How to start and run a Mastermind Group

[philipreal]

I would also be interested in joining/starting one!

[Jin+Guice]

but I think it's now understood that group meetings mainly benefit the extroverts (and perhaps especially the loudest extroverts).

I don't know if you mean ERE MMGs or group meetings in general but I don't think this is true of our group. I am kind of loud though (most extroverted introvert or most introverted extrovert) so, maybe I'm just the one doing all of the yelling .

I do like our MMG for the social aspect, but it's not like other socializing because 1) I feel like ERE people "get" me like no one else does and 2) we do actually talk about a group members thing every week. EREfest was similar for me although I am definitely one of the loudest people there (I get really excited).

I can't speak positively enough about our MMG and would recommend more people start them if they are wanted.

[delay]

This is after I shared with her that I have thoughts of doing a presentation about ere to my line manager.

Cool story, that made me laugh!

I'd like to start a Mastermind Group on procrastination but I keep delaying.

[AxelHeyst]

Guitarplayer and Philip, what are your goals/vision for being in an MMG? What would you want out of or to put into the activity? Are you interested in leveling up WLs? Getting brain help for projects? Accountability for ERE habit formation? Good Vibes from people who won’t judge you crazy for not spending all your income? To help you accomplish certain milestones? To dive deep on certain topics? Interested in a time limited or indefinite period of time group? Able to commit to attending regular video calls?

No wrong answers, with the exception that I generally think asynchronous text only indefinite time bound darknet MMGs are hererotelic to the ERE WoR (web of relationships).

The MMG I’m in is at capacity but I think it’d be great for another to form and I’m happy to help with the formation of one if I can.

I have a notion to offer to lead something like a “WL5>6 workshop” style MMG that would be time bound (eg 3 - 6 months), if enough people are interested, but that wouldn’t start for at least several months / late this year at the earliest.

[Mousse]

I have a notion to offer to lead something like a “WL5>6 workshop” style MMG that would be time bound (eg 3 - 6 months), if enough people are interested, but that wouldn’t start for at least several months / late this year at the earliest.

This sounds massively interesting, and the timeline sounds great.

[7Wannabe5]

DW diagnosed me with extroversion which has no way out because of lack of likeminded people.

This is after I shared with her that I have thoughts of doing a presentation about ere to my line manager.

Yeah, I can so relate. I would also note for the record that if I consider three interests of mine over the last decade or so that I have participated in this forum, ERE/Permaculture/Polyamory, I have by far been most likely to get thumped in my tertiary Fe by bringing up the topic of ERE in real world social settings. Virtually nobody objects to the concept of Permaculture, because can be translated down to "gardening with trees" and who doesn't like that? Quite a few people will lodge initial objections to concept of Polyamory, but most tend to be either won over or rendered more neutral on their take by some further explanations/arguments on my part, such as "it's really just an extension on how most people have a "work-wife" or "work-husband" these days or varied relationships with significant exes" and/or "If I utter the phrase, "I have a lover in Boston and another lover in Paris", can you honestly tell me there is no appeal?" However it has been my experience that many people experience the concept(s) of ERE, or my presentation of the concepts of ERE (especially if/when combined with adult development theory a la MHC/Kegan), as a form of personal attack.

I think it may be the case that the errors I am making in my presentation of ERE concepts to the general public and/or my more varied real life social inner circle of nerds might be related to the fact that as an XNtP in a group created by and primarily composed of towards INTJ types, I am both engaging in some easy productive growth work relating to INTX as The Scientist (Type 5), and some difficult, sometimes counter-productive growth work relating to XXTJ as The Judge (Type 1). IOW, because I sometimes visualize some of the more rigid "J"-like members of this forum as likely to sentence somebody to burn at the stake for the crime of occasionally eating a donut, I think some of this "judgey" vibe likely also comes across in my attempted presentation of the concepts, and because vibing "judgey" is not likely to lend itself to goal of social harmony (Fe), I have pretty much given up on attempting to promote the ERE concept to others. I also think this is especially frustrating to me, because most of the members of my real life inner social circle are very smart humans, so it seems to me like they are so close to the tipping point, but still I can't make the "sale."

This is also why I don't think it would be a good idea for me to join an MMG focused on "accountability." This would almost certainly devolve into a counter-productive "opposites attract and then attack" Ti vs. Te death match situation for me. What would be more helpful for me at this juncture would be help with introverting Ne -> Ni rather than my much easier move of Ne-> Ti. IOW, an MMG would be most helpful for me as a means by which to be nudged back towards focus on my own longer term Vision which is recognized to not be entirely within ERE Vision. I mean I think it is fairly easy to recognize that for anybody who is a global thinker, Te form accountability does not make great sense absent unifying Vision. Maybe roughly the difference between "randomly exploring the hiking park and constructing a map as you go" vs. "hiking up the mountain to see if there is a beach on the other side."

[jacob]

Yeah, I can so relate. I would also note for the record that if I consider three interests of mine over the last decade or so that I have participated in this forum, ERE/Permaculture/Polyamory, I have by far been most likely to get thumped in my tertiary Fe by bringing up the topic of ERE in real world social settings. Virtually nobody objects to the concept of Permaculture, because can be translated down to "gardening with trees" and who doesn't like that? Quite a few people will lodge initial objections to concept of Polyamory, but most tend to be either won over or rendered more neutral on their take by some further explanations/arguments on my part, such as "it's really just an extension on how most people have a "work-wife" or "work-husband" these days or varied relationships with significant exes" and/or "If I utter the phrase, "I have a lover in Boston and another lover in Paris", can you honestly tell me there is no appeal?" However it has been my experience that many people experience the concept(s) of ERE, or my presentation of the concepts of ERE (especially if/when combined with adult development theory a la MHC/Kegan), as a form of personal attack.

I don't have a treatment to this [difference] as much as a diagnosis. For permaculture and polyamory, you're presenting something that the audience likely doesn't have but could have if they were so inclined. Here they can simply reject the desire without any blows to their ego. Whereas with ERE, you're presenting a more efficient, more effective, and objectively better version of something they already have. This implies that they "could do better" than they're currently doing. Adding in MHC/Kegan compounds that be insinuating that not only could they do better, the reason they're not doing better is that they also need to be better. Not just different, but better, because there's a scaled ranking.

It's the difference between HAS and IS that makes people defensive. Note that the most appealing parts about ERE/FIRE is always something people can HAVE such as money, travel, freedom, ... And the most unappealing parts about ERE/FIRE are things that require changing who/what they are or value in order to have it. It gets worse when Kegan suggests it's due to immaturity and MHC suggests it's due to depth of comprehension or lack thereof. Children will accept this [ranking], perhaps only because the believe that these shortcomings will eventually be made up to them simply by getting older. Adults, however, almost all believe that they as well as every other adult is fully developed and differences between how they're doing are only a matter of opinion. And now here comes the missionary claiming that not only are they not acting like grown-ups, they haven't actually grown up fully, relatively speaking anyway.

In addition, there may be a problem with the messenger that extend to the message itself. INTJs tend to vibe "I'm smarter than you and I know it" often w/o even being aware of it or at least being innately unable to subconsciously consider the fact that this affects someone else's Fe. Try as we may but for an INTJ that [vibe] is almost impossible to switch off. ERE+MHC (a kind of INTJ weapons technology) just provides ammo for this vibe and makes it all the stronger. There's little people can say in terms of Se, Si, Fi, or Fe that will stand up to this kind of argument.

The best way I've found is to not have the argument in the first place. "Show, don't tell". When you see me talking about ERE, it is only because I was asked. I no longer actively put myself out there except to prevent misinformation from being compounded.

Very likely a better way can be found. I just don't have the personality to naturally vibe along. All I know is to try to curb my natural instincts and not necessarily win every argument just because I can.

[bos]

@7Wannabe5 Polyamory is discussed and practiced rather frequent where I am located. What I miss in those discussion is older people. All cool when you're 26 and juggling 4 chicks, but such discussions get interesting if you bring solid experience to table. The "show, don’t tell" approach would add a lot of depth to those conversations.

I would be interested in a MMG. Europe ERE fest gave me plenty to think about. I tried to explain ERE a few times to friends and colleagues, but it's difficult to explain or I might need to work on my pitch. The moment you mention "financial independence," people get excited, have heard about it etc, but as soon as you bring up frugality and self-sufficiency, it goes like:

"It's a strategy to financial independence."
"Oh, cool! I don’t want to work!"
"…by being extremely frugal and developing skill self-sufficiency."
"Like cleaning my own house and fixing my bike? Nah, I’m good."

Still figuring out how to bridge that gap. Guess I need to work on the "show, don’t tell" approach too—just like the poly dude.

[7Wannabe5]

INTJs tend to vibe "I'm smarter than you and I know it" often w/o even being aware of it or at least being innately unable to subconsciously consider the fact that this affects someone else's Fe. Try as we may but for an INTJ that [vibe] is almost impossible to switch off. ERE+MHC (a kind of INTJ weapons technology) just provides ammo for this vibe and makes it all the stronger. There's little people can say in terms of Se, Si, Fi, or Fe that will stand up to this kind of argument.

I agree that it is difficult to present argument in relationship to high functioning, well-meaning INTJs such as yourself and many other members of this forum. However, it is pretty easy to hook my Fe on to my NeTi and present rational argument related to obvious examples of low-functioning INTJ types run amok such as may be found in "Game of Thrones" or "Current Headlines U.S. News." For example, I can acknowledge that over the extreme long run, the greatest risk to the survival of humanity would be the extinction of the Sun, but still rationally object to the "minor sacrifice" of allowing a relatively smaller group of humans die from malaria this month, because not in best super-modern alignment with efficient, effective trial launch of next rocket. The most rational argument against narrow focus long-term strategic thinking is that even the most intelligent predictors are sometimes just-wrong or weak-form-selfishly-motivated, so some balance of bias towards the current "good" is warranted. IOW, I would evoke the deep, global level of wisdom available in "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

Anyways, yeah, I thoroughly agree with your take on why my efforts to promote ERE are likely failing. However, since "concept promotion" is one of my eNTP purposes, and I also believe that we are already at least ankle deep in the profoundly serious global problems ERE might serve to address, I am motivated to return to the drawing board on this problem of promotion at some juncture. Particularly, because it is already pretty clear to me that some of my previous attempts were borderline obnoxious. Roughly akin to communicating, "If you are spending more than 12k per year, then you are a member of the global elite and definitely part of the problem." and then further defending this stance with the weapon of math. Clearly, I was well deserving of a pummeling in my Fe for communicating in such a tone-deaf fashion.

OTOH, the problem I have with "show rather than tell" is that I don't prefer to suffer under such a burden of popular aesthetics. I mean there are aspects of my semi-ERE lifestyle that could form an attractive photo spread, but also many other aspects which I highly value that would be towards hard fail in that regard. And this would even be true for me in terms of presentation to the core ERE group itself, since I am of a less well-represented type. If I think of some presentations more in alignment with "having" rather than 'being", it seems to me that "savings" as "venture capital fund" and/or "non-profit backing" could generalize the appeal more towards those who are less risk-averse and those who are more engaged in extending care in the moment. For example, there is no part of me that would tell my 20 year old self or my 60 year old self that "working for corporation 40 hr job and investing in stock market" is better plan for me than "starting my own lifestyle business", even though I readily acknowledge that it is a riskier more complex undertaking, and "lifestyle business" is a much easier sell than "stock market investment" to many at Level Green even though both are reliant on capitalism. It would just require ripping out one section from ERE and shoving in a new section inclusive of charts related to the extension and independent over-lap of "lifestyle business" S-Curves, and also likely an extension into Level Yellow via Intellectual Capital/Royalties/Patents, etc. etc. I don't think it is wrong to attempt to sell other adults pathways more likely to fail, as long as you are clear in your communication about this reality. As in, "Here is the staircase. Here is the roller-coaster. Here is the roulette wheel. You choose."

[7Wannabe5]

Polyamory is discussed and practiced rather frequent where I am located. What I miss in those discussion is older people. All cool when you're 26 and juggling 4 chicks, but such discussions get interesting if you bring solid experience to table. The "show, don’t tell" approach would add a lot of depth to those conversations.

Well, this kind of goes both ways, because I am "out" as polyamorous to my family and inner friend circle, inclusive of my Millennial and Gen Z adult children and nieces and nephews and some of their friends, and I might summarize the younger generation's response to such a revelation on my part as I think this reaction is due to the fact that "polyamory" is regarded as a towards edgy, hipster practice and as my DD33 has repeatedly noted, I do not in anyway vibe "edgy hipster" or even "slightly cool" , even though her father/my ex and a good many of my other friends and partners do. In fact, one of the edgy hipsters I dated for a few months also dated one of my daughter's best friends who also practices polyamory, which would be towards the deeply disturbing for me if it weren't for the fact that this particular friend of hers was also sneaking out of the house at night to meet much older BF when she was 15, engaged to some Romanian dude she met hitchhiking across Europe when she was 19, married to a bi-sexual male artist when they was 28, divorced from him at age 32, etc. etc. IOW, enough of the same type as me (although also clearly more overtly edgy hipster) to transcend the age difference.

Anyways, the obvious huge problem with attempting to sell "polyamory" as a 26 year old guy juggling 4 chicks is that everybody will believe that you are actually just practicing old school promiscuity, but you don't realize this yet because you haven't had the experience of being in a long-term marriage or similar relationship. I also sometimes get that when I am writing about the topic, but much less frequently in real life, because chubby middle-aged woman wearing gardening overalls and reading glasses mended with duct tape is not in alignment with anybody's stereotype of "promiscuity." I think the most positive response I've ever gotten was from a few middle-aged, African-American, female members of my water aerobics group, who were totally like "You go, girl!" and laughingwith me about it. For some reason, I would say that my male age/social peers are the most likely to hard-flip on their opinion on the practice. Maybe kind of along the lines of "I'll believe it when I see it." The group most likely to reject the practice outright would be the young male incel types, because they think it contributes to inequality in sexual marketplace, because they are ideologically blocked to the simple math that would dispel their illogic. Fortunately, I very rarely encounter young male incel types in real life.