When Technology Overwhelms

[jacob]

Plato's cave Ever experiment with killing the ads and standardizing to one OS? Maybe there's another level available to you.

I've been using ghostery and ublock origin for a long time, so my desktop internet experience is largely ad free.

Add: It's likely important to notice that I don't use a smartphone as my primary device and that I don't have any social media installed on my smartphone.

My different systems exist mainly because hardware increasingly seems to last forever both in terms of not breaking but also in terms of still being operable. The osx system is from 2009. The linux systems are from 2015 and 2008ish. The win system is of an indeterminate age, but around 2016. The chromebook is from 2020something. These days operating systems behave practically the same from a user perspective so it only feels like driving slightly different cars. As it is, I use different systems for different things. I find that easier than trying to make one system do everything. Only downside is owning more hardware.

[delay]

This is good advice although I'm doubtful about open source. If you aren't paying directly for your tools then you are paying in some other way.

I'd agree that, say, using Spotify free tier you pay for it in a different way. But is that also true for open source? Say that I use gnucash as budgeting software, or vim as text editor. How am I paying for that?

For example, I pay for YouTube premium, which disables ads inserted by Google - but many videos nowadays just contain ads inside them, which are not disabled by the premium service (at best, you have to buy separate subscribtion from the content creator to disable them).

Yeah indeed! And it's the same at Twitch. You pay for a subscription and you are still bombarded with ads. I wonder how anyone can watch YouTube without an ad blocker.

Between Brave broswer and AdBlocker plugin, nothing makes it's way to my eyeballs. Even Youtube videos.

That's interesting, I'm installing Brave again (currently using Opera.) Which ad block plugin are you using? I default to adblockplus or ublock origin.

[theanimal]

That's interesting, I'm installing Brave again (currently using Opera.) Which ad block plugin are you using? I default to adblockplus or ublock origin.

Just AdBlock and Ghostery.

[reepicheep]

It's worth reading this blog post on enshittification here.

I read this entire post yesterday as well as some of the comments. It really captures my experience of using the internet and my personal devices entirely. I feel like I make strong efforts to ensure that notifications are disabled on most services I use, that location is not turned on, that permissions are minimally enabled. But WHY do I have to click “No, don’t share my location” when I need to sign something via Docusign?

And so on. I have been monitoring these minor intrusions with more attention today and while I am fairly adept at dodging them — so much so that I often don’t even notice — they are truly incessant.

How do I turn this shit off and keep it from reappearing? Is there even a way?

[ducknald_don]

Safari lets you deny requests for location sharing by default and enable it for any services you want. I don't know about the open source browsers like Chrome.

[macg]

Some good advice here, and choices about technology can help... For me though, it was just a lifestyle choice that I consciously decided to make.

I've been in IT for decades now, and some years back I just decided I wasn't going to let technology rule me anymore. Sure, for work I have to use a computer ... But even on that I've shut off all notifications, and check emails and Teams when I want to.

Same for my phone. I have it set so that the notification icon will show in my top notifications bar only for texts and phone calls - but no sounds and no screen lighting or flashes. No other app has notifications turned on at all. My phone has been set to silent for years. If I don't look at it, I don't know if anyone called. Which is fine, actually great - I grew up in the age before cell phones, and I think this constant connection everyone has now isn't good.

I technically have a home computer that I bought 12ish years ago, as a junk Windows computer so I could learn Powershell - after which I converted it to Ubuntu. In writing this I realize that I haven't powered it on in 2024. I did buy a tablet in 2023 (to replace one I had for 12 years), but primarily have used it when I travel, to watch shows or movies.

All this is to show my conscious choice - I decided that I wasn't going to react to or be driven by technology and this age of constant reactions to notifications. Instead, I use technology to benefit me, on my timetable.

For me, it's given me a sense of calm. I am a weirdo to friends and family, but that's likely true in one way or another for everyone who frequents this site lol.

Best of luck!

[ducknald_don]

It’s interesting that people who work with technology seem most likely to limit it in their personal lives.

[dustBowl]

Sometimes, it feels like the world is deliberately designed to distract us.

That's because it is.

For me, the key was understanding the point made by the article AE shared - the modern technology ecosystem has mostly devolved into a giant addiction machine designed to extract your attention at (potentially) great cost to your personal sovereignty and well-being. Once you get that, you can make an informed choice about how to respond.

I went full luddite and purged almost everything. Social media, news, TV. went out the window years ago. I'll search for specific how-to videos on YouTube but I have extensions installed that blank out the homepage and block recommendations. In terms of sites, I only visit ERE and a few other niche forums. My phone gets used to facilitate in-person interactions with people I know personally, or video calls if necessary.

For someone else reading, the response might be different - the goal isn't to prescribe a specific course of action, but to understand the ecosystem we exist inside, in which the incentives of the big actors are misaligned with those of the users. That understanding then allows for the design of a values-based lifestyle.

Additional recommended resources: The War on Sensemaking by Daniel S, The Anxious Generation by Haidt, all of Tristan Harris's talks

[loutfard]

Our caveman brains are lost in the modern enshittified world. Once more, a recommendation of "The distracted mind", by Adam Gazzaley. Spoiler alert: adblock might help, but won't fix it.

[jacob]

Another issue is that we are likely experiencing very very different versions of the internet et al. This becomes blatantly apparent to me whenever I have to use someone else's computer. I spent xmas visiting family and had to deal with their systems. OMG! An absolute exercise in frustration that was borderline ridiculous. It was the ERE equivalent of entering the WL1 of the online world: Full of ads and dragging response times.

I managed to fix/improve/upgrade/install a bunch of tools/changes. I'm not sure I managed to fix/improve/upgrade/install the "user" though. As such, the fix is but temporary.

There's a tendency to blame the environment or nefarious forces w/o realizing just how much one's experience/life can be improved by understanding how the world actually works and "improving as a user". It is possible to make the world work for you.

I suppose it's not fair that one has to outsmart the environment turn a disadvantage into an advantage, but it's possible and it is what it is.

[macg]

+1

[dustBowl]

There's a tendency to blame the environment or nefarious forces w/o realizing just how much one's experience/life can be improved by understanding how the world actually works and "improving as a user". It is possible to make the world work for you.

A nice concise summary of the ERE mindset.

[Jean]

We get free internet because adds work on most people, in the same way that we get 4% return rate on our investment.
It's a bit sad that the most accessible way to avoid being a prey is to become a parasite ourselves.

The only thing I waste time on is youtube.
I know that i get usefull informations out of it, but a lot of it is also just distraction.
I have required distraction to focus since before pernanet was a thing. I worked for my exams in a loud bar.
I kinda miss boredom.
I also miss the challenge there was in travelling before you could look up everythig online. It turned the world into a ubisoft game.

[bos]

I've been using a Raspberry Pi as a DNS blocker at home for over two years. It works like Adblock in your browser but covers the whole network. For example, phones and my Android projector don't show ads. I also blocked porn and some websites I find useless. It was funny when a family member visited and subtly mentioned he couldn't access certain websites. We laughed about it, and I told him visiting my place is like a detox for his brain!

I'd agree that, say, using Spotify free tier you pay for it in a different way. But is that also true for open source? Say that I use gnucash as budgeting software, or vim as text editor. How am I paying for that?

In some ways, you pay for open-source software with time, because its complexity, which continues to be a challenge. It’s steep to learn, and it kinda stays steep. For instance, if I didn’t use Vim or Neovim daily, I’d probably struggle to pick it up again in 10 years. When I worked in the 3D industry, Blender was widely praised for being open-source. I really tried to like it, even visiting their office in Amsterdam, but the interface was horrible, which is a common issue with open-source projects that need a serious UI. Compare that to Adobe, which dominates 99% of the creative tools market, largely thanks to its polished and user-friendly design. Blender however is making a comeback, but it required a 10 million donation from Apple who did not want to depend on other vendors.

[Quadalupe]

In some ways, you pay for open-source software with time, because its complexity, which continues to be a challenge. It’s steep to learn, and it kinda stays steep.

This is definitely true, 'how to quit vim' is an often searched phrase for a reason! For a lot of people (at home), who mainly use the browser, write a letter or send an email, I think open source alternatives are perfectly fine though.

I've also read the enshittication post and it filled me with horror. Their experience of booting up an old laptop and it taking 30 minutes for it to be usable brought back memories of shitty acer laptops of family members.

[ducknald_don]

The only thing I waste time on is youtube.

If you turn your watch history off it cuts down on the distractions. The front page no longer shows anything other than a pleading message asking you to turn it back on again.

[Quadalupe]

If you turn your watch history off it cuts down on the distractions. The front page no longer shows anything other than a pleading message asking you to turn it back on again.

I can also hearthily recommend the Unhook extension (firefox, chrome), it can basically turn off everything you don't want. For example, I configured it so that videos in a playlist show up on the right, but I don't get any recommendations or autoplay.

[loutfard]

In some ways, you pay for open-source software with time, because its complexity, which continues to be a challenge. It’s steep to learn, and it kinda stays steep.

:s/open\-source//

[Scott 2]

My different systems exist mainly because hardware increasingly seems to last forever both in terms of not breaking but also in terms of still being operable.

I'm working through this currently. Running devices include Android, lineage OS, Ubuntu, Windows 10, and chrome OS.


I'm finding a couple of motivations to consolidate:


1. Storage. Not only the devices, but their cables and peripherals I _might_ need. That VGA to DVI adapter. The VGA cable. 3.5mm audio cables. Spoiler - I didn't. Half of it was already obsolete, before purging any devices.

I've found myself sitting on e-waste, convinced I'm diverting the stream. But I made my choice at time of purchase. So I'm really storing a recurring search problem. If I need this stuff again, I can pull better versions from the waste stream.


2. Process debt. Maybe it's my tech background, but I believe sitting on the latest stable version is the lowest cumulative effort. We can absorb the small changes as tiny insults, instead of carrying a large backlog

The counter argument being - if one wants to stay current on half a dozen OS flavors, it's prudent to keep running them. Even now, I'm tempted to see what I can repurpose.

IE:

Should that old phone running Lineage get activated as a biking phone? Or what about a bedtime audiobook player without Internet access???

Should the Windows 10 box get force upgraded to Windows 11? And then I can dual boot it with Arch Linux to learn what that's all about. I can have a second desktop available upstairs, in case my wife and I are competing for it.

And I could use the Chromebook to practice coding on the couch. Chrome OS has a Linux mode. It's performant enough when paired with a cloud build environment! With the USB video out, it's a tolerable desktop...


Paring down to an Ubuntu desktop and an Android phone is clearly the option that most respects my time, long term. My path there is likely winding, because of these what ifs though.

At the very least - I'm going to stop storing unused devices and peripherals. If everything is connected, I don't need those other cables.

The were 5 keyboards in my house. 6 if you count the laptop.

[jacob]

I've found myself sitting on e-waste, convinced I'm diverting the stream. But I made my choice at time of purchase. So I'm really storing a recurring search problem. If I need this stuff again, I can pull better versions from the waste stream.

Me too and not only my own stream but other people's streams as well. The tragically ironic thing is how it's only waste in the sense of struggling with contemporary internet bloat. Everything still works just fine when dealing within the context of +5years of its original date. I did a test trying to download the homepage of different banks. Most major banks took 10-20 seconds, but my local credit union spent 2+ minutes downloading a bunch of ridiculous animations showing random actors pretending to enjoy their newfound access to car loans and other products. ARGH!!

In that regard, the ERE forum is still functional on old hardware and I'd like it to continue that way. Also see the low-tech magazine site who makes a virtue of that and walks the talk. @candide started a thread promoting an alternative version of the internet based on the old-time gopher protocol. I wonder if this remains/could be a thing if promoted more. Especially for the digital minimalists, the inability to access sites where form>>function might be seen as a feature rather than a bug.

In terms of avoiding e-waste, I'm currently leaning towards DIY PC-builds. However, I'm also very aware that this might just be due to my current interests/priorities, because PC-building is just about the least mobile solution imaginable. MY PC solutions are literally wrapped around the various pieces of furniture (wires) in the room.

PS: I only have 1 keyboard and 1 mouse OTOH, I have too many laptops and also an extra 15" screen. Happy to give some of that away to anyone in the US for the cost of shipping or free if swapping for something interesting.