Biscuits and Gravy wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 8:12 am
Long way of saying, drop the rope. That doesn’t have to mean divorce. It just means giving yourself the freedom to accept that you are not responsible for him and his choices and that it’s okay for you to live the life that you want to live.
I agree that everyone deserves “to be with someone who wants to be with you and who puts effort into themself and the relationship.” The path forward is simple but not easy.
Thank you for sharing your dad’s early retirement idleness trip. It sounds frustrating to watch him slowly self-destruct over 20 years and need to lose a foot to consider change. It was always his choice and wasn’t about anyone else.
Good for your mom leaving when she did. It’s probably easier for you and your sisters to set boundaries with the BS than it would be for her. My mom was a 50s-era wife when women were told they were responsible for their husbands and kids (and men were told their job was to make a living, be king of the castle, and all sorts of abusive behaviors were okay). That system generates guilt to keep these women in line. My mom still unconsciously operates with that paradigm.
SouthernAlchemy wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 8:32 am
I am not suggesting that divorce is the answer here, but that marriage/partnership requires accommodation on the part of both people and that ultimately can lead to limiting oneself in some way(s). It is worth considering what limits the marriage creates and if the benefits of the marriage are worth the cost.
How amazing to watch your mom grieve your father’s death, grow into true herself, and enjoy life! It is a hopeful story.
Win-win collaboration is a healthier dynamic. Compromising is both sides giving up and gaining something. There can also be that competing-accommodation dynamic where only one person is winning while the other loses. Long-term pretending that accommodation is compromising does not work. Avoiding is a lose-lose situation. As you pointed out, the cost-benefit analysis shows the individual yield of the relationship and its overall health/viability.
Henry wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 9:07 am
Yah, I also wondered if he might be gay. He said he isn’t. Bummer, I’d be more open to divorce in support of authenticity and integrity.
Noted to be aware of having alibis if he is out doing stupid things.
Yes, I also have wondered what else he may be doing and brought it up. He denied hookups, internet porn, online gambling, etc. But I am dealing with a known liar and chronic manipulator so there you go.
Of the choices as present, door number three is the most appealing. My post-retirement spouse is very push-pull. All I have to do is watch him grab onto both sides of the rope. I think I can disentangle myself from the rope and step outside of my box regardless of what he does.
Damn, you know how to make me belly laugh and feel better! I view this temporary homebase thing as more of having a housesitter. Once he retired, I insisted that he start helping with the cleaning, laundry, and yard work. He still, as recently as yesterday, pulls stuff like the “I’m out of Kleenex. (Subtext: I recycled the box but don’t want take a new one out of the cupboard. Can you do it for me?)” My prompt/reply was, “Where do we store the extra boxes?”
It is like living with an emotional seven year old who sometimes morphs into hormonal young teen. Neither are partner material. I don’t want to parent him either.
As you point out, I have possibilities. One of my edges is to go live in a Bruderhof settlement (The shirts are awful, but I have the hair.). It’s as likely as me learning to use a dating app to order up a dude who is young enough to be my son and has enough money for beer and pizza. Playing along: I think my spouse would see the picture, come up and dazzle 37 year with his people-pleasing persona, ask me if we can use paper plates, grab a couple slices and a beer, and scurry down to the bat cave.
J_ wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 3:19 pm
Congratulations to you and your spouse phasing out of your work roles into retiring towards. How does having your own business affect the process?
zbigi wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 4:56 am
Points taken. I can’t and won’t speak for @7w5. For me, the humor added some levity to a crushing situation. Though I am progressive, my marriage programming is quite conservative. I take my vow very seriously and won’t be doing any cheating. That’s not on my list of actual exploration possibilities, though I’m down to brainstorm.
Misogyny (in my marriage and in the US culture) is a thing, so the tongue-in-cheek scenario also challenges that. I appreciate you opening up the conversation that will continue on the Sexual Wheaton Table thread.
Sclass wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 8:40 am
I am so sorry to hear about your friend. Suicide can be such a shock. I hear your pain, trying to make sense of something avoidable that was not within your control and accepting the gravity of untreated mental illness. It sounds like your wife is a huge source of support for you now, as she has been during your time together. Your sum is greater than your two parts.
Ultimately, I have to ask for and accept the help I need. This is my responsibility as an adult. If someone brings up an issue, I need to engage if I choose to grow. I cannot expect someone to caretake me, nor do that to someone else. I don’t always feel strong but support certainly helps to bolster myself.
Yes, my spouse has developed mental health issues and refuses help. In the recent past, he has threatened multiple times to hurt himself (no plan, so it’s not actionable on my end, ran it by my counselor). That could be part of my apprehension to leave. Threats can also be a form of manipulation and emotional abuse. In the back of my mind, I wonder if he’ll be back when he leaves the house or what I may find after some time away. I know my son deals with this too. We’re not in control. It sucks.
With someone who is not willing to be responsible and compromise, accommodation surfaces. Yes, I participate in this. I strive to not deny or enable. It’s a tightrope. I am tired and exploring that 1st quadrant of win-win collaboration through a different lense. My actions to benefit myself and my son can be positive. And perhaps by participating less in whatever this dynamic is, my spouse realizes he’s willing to do the work to help himself. Or not. As you pointed out, slowly moving toward a target is necessary.
Ha, I hope the time at your parents was productive. DS and I are going to be at my mom’s next week to help out. Not sure how the hoard will be. My mom has interpreted my spouses non-attendance as confirmation that he hates her and numerous fortune-telling scenarios. I just don’t take the bait and say, “What did he say when you asked him directly?” Ugh, I was trained to tolerate dysfunction
, though I am no longer accepting new clients.
Oh, dear, that lense explains a lot of why my spouse gave the right answers. I was honest, trusting, and naive. “Passing” marriage counseling in my mind meant we were compatible and committed enough to make it work. There was fair warning that there would be challenges and that any time there was an issue, my spouse would want to use his family pattern of conflict/threatening divorce. In hindsight, I needed to take time to see how he actually dealt with conflict to verify his words matched his actions. Someone who had exactly the same values and dreams was too good to be true. The act disappeared by our wedding reception. Good grief.