MMM made the Washington Post today

jennypenny · Post by **jennypenny** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:41 am

I can't believe I'm going to defend BH a little. I have issues with the forum and its pervasive chauvinism. And yet here I go...
As I said, when you meet with them off of the forum they admit they are not as dogmatic about their investments, or their lifestyles. (really, if they all followed a 1/3 US, 1/3 int'l, 1/3 bonds they wouldn't need meets or conferences--what would they talk about?) The feeling I get is that they feel for the novice investor (especially the typical BH noob who's got a fair amount of money to invest), the safest advice to give is the standard BH advice--LBYM, max tax-deferred options, use the standard three- or four-pronged approach to index investing, and try and retire in your late 50s with no mortgage. Honestly, most people can't even manage that so for most people it's good advice.
It's the same with ERE. You don't start by telling them to give up the cell phone. You start with the standard advice--cut the big three and then put as much money away as possible. It can't hurt anything and most people won't get past that advice anyway.
@jacob--I remember that thread about you. Wasn't it right when you went back to work? IIRC it was pretty vicious, even attacking DW, so I understand why you're not a fan

secretwealth · Post by **secretwealth** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:52 am

Bogleheads are chauvinistic? I didn't know that, but somehow I'm not surprised. There's a bizarre arrogance to the idea that "I can't beat the market so no one else can."

secretwealth · Post by **secretwealth** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:55 am

"The one I'm closest with is a fierce daytrader."
Just saw this. There's a delicious game of misinformation in investing that I love observing. So many hedge fund analysts and investment gurus will spread misinformation to mislead the herd to their personal gain. It's funny to see that attitude trickle down to your everyday day trader.

RealPerson · Post by **RealPerson** » Fri May 03, 2013 4:02 am

"There's a bizarre arrogance to the idea that "I can't beat the market so no one else can."
I think the word missing here is consistently. Bogle does not dispute that a manager or investor can sometimes beat the market. His contention is that managers are unable to consistently beat the market, because they have to be correct when to buy and when to sell, over and over. I think that is generally true for large mutual fund managers. Individual investors can do much better, provided they learn how to properly invest.

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Sun May 05, 2013 12:32 am

@Realperson "Individual investors can do much better, provided they learn how to properly invest."
But what is "to properly invest"?
I used to like the BH forum. Lots of nice people and interesting discussions there. But in the end I grew tired of how some seemed more interested in shutting up blasphemers than in figuring out what works best.
Very nice article.

secretwealth · Post by **secretwealth** » Sun May 05, 2013 2:11 am

"Bogle does not dispute that a manager or investor can sometimes beat the market. His contention is that managers are unable to consistently beat the market, because they have to be correct when to buy and when to sell, over and over."
Many money managers have consistently beat the market with less underperforming years vs. over-performing years. Warren Buffett is the obvious example, but the hedge fund industry provides many other less well-known examples.