because of joe. Their business model for 25 years has been to decry everything he does in tabloid detail with tabloid accuracy.

My comment wasn't that the Phoenix News Times was good or anything at all about the Phoenix News Times. I haven't heard of them before and probably won't read anything from them again for a long time. I'm not sure how this goes with the conversation. If there are factual inaccuracies in the stories you should point them out, but otherwise I don't see why it matters given Phoenix News Times' limited reach.

Riggerjack wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:31 pm

What I am saying is this is going to be a long 4 years if you go into a fit of yapping every time trump tries to yank your chain. In the scale of all the horrible ways The Douchebag could damage us, wasting a pardon in month 7 on a contempt of court charge against a political windbag seems a fine use of his time.

That was hardly a "fit of yapping." The only emotional part at all is when I label his supporters "idiots." The rest of it is just analysis.

If it's a "fit of yapping" why are you bothering? It's going to be a long 4 years whether I comment or not.

Riggerjack wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:31 pm

But pardoning joe is just to keep your team running around in a tizzy. That's no way to prepare to replace him...

Yes, this is somewhat true. However, the act is still wrong. I'm not inclined to let it go. I'm not going to be indifferent to this disaster.

And, yes, the Democrats need to get their act together. Though, and I'm sure no one believes me, they are only my "team" because the other side doesn't offer anything.

And, now it's bringing out the negative side of the left...
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

Fun fact -- Antifa was founded in 1932 as a faction if the German Communist Party. They oppose not only Nazis but also western democracy and explicitly promote the use of violence to achieve their goals. They're not the good guys.

"No Trump, no wall, no USA at all."

https://twitter.com/hectormorenco/statu ... 5162427392

The press temporarily fawned over Antifa for fighting white supremacists, but the choice to bypass a simple background check in a rush for a good storyline is already coming back to bite them.

There is no "the good guys."

Riggerjack wrote: ↑ In the end, I just don't play well with others, so it's better I play here, and they play there.
Funny. For someone who doesn't play well with others you sure do have a lot of schadenfreude-riddled advice about how others should play.

It is interesting that you boldly proclaim how little you actually care about what Trump did and how unimportant it is.... but you DO care enough to type up a message mocking those who care and believe it is important.

The anthill and the magnifying glass. Projection?

Meanwhile, the missiles fly over Japan.

I think we have a communication problem, here. The post you quoted was me talking about my experiences with charities, and I believe I pointed out that when I give money, it is to the ACLU. So I really don't think we are disagreeing much here. Mocking was not my intent.

Do I care enough to post here? Yeah. Do I care what Trump does? Only as it affects the posts here, mostly. I don't keep up with the news. I've just about given up on it. Life is short, and I am busy. So when a subject comes up here, that catches my interest, I do some clicking and reading, then come back here and post what I think. I kinda assumed that was pretty common, here.

The anthill phrase was me mocking the simple, short attention spanned, twitterer in the white House. So I guess I was intending to mock, but you misread my target.

My comment wasn't that the Phoenix News Times was good or anything at all about the Phoenix News Times

Your link went to the Phoenix news times Twitter. Joe and the PNT have a 25 year feud that has been to both of their benefits, and includes lawsuits and charges of false imprisonment.

I first heard about joe back when he was the new sheriff, and making news for tent cities and pink underwear.

I can't describe the disdain I felt reading about the cruel and inhumane treatment of prisoners forced to camp in the desert, that was still not as bad as I was experiencing as a soldier, forced to camp in the desert. If he put em in MOPP gear, as I was, that would be cruel and inhumane.

So, initially, I was pro joe. But, he's just another political windbag who likes the limelight more than anything. Read his wikipedia page, it's almost nauseating how much he said/she said innuendo and accusations are in there.

After all the BS, FBI investigation, DHS investigation, blah blah, all they could get was a contempt of court charge. I'm sure there's more, but that is what they had. Now, they don't have that. And he can go back to being a forgotten ex sheriff.

While I do enjoy the idea of joe spending time with his own prisoners, I really don't care much about a presidential pardon of a political charge of a political case.

That was hardly a "fit of yapping."

Sorry, I clicked your link, then more links, got a sense of what the response was, and failed to separate my thoughts of their response from my thoughts of your response. You were not yapping, but the left in general was.

In 2020, I can't imagine the Republican party giving us a choice that doesn't involve trump or pence. I can't support that, and we just had the 2 least likable candidates face off, and 3rd parties still couldn't pull 5 percent. So voting libertarian is a sad option. So, I would love to see the DNC clean house, and come up with a candidate worth voting for. I will bring this up periodically. Not as a goad, but because I really think it is our best option at this point.

Most of the time, the party out of power organizes opposition to the party in power. That is what is going on now, and gas been since November. This is all well and good. But, it seems clear to me that trump is quite happy to keep playing this "yank their chain/send em on a snipe hunt" game, via Twitter and via press release. So every once in a while, I'm going to point out that you are wasting your energy. Because 4 years of trump should be enough for anyone.

Riggerjack wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:18 pm

Sorry, I clicked your link, then more links, got a sense of what the response was, and failed to separate my thoughts of their response from my thoughts of your response. You were not yapping, but the left in general was.

In 2020, I can't imagine the Republican party giving us a choice that doesn't involve trump or pence. I can't support that, and we just had the 2 least likable candidates face off, and 3rd parties still couldn't pull 5 percent. So voting libertarian is a sad option. So, I would love to see the DNC clean house, and come up with a candidate worth voting for. I will bring this up periodically. Not as a goad, but because I really think it is our best option at this point.

Most of the time, the party out of power organizes opposition to the party in power. That is what is going on now, and gas been since November. This is all well and good. But, it seems clear to me that trump is quite happy to keep playing this "yank their chain/send em on a snipe hunt" game, via Twitter and via press release. So every once in a while, I'm going to point out that you are wasting your energy. Because 4 years of trump should be enough for anyone.

I can't argue with any of that. I do really hope the DNC cleans house. I'm also hoping this causes the Republicans to do the same, as this hasn't exactly been kind to them either. If not, the end of the empire is closer than it needs to be.

And, now it's bringing out the negative side of the left...

I wonder if this is just a news bubble issue. I first heard of antifa from a libertarian site, linking to a Seattle antifa FB page, around the inauguration. Then I read a NPR story about red protestors in Portland and Olympia getting beat up and harassed by antifa. Then, later, they appeared again in SC. Doing what they do.

I was surprised that these guys got the support here that they did. If they are morally superior in some way to brownshirts, I don't see it. Calls for political violence and violence to silence voices in opposition are always wrong in my eyes.

So, when did you first year of these guys? And do you approve of them, or just oppose the same folks, and assume that the enemy of your enemy is your friend?

Riggerjack wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:42 pm

So, when did you first year of these guys? And do you approve of them, or just oppose the same folks, and assume that the enemy of your enemy is your friend?

Embarrassingly, I am late to hearing about these guys. I'm not even 100% sure of antifa's platform. Admittedly, I hadn't paid much attention to the brownshirts, as you put it, until Trump was elected either. Failing on my part.

No approval from me. I don't approve for calls to violence to fight violence either. At some point it could be valid, as I'm sure I could identify a few times in the 1930's the Nazis should have been challenged violently. Though, we are in no way at that point and antifa isn't exactly who I would pick to do it.

I'm very happy to read this from you chad.

The Nazi/White Supremacists and the Antifa are not equivalent. The Antifa are worse. Or, at the very least, potentially worse.

Nazism and white supremacy have a history that makes them taboo. That taboo keeps reasonable people away. The vast majority of us in the middle want nothing to do with someone who defines themselves as a Nazi or Supremacist.

The Antifa appeals to those who were reared on the Dark Knight, antihero, V for Vendetta schlock. That's how they've been taught by our prevailing culture to show their goodness. They believe they can be good by smashing things to unleash creative destruction. Those of us in the middle have been exposed to the same schlock and some may find it appealing. Things get dangerous when people in the middle look the other way. That danger reaches critical mass when those in the middle start joining.

The Antifa are worse. Or, at the very least, potentially worse.

I wouldn't say worse, but I do fear their potential to be worse.

The Brownshirts were civilian fascist shock troops. When the Nazis were a party among other parties, the Brownshirts were the ones wading into the opposition and busting heads. These were young men who had gone through losing WWI, years of extra great depression, and the very recent failure of the Weimar Republic. People hardened by decades of strife, violence, and hardship.

By comparison, today's crop of spoiled, ignorant children, making up antifa, doesn't compare. However, the cloaking presence of approving bystanders does stand up to comparison. And it is this approval of political violence that has me concerned.

Things get dangerous when people in the middle look the other way. That danger reaches critical mass when those in the middle start joining.

I am a libertarian, with caveats. I am used to being on the political fringes. Someone who endorses cutting federal spending and gay rights isn't going to be courted by either side. I'm OK with that. But since the election, I find that I have been flanked on the left and the right. That there are people calling for violence and destruction from both sides, and I have somehow become the voice calling for moderation and conciliation. WTF is wrong with the world, that mine is the voice of reason?!? Everyone needs to calm the fcuk down, define their goals, establish their strategies, and work towards achieving them with minimal bloodshed, so I can go back to being a fringe nutcase again. I'm not well suited for being the voice of reason, and I find I resent the role.

Riggerjack wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:42 pm

So, when did you first year of these guys? And do you approve of them, or just oppose the same folks, and assume that the enemy of your enemy is your friend?

About 30 years ago in the 6th grade. Also on TV shows while growing up.---And from parents and grandparents.

In the 1930s, the nationalist values and the enormous economic success of Hitler looked highly appealing to a small segment of the population who figured that what the country needed something new, like, more law and order combined with giant infrastructure projects. Of course, there's always some people who prefer that, and in that case they modeled their example on Germany which at the time was considered the most technologically advanced and culturally sophisticated country in the world.

This caused some of the youth-members of those domestic political parties with a conservative (the law and order appeal) nationalist bent to don similar uniforms and start marching in the streets with banners and drums. International communism was a competing world-view at the time (appealing to another young segment of the population who also marched around with drums and red banners), so they (the reds) organized to go fight the former in the streets with sticks and stones. After the war started, the latter later ended up either fleeing or going underground, joining the resistance very early on, or was caught and sent off to the concentration camps.

So they were the original anti-fascists.

Before the war broke out most people dismissed them (both sides) as a bunch of trouble makers (bad apples, thugs, goons, ...) not suitable for polite company. People figured that if they stayed at home and didn't take sides the trouble would go away on their own. If WWII could have been prevented by taking it more seriously, this was a mistake. If it could not have been prevented, it was the smart thing to do, insofar you valued your life.

Everybody over 35+ has grown up with parents and teachers born right after the war and talking with grand parents who experienced authoritarianism/fascism directly in their formative years. We talked about this stuff often and it was based on personal/family experience. If I had a dime for every time my father started a sentence with "During the war...", I could have retired at age 15 In several European countries (Spain, Yugoslavia, Romania) fascist dictatorships carried on into the 1970s and 1990s, so it wasn't just a theoretical exercise.

It's my impression that WWII is taught quite differently in the US, so different lessons have been learned. Recall that whole Sean Spicer "holocaust center" snafu. I've visited no less than three different concentration camps during my school years ... so educational policy when I grew up put an enormous emphasis on that.

I was born 30 years after WWII ended. Judging by the pictures and videos, the kids out on the street today are as far removed historically from the Weimar Republic as I was from the US Civil War when we were growing up. Think about it. What could I possibly learn from the US Civil War?(*) Most of them seem to have no clue about the historical context of what they're doing. And neither do the majority of people observing them from the perceived safety of their homes anymore.

I'm taking theories like the Fourth Turning a lot more seriously these days because it appears that it's been so long ago that a majority of people has now forgotten those lessons of history or never learned them in the first place and therefore remain convinced those lessons don't apply to them. The "never forget"-immunization has worn off.

(*) Go read some of Lincoln's speeches from the 1850s to see what ...

I find it amusing (in a bad way) that people worry about nazies or commies according to their tribalism. What they should worry about is whichever crowd is the more organized and which has systematic political and ideological backing from thought leaders if any... because that's where an effective threat to democratic values will come from. After all, without backing lending direction, it's just a bunch of random trouble-makers.

jacob wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:29 pm

What they should worry about is whichever crowd is the more organized and which has systematic political and ideological backing from thought leaders if any... because that's where an effective threat to democratic values will come from. After all, without backing lending direction, it's just a bunch of random trouble-makers.

that's why brute is not worried at all about White Supremacists or Nazis, whereas he's very worried about The Left (tm) suppressing free speech.

Jean wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:39 pm

I'm very happy to read this from you chad.

You thought I was an extremist?