Early Retirement Extreme Forums

for most of his life, brute had felt that something was holding him back, making him conform, and preventing him from being brute himself. first school, later college, then work. so once brute had ~3 years of FU money, he quit, and started traveling the world. brute did abso-fucking-lutely nothing for almost 2 years. in the beginning it was great fun, and he spent lots of time with (new) friends, learned languages, lost weight, worked out, blablablablabla.

but after about 1 year of no external constraints, brute realized that being completely free didn't allow him to be "himself". there was no "himself". there was just nothing there. "brute" only existed in the external context. there was no "real brute" hiding somewhere under the external forces. being completely without any external framework was not liberating, it was oppressive, and painfully boring. even the things brute used to long for, or longed to have time for, he wouldn't do any more.

maybe it is the paradox of liberty: the only way to be free of something is not to have it, or not to care about it. therefore absolute freedom is having nothing and not caring about anything.

Hence the feeling that life is some kind of punishment? That is one thing I see in your writings. The irony that freedom is not real and confinement by external constraints is a necessity to be happy? Sartre talked about this as I recall.

"I'd like a coffee without cream." - "I'm sorry, Mr. Sartre, we're out of cream. Would you like one without milk?"

punishment doesn't feel like the right word. but life does not feel inherently positive to brute, either. it just sits there.

@brute do you think your perspective would be more positive if you had a partner you liked spending time with? For me having a partner in crime makes it a really wonderful adventure.

BRUTE wrote:maybe it is the paradox of liberty: the only way to be free of something is not to have it, or not to care about it. therefore absolute freedom is having nothing and not caring about anything.

Exactly, having a little bit of choice is far better than no choice at all, but a lot of choice is crippling and anxiety inducing. We need boxes more than we realise. The ERE box is one of the better ones. Self reliance keeps you pretty busy and out of mischief.

BRUTE wrote:... brute did abso-fucking-lutely nothing for almost 2 years. in the beginning it was great fun, and he spent lots of time with (new) friends, learned languages, lost weight, worked out, blablablablabla.

but after about 1 year of no external constraints, brute realized that being completely free didn't allow him to be "himself". there was no "himself"...

Positive Psychology has boiled people's happiness down to three major components: The Sensory, the Engaged, and the Meaningful life.
Sensory: Eating, sex, hiking, good company, concerts, exhibitions etc. These things you get better at by training your ability to appreciate them ie Mindfulness. The primary pitfall of this is Hedonic Adaptation, naturally.
Engaged: Flow, put shortly. Something that really engages you and challenges you at the same time. Something you get good at by repeated practice and by seeking out challenges that are intellectually challenging to you and also fit within your framework of interests.
The Meaningful: Doing something for others while experiencing and appreciating the effect it has. Help someone move ahead in life, do something that reaches beyond you and help your community, for any given of definition of community.

You can probably think of a prototype human who engages solely in one of these disciplines. Then try to imagine what kind of person does all of it at the same time.

Have you made these three primary modes a part of your web of goals?

Did you regularly appreciate your non-need to go to work during your time off work, or did you immediately take the free time for granted and goofed off with no sense of appreciation for the accomplishment?

Did wrote:@brute do you think your perspective would be more positive if you had a partner you liked spending time with?

brute wouldn't know. so far, most relationships seem more taxing than beneficial to brute.

...

Ooooh.... two great responses from classical_Liberal and FBeyer. The melding of hormesis with positive psychology. Nice.

FBeyer wrote:You can probably think of a prototype human who engages solely in one of these disciplines. Then try to imagine what kind of person does all of it at the same time.

it's not that brute is unable to feel biological/momentary happiness. in fact, day to day, brute is usually very happy, and has been. he's been taking care of himself pretty well during the last few years, lots of working out, eating healthy, stress free, friendships.

but like brute mentioned in another thread, all these things are clearly distractions from the FACT that everything is meaningless. brute has merely fallen through the cracks of the hamster wheel, only to discover that there's no meaning to be found either.

classical_Liberal wrote:.. hormesis ..

probably right. brute has always despised humans that are just running after a carrot dangles before them, but maybe that's just what they're wired to do. recognizing this does not invalidate its mechanism.

The good thing about realizing that there is no meaning out there, is that you get to create your own meaning from within.

BRUTE wrote:... all these things are clearly distractions from the FACT that everything is meaningless...

Yes, in the grand scheme of geological time scales, entropy of the universe, footprint you will leave on the history of mankind etc.

So you are now faced with a binary choice:
1) Be happy while doing meaningless tasks.
2) Be unhappy while doing meaningless tasks.

brute is not sure it's a choice

BRUTE wrote:brute is not sure it's a choice

Until you have certainty, hedge your bets...
Your suffering is also meaningless, might as well not suffer.

point being, if it's not a choice, how would brute decide to do it?

Brute can make it a choice.

cmonkey was browsing through books he thought he'd enjoy and this one reminded him of brute.

BRUTE wrote:

FBeyer wrote:You can probably think of a prototype human who engages solely in one of these disciplines. Then try to imagine what kind of person does all of it at the same time.

it's not that brute is unable to feel biological/momentary happiness. in fact, day to day, brute is usually very happy, and has been. he's been taking care of himself pretty well during the last few years, lots of working out, eating healthy, stress free, friendships.

but like brute mentioned in another thread, all these things are clearly distractions from the FACT that everything is meaningless. brute has merely fallen through the cracks of the hamster wheel, only to discover that there's no meaning to be found either.

I just drop by to tell you that i like your journal and your various interventions on the board.
I can relate in that i am also usually quite happy and i take care of myself, have learned to significantly decrease my stress level and keep working out. "good boy" The flip side is that i also often feel like "i am simply not there". This strange feeling that i lack a serious goal a kind of epiphany to wake up and act.

Consider this. How is your lifestyle different from that of a lady-who-lunches or a kept sugar-baby? Maybe the fact that past-you is keeping current-you doesn't make enough of a difference.