Early Retirement Extreme Forums

I am different in a lot of ways from other people, but I suspect they would have a list of ways that they are different from a lot others, even though I perceive them as "normal" or "mainstream." I don't see myself as normal or mainstream...but what is "normal," really? I'm guessing just about anyone could put together a list of ways they are "different." And really, aren't we all special snowflakes anyway??

That said, I am different from most of the people i associate with in these ways (at least):
--Single, never married
--No kids
--Despite making an upper middle class salary, I live in a lower-middle to lower class neighborhood/house (this is actually a big one--I think I'm judged by others for this)
--Financially way better off than most, could quit my job pretty much at any time. (I have been having a lot of conversations at work with people who are close to traditional retirement age who don't have sufficient money put aside. It's a big worry for them).
--I don't have cable.
--I have been really, really, really lucky in my life. I do believe to an extent people make their own luck, but I can't ignore the fact that I have been VERY lucky in ways that I've had absolutely no control over. Things like where I lived, friends I've had who've encouraged me, where I ended up going to college, the fact that I've just never had anything really bad happen to me. A lot of people aren't so lucky.
--I have a pretty high IQ and remember almost everything I read (thought not always WHERE I read it...). This has helped me a lot in life... but I include that in the "luck" category.

Probably a million other things as well. But like I said, we're all different from one another in many ways.

EdithKeeler wrote: --Despite making an upper middle class salary, I live in a lower-middle to lower class neighborhood/house (this is actually a big one--I think I'm judged by others for this.

Us too. This is probably our biggest point of judgment by our peers. People assume all kinds of crazy things about our life, our marriage and our finances because we live in a little nondescript condo... because we're surrounded by million dollar homes and million dollar problems and we don't aspire to either. That seems to really freak our acquaintances out. It's easier for them to assume we've "fallen on hard times" than accept that we're happy living frugally at midlife. The horror! I mean, we all know frugality is expected for college students and the elderly. But between those two life points it signals one of five things to most thirty-, forty- and fifty-somethings, in this order:

1. Failure
2. Inability
3. Foreigner
4. Bohemianism, or
5. Missionary

Because we live in a low-key way among some very rich people, as much as half our idle conversation with people our own age is them trying - within the bounds of Midwestern politeness - to figure out which of these four boxes to put us in (3 they rule out immediately). That there's anything at all outside these boxes doesn't occur to anybody.

We don't make close friends. I'm in a good relationship with many people, but when they start inviting you to weddings and all that crap and start sharing details of their personal life, that's when it becomes weird. My husband is my only close friend.

GandK wrote:

EdithKeeler wrote: --Despite making an upper middle class salary, I live in a lower-middle to lower class neighborhood/house (this is actually a big one--I think I'm judged by others for this.

Us too. This is probably our biggest point of judgment by our peers.

This one is in my future (ironically it's returning to the neighborhood where I grew up). I've imagined what people will think seeing me show back up a decade before expected retirement age and living in a little bitty house in a marginal neighborhood. I'm sure the assumption will be, 'He's fallen on hard times." Probably with whispers that I should get off my butt and get a job, act like a grownup, and get rid of the stupid cabin. I'll be the admonition of an entire generation in my family tree: "Get your homework done! You don't want to end up like Great Uncle iDave, do you?!" But for now I'm living in a neighborhood that's roughly on par with my means.

EdithKeeler wrote: --Despite making an upper middle class salary, I live in a lower-middle to lower class neighborhood/house (this is actually a big one--I think I'm judged by others for this)

I have kinda the opposite problem...we live in the cheapest house in a pretty well-to-do neighborhood but display few signs that we are doing well financially. 3 of our 4 neighbors are pretty open about keeping up with each other, primping lawns, nice vehicles, etc... The 4th has indirectly complained about our 'unkept' homestead (long grass in the orchard, lots of gardens, chickens, etc... ). They retired from the company I work for and anytime we talk to them they always ask if my wife is working yet. When we say nope, they say something to the affect of 'you're able to do well on one salary then?' As if it's any of their business. Last time it happened my wife got a bit blunt ( I wasn't there ) and told them we live a different, happier life than everyone else and don't need more money. It seems they think it's weird that we have such a passion for gardening. Why would anyone be passionate about anything but work?

Wouldn't it be lovely to create an ERE neighbourhood where we would have to keep up with the Jones on the frugality?

CECTPA wrote:Wouldn't it be lovely to create an ERE neighbourhood where we would have to keep up with the Jones on the frugality?

isn't that what this place is?

ffj wrote:If you want to avoid the stares and judgements/comments, then living in a rural, not too wealthy place is the way to go.

Strangely it doesn't bother me in the slightest. The one that indirectly complained is an idiot and I take some small amusement in his ignorance of our activities, not to mention that we will retire from the same company, only 30 years apart.

The guy also gives the impression of being a sexist, so we just generally avoid him and his wife. It's easy to do, their house is about 200 feet away. Last time DW talked to him, she mentioned she doesn't really give much attention to what goes on in the world, rather she enjoys pursuing her own passions. All he could say was 'Is that because you're a woman?"

We were both pretty stunned. So I am happy to annoy him with my long grass and chickens.

I was thinking about this topic and decided on one thing about me that stands out as being different.

I have a really hard time accepting people's assumptions about my life and/or the life they think I'm living. Having a career is a prime example, but you could apply it to any 'popular choice' (drinking milk at dinner, for example). A lot of the time I really want to let people know of how I am different from what they assume about me, but my better self takes charge and I don't because I know it's "better for all involved".

One specific example of something that really bugs me. I often have the ability to work from home when I want. If DW calls her mom via skype and I show up in camera view during what qualifies as a 'work day' the reaction is something like "oh shouldn't he be at work?"....or "oh he is allowed to be home today"...AAARGH...

Other examples include when the supervisor starts talking of 'career ambitions' and/or 'development plans'. My default reaction is "why should I have a development plan?". Of course I just roll with the punches.

All of these assumptions are difficult for me to deal with and that makes me different....I think. Judgements don't bother me, but assumptions....ugh..

BRUTE wrote:

CECTPA wrote:Wouldn't it be lovely to create an ERE neighbourhood where we would have to keep up with the Jones on the frugality?

isn't that what this place is?

I'm talking an actual, geographical location. I'd move there

Eh, I think the dumpster pickings will be better if we keep ourselves spread out a bit geographically.

Honestly, too many ways to count. I have shifted from defining myself by differences and "nots" to what I focus on (e.g. meaningful connection with key people, healthful living, mental health, long-term goals, financial freedom, etc.).

I recently stumbled over a quiz translating "life experience" into D&D stats. I believe the standard is to roll 3D6 which gives a Gaussian/bell curve approximation with a 10.5 average and a range from 3 to 18. Since non-leveraged human ability is very much distributed on a bell curve this is useful in terms of describing differences. I cross correlated the results with a lot of other GM talk and it seems that a rather tremendous effort has gone into describing D&D in human terms so that, perhaps, people may play their characters better. Here's the quiz http://www.kevinhaw.com/add_quiz.php ... but like with MBTI, you can also work your way backwards from the descriptions http://dmingwithcharisma.com/2011/10/dd ... -language/ ... So validate and verify. In any case, the results kinda seemed legit to me. Translation equation: 1+24(QUIZ-3)/15=LIST

Here are my QUIZ numbers as far as I play my own character in real life:
STR: 12
INT: 17
WIS: 16
DEX: 12
CON: 14
CHA: 7

In terms of differences, my character is almost always the smartest guy in the room but lacks the charisma to have any meaningful impact on most people. Fortunately, he/I also has the wisdom/experience realize this and therefore chooses to shut up in most cases usually acting quite reserved with most people. Athleticism is above average but not note-worthy. Constitution is somewhat above average usually resulting in remarks like "Seriously, you guys need to eat again. Are you diabetic or something?!" (also see low charisma score)

Humans seem to enjoy practising their strengths to a proportional degree. IOW, individual activities seem to be quite defined by how inherently good the individual is at doing them. With the low cha-score, there's generally no enjoyment of typical "charisma"-activities such as eating out, travelling, recreational shopping, celebrities, and rooting for sports teams and my character shows practically zero interest in any of them. Conversely, the combination of int+wis means I quickly get known as "THAT guy" (either famous or notorious within the circle depending on who you ask) no matter where I get involved (work, library, internet, sailing, ...). However because of the low cha score, typical work/productive efforts have focused more on lone pursuits like writing and intellectual research/invention rather than social pursuits like climbing corporate or academic ladders. The somewhat higher con level is mostly taken for granted---there a few experiments such as cold showers, not using A/C, warrior diet, which apparently are somewhat harder for other characters to just go and do. The above levels of str+dex has lead to some interest in sports which is one of the only activities where I/this character feels normal/not different from others---also because sports doesn't depend on the rare int+wis+cha combination (aka cassandra burger).

In any case, I can derive a host of explanations for my personal life/background/typicall behaviour from this. This is quite remarkable given the simplicity of the stats. I think they explain me pretty well. Statistically, the likelihood an int+cha+wis combination this extreme (or more so) is 1 to 6912. D&D nerdiness aside, I have NEVER met anyone like me or more extreme/different than me as far as those three stats are concerned. Conversely, as far as str+dex goes, in random groups, I'm usually the "strong" guy (as in, "see if jacob can do it") whereas in sports-groups, I get picked for the team somewhere around the middle, i.e. "worst guy on the best team".

As for specific list entries of things I do differently:
* I almost never buy anything new except for socks, underwear, and tools that are used up (drill bits, sandpaper, files, ...)
* The only pre-processed food I eat on a regular basis is ketchup.
* As far as I know, there's only one other house on this entire block that has a vegetable garden.
* I only have a vague idea of which day in the week it is.

STR: 6
INT: 15
WIS: 15
DEX: 7
CON: 5
CHA: 17

Results also legit here. That's kinda scary.

Takeaways, apart from "exercise more"?

The most noticeable difference with my peers is my parenting style. It's even a source of conflict within our extended family. I've mentioned some examples of my free-range parenting style in other threads. The difference is even more pronounced now that our kids are college-aged. I want them to go to a school they love and pursue what they want as long as it's a viable plan. My peers in Stepford and the kids' guidance counselors are all pushing for a ranked school regardless of the program or costs. We've been made to feel like we're either setting our kids up for failure or too stupid to realize that they should go to the 'best' school possible (I still get grief over DD turning down UChicago). Time will tell I guess, but they seem happy with their choices, they're working hard, and they'll have some money left over after college costs to help them get established. That makes me more comfortable with our decision. It still hurts to be criticized for 'short-changing' our kids and not giving them 'all the opportunities' we should have since we had the money to give them almost anything. Personally, I think we've given them something better by teaching them life's not all about money or having everything be 'perfect', but it's a hard thing to prove to people.

----------

STR: 9
INT: 17
WIS: 14
DEX: 13
CON: 10
CHA: 6

The charisma description says "Terribly reticent, uninteresting, or rude", and I'm pretty sure one of my answers should go the other way which would lower my score to a 5 which says "Has trouble thinking of others as people".

S: 13
I: 17
W: 16
D: 13
CON: 15
CHA: 11

I guessed on the military press. It's an exercise I do, as I think it's useful, but I do it on a Soloflex and never tried to see how much I can lift 1 time.
Some of the questions from the Constitution portion should deduct from the Wisdom portion, like amount of alcohol you can consume, etc.

Can anybody do one-armed pull ups? I never heard of it until now.

jacob wrote:Statistically, the likelihood an int+cha+wis combination this extreme (or more so) is 1 to 6912. D&D nerdiness aside, I have NEVER met anyone like me or more extreme/different than me as far as those three stats are concerned.

Hrrrmm.....

My results.

S: 11
I: 14
W: 17
D: 12
CON: 14
CHA: 4


I'm not sure I got anything from this. The descriptions seemed pretty average, although the Charisma definition is accurate. Maybe I'm just a very rude, average person...

@GandK - Read this: http://personalitygrowth.com/each-myers ... pocalypse/ ... I'd say join some kind of full contact sport. In terms of the zombie apocalypse, you're about as strong and coordinated (zombie burger) as I am charming and polite (i.e. best kept away from managers, customers, romantic interests, and any other people who can't handle the truth)

Also, if you're ever invited to go hiking by someone who doesn't/didn't bring a bear spray or a Mossberg 500 ... well, maybe there's a deeper reason?

@JP - Read this: http://personalitygrowth.com/each-myers ... pocalypse/ ... Ha! I resemble the above cha-remarks +/-1. In one historical instance, the popular crowd temporarily left me with another person just to get rid of her because unintentional as it is for me I've been known to make [normal] people feel uncomfortable/uninvited just from hanging around in my company---I just sit there and say nothing until they go away. In any case, just as a matter of general principle, I don't consider humans to be people (insofar as engaging them in conversation) unless they show above paragraph-level insight. Uhm.. yeah .. I should probably make another attempt at being more inclusive again. I redouble my efforts every 10 years or so but I always get disappointed every time I reiterate. Reminds me of the aesthetics ROI of the other thread combined with this: http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

@enigmaT120 - Yeah I can do one-armed pull-ups. Or at least I used to---been a few years since I had good access to a pull up station, so I'm not sure I can do them now. However, if you can do 10 regular ones, one-armed isn't that hard. Start building up by holding your pulling arm by the wrist with the other hand. Eventually let go.

@cmonkey - Maybe. Did you verify by descriptions. DW just took the test and as usual, she was somewhat off. FWIW, I knew I was/am bad when it comes to random people (present company excluded---I find it very easy to share interests/goals/ways of thinking with you guys) but I didn't think I was that bad. Maybe it's the universe's way of maintaining balance.

@jacob - Note to self. Look up charm-school on Coursera or Open MIT again

@jacob, I looked at the one liner descriptions if that is what you are referring to.

My score is mostly explained by a purposeful dislike of social engagements and confusion by social customs more than anything. There is also an element of awkwardness, exhaustion and irritability, mostly around people I don't know.

Maybe my idea of 'friend' is different than what other people think as well....frequency of contact, depth of conversation, etc. The folks I consider friends regularly come and go (months with no contact) and we don't really lose the level we were at before.

STR:11
INT:17
WIS:14
DEX:12
CON:12
CHR:11

Awesome idea, next campaign I'll try to to distribute my scores in either this way or in the opposite way (but what exactly is the opposite of a certain DnD character?). Scores seem about right. I've gotten a bit stronger due to rock climbing/bouldering lately, but not that much. My WIS was lower than I expected, but maybe that is exactly what low(er) wisdom implies. I wonder how if/how one can improve on WIS/DEX?